OOO wait that last post may not have been PC to all that were offended Sorry you must be a Toyota owner too...
Toyota accelerator problems
- Thread starter Jack Straw
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
![[Hearth.com] Toyota accelerator problems](/talk/data/attachments/26/26571-1c33d38180fcf0335929edf4da9c8882.jpg?hash=FWKKotG7wH)
![[Hearth.com] Toyota accelerator problems](/talk/data/attachments/26/26572-bcb512a9407b110b0b4e6d664412ea63.jpg?hash=sCpUo4_WpS)
MR2 owner and general Toyota car nut here...
WRT: Where they're built - they're engineered in Japan for the most part and they're built in the US or Japan. The J ones have always been a little more stupid than the 4 (American) VIN ones, we always chalked it up to the salt bath and remaining radioactivity.
The problem is the ECU goes ballistic when the contacts are shorted in the accelerator. All gripes to the effect of "Fly By Wire Sucks" are 100% correct. Specifically for the prius, newer models will let you shift into N, older models will not.
The thing that honestly scares me, Toyota bashing aside, is that these pedals are not used exclusively in toyota - GMs have a lot in common with Toyotas. Will we see GMs buy it in the future or what?
Anyway, I drive a 1992 Camry and a 1991-and-a-half MR2. They don't have ABS, they don't have stupid computers pissing around with the engine, and I don't mind a bit.
WRT: Where they're built - they're engineered in Japan for the most part and they're built in the US or Japan. The J ones have always been a little more stupid than the 4 (American) VIN ones, we always chalked it up to the salt bath and remaining radioactivity.
The problem is the ECU goes ballistic when the contacts are shorted in the accelerator. All gripes to the effect of "Fly By Wire Sucks" are 100% correct. Specifically for the prius, newer models will let you shift into N, older models will not.
The thing that honestly scares me, Toyota bashing aside, is that these pedals are not used exclusively in toyota - GMs have a lot in common with Toyotas. Will we see GMs buy it in the future or what?
Anyway, I drive a 1992 Camry and a 1991-and-a-half MR2. They don't have ABS, they don't have stupid computers pissing around with the engine, and I don't mind a bit.
Tiber, I drive a 2000 Taurus wagon. OK, but nothing special; I bought it because it was the right price at the right time. If Toyotas hadn't been so expensive I'd have probably bought one of those.
Toyota makes a fabulous car. Just the way Juki owns the commercial sewing machine market. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one tomorrow if I had the money and was in the market for new car! NO wait, I'd be more likely to look at Hyundai.
Toyota makes a fabulous car. Just the way Juki owns the commercial sewing machine market. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one tomorrow if I had the money and was in the market for new car! NO wait, I'd be more likely to look at Hyundai.
Most people's natural reaction in mechanical failure is to hit the brakes. Which can be deadly in many situations. Our driving courses are a joke in this country. The driving out on the highway reflects that. Add on top of it that many car owners don't understand how their vehicles think/work. Peak Oil should solve a good portion of it.
I've had two potentionally disastrous mechanical failures on the interstate with my semi. One steering axle tire blowout and one Turbo go out. The only reason I didn't hit anyone or lose my cummins motor was because I was prepared. (not hitting brakes on blowout) and (keeping RPMs down while trying to kill the motor before it burns all the oil in the motor up)
I won't pretend to know what happened in these Toyota cars. But the difference between living and dying are split seconds and part of being a good operator of any machinery is knowledge/preparation.
I've had two potentionally disastrous mechanical failures on the interstate with my semi. One steering axle tire blowout and one Turbo go out. The only reason I didn't hit anyone or lose my cummins motor was because I was prepared. (not hitting brakes on blowout) and (keeping RPMs down while trying to kill the motor before it burns all the oil in the motor up)
I won't pretend to know what happened in these Toyota cars. But the difference between living and dying are split seconds and part of being a good operator of any machinery is knowledge/preparation.
I don't think many people consider driving a car to be operating machinery, nor are there many who take much pride in operating that machinery safely, efficiently, or properly or understanding how it works. Cars are so easy to operate that people forget that they are operating a complex machine.
Upon entering the 805 freeway in San Diego CA in circa 1988, the long sweeping entrance ramp was calling. Driving a heavily built '73 Challenger didn't help. Kicked that mother for all she had and @@@BOING@@@ - there goes the throttle return spring (as I found out later). With gas pedal stuck flat to the floor and accelerating at the speed of an F14 in full afterburners I was WELL over 100mph before I could get my foot under the pedal and lifted off the floor. There was no "reaching down" at those speeds, one slight over correction and it would have been all done. Thank you mechanical connection. I can attest that in the first few moments of that "what the hell" experience, you will still be calculating your best move. Panic can/will set in. Dunno about the guy driving around for 20 min. That one is hard to explain.
Note: that car has since been fitted with TWO return springs.
Jags - someone who has been in a stuck throttle position approaching 130+ MPH.
Note: that car has since been fitted with TWO return springs.
Jags - someone who has been in a stuck throttle position approaching 130+ MPH.
Just ask Adam Petty or Kenny Irwin Jr about stuck throttles. Both professional drivers who died due to stuck throttle. That must have been a terrifying demise for them.
One of the motor mounts broke allowing the engine to lift and pull the throttle linkage wide open on my old flatbed sending it up a friend of mine's driveway toward his neighbor's car. I got it to stop by putting the clutch in. The brakes would never have stopped it. Once the clutch was in, the engine fell back down and the throttle closed. Pretty scary a couple seconds. If I had 20 minutes on an interstate it would have been a little less hair raising.
One of the motor mounts broke allowing the engine to lift and pull the throttle linkage wide open on my old flatbed sending it up a friend of mine's driveway toward his neighbor's car. I got it to stop by putting the clutch in. The brakes would never have stopped it. Once the clutch was in, the engine fell back down and the throttle closed. Pretty scary a couple seconds. If I had 20 minutes on an interstate it would have been a little less hair raising.
I purposely tried an experiment with my 2004 Prius on the way home yesterday. Got it up to 65 on the interstate and tapped the shift stalk left to the 'N' position. Gas engine shut down immediately and it coasted to a stop. The biggest defective part these Toyotas have is the boob sitting behind the wheel. This guy could yak on the cell phone but not give the tiny gearshift stalk a tap to the left??? Darwin may be disappointed that this one lived.
PAJerry said:
Great post. Ability to yak on phone while driving was a well practiced skill apparently.
mayhem said:
Did the experiment in my Silverado last night. Straight line, going about 50 on a flat grade, matted the gas pedal, throttle kicked down and I got close to 60...kpet my right foot planted and stepped hard on the brake pedal. The engine did not shut down, it just kept right on running at WOT...meanwhile the brakes hauled the truck right down to a dead stop, no problem, no drama...a bit further than normally takes to stop but it was not an extraordinary distance at all..it was less than if I had it loaded up near the GVWR. Brakes easily overcame the motor's max output, and its a 3/4 ton truck with a 6.0 V-8 in proper running condition. Didn't even have to stand on the brake pedal either...it was very easy.
mayhem said:
I did this same test with my skate board last night. One foot pushing for all I had, with the other in full brake position. It did not yield the results I was expecting. At first I started to go in circles then it flipped me straight off the dang thing. I believe the board is defect.
mayhem said:
While this might work in the Audi and the Chevy, my understanding is that the Prius has a more complex braking system. Under light braking regenerative braking is used, which is when the electric motors become generators, charge the batteries, and the resistance is used to slow the car. When more braking is needed, conventional hydraulic brakes are applied. All of this is, of course controlled by the computer. Maybe all this makes it a little more complicated than just standing on the brake pedal?
I think the next recall should include installation of one of these.
![[Hearth.com] Toyota accelerator problems](/talk/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F3665583%2F2%2Fistockphoto_3665583-emergency-stop-button.jpg&hash=e68877d293cffe35e5edf83fab68cff0 "[Hearth.com] Toyota accelerator problems")
^^ True enough, but the Prius issue is just a small fraction of whats going on here...conventional, non-hybrid Toyota models like Tunrdas and Camrys are experiencing unrequested WOT. The brakes on any given car should be of sufficient swept area to overcome the maximum power a car's engine can put out.
Car and Driver did a test of this a month or so ago, Camry V-6 running at WOT at 100mph slowed to 0 with the throttle floored and it took about 30% more rom than with the throttle closed, but it stopped by standing on the brake pedal.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept
Car and Driver did a test of this a month or so ago, Camry V-6 running at WOT at 100mph slowed to 0 with the throttle floored and it took about 30% more rom than with the throttle closed, but it stopped by standing on the brake pedal.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept
Flatbedford said:
If you like the feel of big 4 wheel discs and loathe ABS, this system will drive you crazy. Pretty cool though and works very well.
Flatbedford said:mayhem said:
While this might work in the Audi and the Chevy, my understanding is that the Prius has a more complex braking system. Under light braking regenerative braking is used, which is when the electric motors become generators, charge the batteries, and the resistance is used to slow the car. When more braking is needed, conventional hydraulic brakes are applied. All of this is, of course controlled by the computer. Maybe all this makes it a little more complicated than just standing on the brake pedal?
I think the next recall should include installation of one of these.
Nah . . . the next recall should install one of these on the Prius . . . then we'll see just how good gas mileage they get . . . on the flip side . . . it should stop them pretty darn quickly.
Attachments
![[Hearth.com] Toyota accelerator problems](/talk/data/attachments/26/26626-f42cc48ab622aeaabcc538db51d666f1.jpg?hash=eALjldmRDL)
A very interesting read, you guys. Esp. the "real life" experiments which make me feel a lot better about automotive engineering in general.
We all know Kenny is the best driver in the group. That goes without saying, though.
Row., many many moons ago I held a "commercial light" license. I could drive a two axle vehicle up to a certain weight. I drove buses basically school bus size (without the school bus certification). They were all "cab over" design and the steering axle was behind my seat. We were told to report to the big parking lot one day when there was 2-3" of snow on it. We got the bus up to about 30-ish mph and slammed on the brakes. Lesson? better to have a basic clue about how a vehicle reacts in adverse conditions than not. And better to experience it in a vacant parking lot than out on the road with 60+ passengers and a lot of other vehicles. It was scarey, but it also gave us the chance to see how forgiving the bus could be! Keep both hands on the wheel. What driving a bus taught me at 20 yrs. old was that drving requires your full attention and the priviledge is not a god-given right of passage at age 16. The bigger and more powerful the vehicle the longer it takes to stop it... think about that the next time you come hurtling out of the on ramp "chute" and cut off a bus or a semi (anyone else for that matter) because you never bothered to learn what "yield" means or that it applies to you, too.
I also recommend taking a Defensive Driving course (stop rolling your eyes). They're actually fun and they can save you money on your insurance premiums and help you out if you have "moving violations" against your driver's license. A lot of the stuff is kind of dull, but a lot of it is interesting, too!
We all know Kenny is the best driver in the group. That goes without saying, though.
Row., many many moons ago I held a "commercial light" license. I could drive a two axle vehicle up to a certain weight. I drove buses basically school bus size (without the school bus certification). They were all "cab over" design and the steering axle was behind my seat. We were told to report to the big parking lot one day when there was 2-3" of snow on it. We got the bus up to about 30-ish mph and slammed on the brakes. Lesson? better to have a basic clue about how a vehicle reacts in adverse conditions than not. And better to experience it in a vacant parking lot than out on the road with 60+ passengers and a lot of other vehicles. It was scarey, but it also gave us the chance to see how forgiving the bus could be! Keep both hands on the wheel. What driving a bus taught me at 20 yrs. old was that drving requires your full attention and the priviledge is not a god-given right of passage at age 16. The bigger and more powerful the vehicle the longer it takes to stop it... think about that the next time you come hurtling out of the on ramp "chute" and cut off a bus or a semi (anyone else for that matter) because you never bothered to learn what "yield" means or that it applies to you, too.
I also recommend taking a Defensive Driving course (stop rolling your eyes). They're actually fun and they can save you money on your insurance premiums and help you out if you have "moving violations" against your driver's license. A lot of the stuff is kind of dull, but a lot of it is interesting, too!
In addition to the defensive driving course, I recommend spending some time behind the wheel of big truck, or at least in the passenger seat of one. Makes you think about driving and traffic in ways you never would have otherwise.
Flatbedford said:
The stories I've heard from my wood cutting buddy/truck driver amaze me . . . such as the time(s) he has folks fail to yield when coming on to the highway from the on-ramp . . . told me one time the car cut so close in front of him that he momentarily lost view of the car as it was blocked by the nose of the truck . . . talk about being a little too close for comfort.
Jack Straw said:
My first thought when hearing about this was "what better way to substantiate a (false) claim against Toyota and have a little fun at the same time without actually crashing" . Maybe this guy just wanted his entitlement to the 80 plus class action lawsuits already filed against Toyota and others. Pedal to the metal!
- Status
Similar threads
