Total creosote clog and CHIMNEY FIRE: THREE WEEKS after brand-new install?!

[Toba Guy]

Don't worry about me sticking with you guys, this is more than I could ask for!

Tested the thermometer: when the oven is at 300 F thermo says 400 F, when the oven is at 450 F thermo says 500 F.
So obviously not too accurate. Time for a new thermometer, stove-top specific probably wouldn't be a bad idea either. Suggestions?

It was smaller splits and a few pieces of small scrap 2x4 that I burnt for the test. (I had just split a bunch of previously split pieces to do the moisture test.)

I'm taking the moisture meter over to my brother-in-laws place to test it on some green wood he cut this fall.

I'll repeat the burn test tomorrow with some larger pieces, with the thermo in the top left-hand corner of the griddle. I'll let you know the results.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[begreen]

Condar stove top thermometers:
http://www.condar.com/Stovetop_Thermometers.html

 

[TheRambler]

I think its fairly easy to get pine and hemlock(all i have experience) with down to 12ish%. After just 6 months of seasoning i have a cord of mixed eastern white pine and eastern hemlock that measures 14-17%. So i don't find it really odd that he could have moisture readings as low as he says. Resplit a few that i have had inside in the basement for a few weeks and i am getting 12-14%.

 

[TheRambler]

It might be worth picking up a cheap IR therm too, can be had at lots of hardware stores for 20-40 bucks

 

[Oldman47]

There is a link to chart somewhere on the site, whereby you can measure resistance through the wood with an ohm meter, then convert the resistance to a %MC value. Might be good for verifying your moisture meter readings.

The method is described here https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/using-a-multimeter-to-measure-wood-moisture-level.40033/ it is a pinned topic in the wood shed.

 

[branchburner]

It might be worth picking up a cheap IR therm too, can be had at lots of hardware stores for 20-40 bucks

Yup, and a nice thing about the IR gun is you can take temps at multiple spots on both stove and flue, in case any spots run a bit hotter or cooler.

I like having both the gun and the magnetic, but if I had to choose only one it would be the gun.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

We see lots of posts about "can't get my secondary tubes to light off". The idea that there has to be active flame there for it to be working is flawed.

Flawed in what way?

 

[Sodbuster]

Thanks for the help Jags.

Forgot to mention, that before the flue was cleaned, the installer came and removed the flue-damper. So that is no longer part of the equation.

The wood is air-dried, and was at room temperature for a week before the moisture-meter reading. Does this mean I have extremely dry wood, or a faulty moisture-meter? It is a digital one, from Lee Valley Tools, Chesnut tools brand.

Did the test you suggested, here were the results:

- during start-up, could feel the negative pressure establish itself (subtle pressure on my head), the furnace was running at the same time. So I opened the window next to the stove wide-open through-out. This also noticeably increased the draft as well. (We're in the process of getting a separate combustion air for the furnace, and fresh-air intake for the basement).

- followed your instructions exactly, once it was up to 600 F turned the primary air all the way down, then back up 5-10%, it continued to climb, so I took it down to absolute minimum on the primary air, it stabilized at 700 F.

- thick black smoke at 400, 500, 600, 650 F: so now I'm questioning either the thermometer or the wood. Does placement of the thermometer matter? I've got it on the stove-top, between the top-loading door and the pipe.


Thanks again.

Something is not adding up, I've never seen thick black smoke coming from a wood stove chimney, unless your burning tire's I think it's a fuel issue.

 

[DougA]

I've never seen thick black smoke coming from a wood stove chimney,

Sometimes light grey smoke can appear black depending upon the sky conditions you are viewing it against. I agree, if it was indeed black, that is troubling.

 

[Toba Guy]

So went to my brother's place and measured some 1.5 years seasoned poplar he had, was at 18% on the moisture meter. And a piece from a dying elm he took down this fall was at 34%.

So looks like the moisture meter is accurate, that pine was actually 9 - 12 %. So what does this extreme dryness mean to the situation as a whole? Adds weight to the excess gases condensating theory?

 

[Toba Guy]

Tomorrow I'll repeat the test-burn scenario, one time with scrap, another with some of that poplar I got from my brother. See if the black smoke still appears.

 

[TheRambler]

Your scrap is untreated wood, right?

 

[Jags]

Flawed in what way?

The tubes don't have to be rolling flames to be working.

To the OP - running scraps isn't really a good test fire. Grab a stove load from your brother of the real honest to goodness cordwood fuel. Good old fashion normal sized splits. Scraps should be used for kindling when starting a cold stove. Not loading a stove.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Could there be a problem with his secondary burn tubes? Just a thought?.

 

[Jags]

Could there be a problem with his secondary burn tubes? Just a thought?.

Sure - but on the IR they are a pretty basic config. There could also be issues with the baffle, but I think we need to nail down the operation of the unit. I don't think problems with the tubes or baffle can explain a clogged chimney in 3 weeks.

 

[Babaganoosh]

I figured bad wood and a bad secondary could create all that black smoke and creosote. Plus he's a new burner running the stove too cold.


Gonna watch this thread for the eventual answer.

 

[Jags]

I figured bad wood and a bad secondary could create all that black smoke and creosote.

I wouldn't rule it out....

 

[jatoxico]

So went to my brother's place and measured some 1.5 years seasoned poplar he had, was at 18% on the moisture meter. And a piece from a dying elm he took down this fall was at 34%.

So looks like the moisture meter is accurate, that pine was actually 9 - 12 %. So what does this extreme dryness mean to the situation as a whole? Adds weight to the excess gases condensating theory?

Branchburner already mentioned but I'll repeat it. We have had poster's describe heavy smoke from very dry wood due to excessive outgassing. So to ans your question, yes that's where I'm leaning anyway. Curious how long your burn cycle is?

I don't want to confuse the situation by suggesting this and that, but between the pretty high temps you hit with air shut down and "black" smoke it makes sense that very dry pine could do just what you're seeing. Follow Jag's advise and get a different load of wood. Might help to "time" the load and the temps (e.g. hit 600 ten minutes etc) and total burn time. Pic's of the load would be good too.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

The tubes don't have to be rolling flames to be working.
.

Actually I would think that seeing flames around the secondary air tubes is about the only visible indication you can have that they are working to some degree. Without seeing actual flames you are likely just adding additional fresh air to the chimney exhaust much like a hole in flue would, or if you left the stove door open.
Of course if the goal is to add additional fresh air to the chimney exhaust, then I guess you could say that they are working effectively regardless of the lack of visible flames.

 

[Jags]

Actually I would think that seeing flames around the secondary air tubes is about the only visible indication you can have that they are working to some degree.

Thats the point. Just because you can't see it working doesn't mean that it is not working.

 

[maple1]

Branchburner already mentioned but I'll repeat it. We have had poster's describe heavy smoke from very dry wood due to excessive outgassing. So to ans your question, yes that's where I'm leaning anyway. Curious how long your burn cycle is?

I don't want to confuse the situation by suggesting this and that, but between the pretty high temps you hit with air shut down and "black" smoke it makes sense that very dry pine could do just what you're seeing. Follow Jag's advise and get a different load of wood. Might help to "time" the load and the temps (e.g. hit 600 ten minutes etc) and total burn time. Pic's of the load would be good too.

Or just put a small load of the same pine. Start small, as they say. It is very plausible that it could be excessive outgassing from a big load of very dry pine.

 

[j7art2]

You need a fresh air intake in your basement. Of this, I am nearly 100% confident. You can verify this simply by running a thermometer on your flue pipe. If your flue temperatures are not at over 300dF, you will get creosote. No if's, and's or but's about it.

I had a friend who just got a brand new Yukon Eagle, and had an 80% clog and nearly had a chimney fire himself. He spent over $7000 on the unit after install, and was furious at the creosote monster it was. Yukon would not discuss ANY fine tuning of the unit until he installed a fresh air intake. $40 later, and all of his problems were gone.

I did the same with my 40 year old dinosaur. I have since seen an increase in efficiency as well. If you have a basement, you have negative pressure in the basement, and are not getting enough oxygen unless you have a window open. Even in a 120 year old house, his basement was too air tight.

 

[jatoxico]

Or just put a small load of the same pine. Start small, as they say. It is very plausible that it could be excessive outgassing from a big load of very dry pine.

Sure, or find a couple splits of semi/unseasoned hardwood as a mix in wood. That's easy this time of year . Just didn't want to confuse things, I'm confused enough-

 

[Jags]

You need a fresh air intake in your basement.

If his stove temps continued to rise until the primary air was shut down to zero, I doubt if adding additional air is going to solve his issue. It sounds like draft is a non issue at this point, unless I am missing something (possible).

 

[Isaac Carlson]

The one thing that got me in the original post was the mention of 2" insulated pipe. WHY is there 2" pipe on a wood burning stove and WHAT is it made of that it smells like plastic burning? That stove should have a 6" insulated chimney. Pics are needed here or a very good description of the pipe.