2 rows deep on pallets. uncovered. positioned north to south to take advantage of prevailing westerly winds here in ohio. at 10-13 months my customers like the dryness i achieve.
Too many rows to season well??
- Thread starter NorthEast Allnighter
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
LLigetfa said:
+1 . . . on both the opinion on drying time and the way you and I both season and stack our wood -- 2 rows on pallets for the first year and then packed in wicked tight in Year 2 for use in Year 3.
NorthEast Allnighter said:
Seems like a good charge of wood you've gone through so far. Is your basement insulated or are you heating concrete walls? If so it would be a wise investment to somehow insulate your concrete walls IMHO. Also if you could store a cord of wood in the basement it would dry out very quickly! That has saved me the last 2 years. It's always a question of space though. I learned from this forum to put fans on it and it's amazing how fast it will dry especially with you having the wood stove going in the basement(my basement is usually around 55-60 deg.). I'm burning Red Oak right now that was alive and healthy and cut down on July 4th weekend(not smart 95 deg and humid), split sometime in July, and brought in the basement in Sept. That Oak is currently at 18-23% depending on the size of the split.
Blue Vomit said:
IMHO, a truly silly idea. For me, any wood that might be called on this season is top-covered, and other high-value stuff as tarps are available. If you check out how lumber mills handle air-drying of their product, you'll find few stacks air-drying out in the open. Wanna gue$$ why?
Moisture that can be driven out, can just as easily be driven back in. There's no check-valve there.
I don't think a split is like a sponge per say. Surface water is not sucked right in if that was the case the first time a tarp flew off in the wind I would be screwed.
Surface water evaporates before any real measurable amount is absorbed due to wind etc. Now surface water trapped under a tarp totally different story.
I think air flow and surface area is what is important (RH as well).
If you have a stack 5'x5'x5' and cover the top and say 12" down the sides you are taking 45sqft of surface area away. Now if it rains every other day in you climate I would cover but keep at least 12" of air space at the top.
Just my thoughts
X
Surface water evaporates before any real measurable amount is absorbed due to wind etc. Now surface water trapped under a tarp totally different story.
I think air flow and surface area is what is important (RH as well).
If you have a stack 5'x5'x5' and cover the top and say 12" down the sides you are taking 45sqft of surface area away. Now if it rains every other day in you climate I would cover but keep at least 12" of air space at the top.
Just my thoughts
X
CTYank said:
Do you have any evidence to back that up? The guys on here that actually do test the hygroscopic properties of firewood do see a slight spike in the MC after precipitation, which quickly dissipates.
The basement is not insulated, concrete walls. I just moved in last year so everything is still a project. One of the next ones will be to finish the basement which will be insulated. Im wondering if I should load up on maple and other types of wood besides oak and c/s/s it by spring so it will be ready by winter. then i could leave all the oak i have to season for an extra year.
NorthEast Allnighter said:
If you have the option to do this then yes. I am burning a lot of different stuff that was c/s/s by spring of last year.
Last summer was very dry which helped a ton.
maple1
Minister of Fire
My experiences:
-Stacking tight multiple rows will lead to the inside of the stack(s) not drying as much as the outside. There is no way the inside of the pile gets the same air movement & sun as the outside.
-Uncovered piles will accumulate ice in the middle over the winter months from freezing/thawing cycles. Not recommended if pulling & burning from to burn, and also leads to slower drying when spring/summer comes.
How much that affects your situation depends on your situation - local conditions may vary.
-Stacking tight multiple rows will lead to the inside of the stack(s) not drying as much as the outside. There is no way the inside of the pile gets the same air movement & sun as the outside.
-Uncovered piles will accumulate ice in the middle over the winter months from freezing/thawing cycles. Not recommended if pulling & burning from to burn, and also leads to slower drying when spring/summer comes.
How much that affects your situation depends on your situation - local conditions may vary.
ironworker
Burning Hunk
You will be fine I stacked this 4 pallets deep and it seasoned fine, moisture will leave wood no matter how it's stacked, most of the stuff you read here is theory and speculation.
![[Hearth.com] Too many rows to season well??](/talk/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi812.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz41%2Fgreyfox02%2Fdecember2010001.jpg&hash=d6b08008f40c327bfcdde6c46f293d3f "[Hearth.com] Too many rows to season well??")
maple1
Minister of Fire
My input is not theory or speculation - it is from observation and real world. All else being equal, the inside of a large pile will dry slower in the middle. If the pile will be there long enough for the middle to eventually dry enough, then it is a moot point. But if someone wants their wood to dry as fast as possible, or wants it to take as little time as it will, then they should pile in single rows. Also, I see a lot of loose piled wood there - that will also dry faster in the middle than a pile tightly & uniformly stacked.
NorthEast Allnighter said:
Welcome to the forum Dave.
So how to stack the wood? First off, we give oak 3 years before burning. Some folks seem to get by with 2 years and it can be done but that extra year will make a huge difference in how it burns. I think especially in your area as you tend to get more humidity and rain so I'd recommend 3 years on that oak.
I'll be among the first ones to say if you need wood dried quickly then stack it in single rows but stack it out where it will get wind. Sun and hot weather are nice but wind is the most important for drying. Also it is extremely important to stack the wood off the ground.
Yet, here is how we stack our wood:
(broken image removed)
You will notice this wood is stacked 3 rows deep. We stack approximately 4 1/2' high and leave it uncovered until fall or early winter when we then cover only the top of the stacks and we cover with old galvanized roofing. It works great. We've also stacked in more than 3 rows deep.
(broken image removed)
Most of that wood stack was not burned until it had been stacked for over 5 years and most was burned after 6 or 7 years. It burned just fine.
Here is a puzzler: Most say you have to stack in single rows because those center rows will not dry. However, as stated, we stack our wood 4 1/2' high and by the end of the summer it is almost always 4' high and sometimes less. This is simply because of the moisture coming out of the wood. But wait
It is not just those outside rows that shrink down to 4' high. The center rows shrink at the same rate as the outside rows! So how can they be losing moisture at a lesser rate? It appears to me that the moisture is about the same in all the rows. The same thing happens if we stack 10 rows deep. Those center rows seem to dry just fine. I think the big key is keeping the wood off the ground (notice the poles under our stacks) and also having the wind hit the sides of the wood stacks. Many times we stack wood where it gets little sunshine but is seems to dry just fine.
Again though, it really depends upon the type of wood you have for what time it needs to dry enough to burn right. Also in your area it might pay to top cover the wood soon after stacking it because of the amount of rain you sometimes get.
red oak
Minister of Fire
Dennis - as soon as I saw this thread I knew I would see a picture of your stacks! That's an interesting point you make about the pile shrinking at the same rate - I've never considered that before. I stack mine about 6 rows deep and the center stacks are a bit wetter than the outside, but only a bit. They still burn fine for me. Probably single rows would be better but I don't have the space (well I do but I'm not giving up the yard that I play with the kids in). I also agree that keeping it off the ground is a huge key. As for covering the wood, I don't cover at all but I do stack a bit under my deck so I have some dry on hand at all times. You'll find many on here that cover and many that don't and we all seem to do okay. I think the point of agreement is to top-cover only if you are going to cover. To the OP, if you have to burn the oak next year I would mix it with the maple but it might be best to wait on the oak if you can.
I've been burning almost 100% oak that was C/S/S in April 2010. The lengths were cut short & the splits are small. It was stacked under an open sided shelter that is about 8' at the peak. The wood stack is about 6' > 7' high & about 7' deep. Some of the splits are fine. The pieces right next to them are wet with moisture. I can tell by the weight & the fact that instead of nice little blue flames slowly flickering, I end up with billowing yellow flames & it doesn't kick into secondary burn. The yellow burning wood also leaves a large coal pile that takes a long time to burn down. Most of the wood I have to stack all around the stove for a day or two to dry it out.
I am burning this in an Englander NC13. In your case I think a saving factor will be the pre-EPA stove you will be using. When I had my old Russo, I could practically cut a tree down & throw it in the stove & it would be fine. I am not a newbie at this as my primary heat source has been wood since 1976.
Al
I am burning this in an Englander NC13. In your case I think a saving factor will be the pre-EPA stove you will be using. When I had my old Russo, I could practically cut a tree down & throw it in the stove & it would be fine. I am not a newbie at this as my primary heat source has been wood since 1976.
Al
ironworker
Burning Hunk
NorthEast Allnighter said:
Yes. Two years is minimum for oak around here.
Your wood consumption is also a concern though. You have used twice as much as I have this year, and I burned mostly pine so far. (pine has half the BTUs of oak)
Presumably 3 things are working against you:
1. Your stove is wasting half or so of your wood, due to in-efficient design.
2. Your basement walls are conducting heat to the outdoors.
3. The wood you are burning is not truly seasoned, causing an increase in fuel use.
Is it possible to install the stove upstairs? IMHO, this would be the lowest hanging fruit.
The dead standing oak may not need additional seasoning at all. It may be well seasoned when you cut it down. That's what I'm burning this year and it's been great.
======================
As for the "center of the pile" debate, here's my thought: Moisture evaporates slowly out of a split. All it takes is a little air movement through the stack to absorb the moisture that comes out. I see some photos here of some very pretty, tightly stacked piles where each split is fit in snuggly. I go the opposite way, I try not to stack the wood too tightly so as to allow air to move through the stack.
I think if you get a little air movement through the stack and don't add a lot of moisture to it (via rain and snow), it will season fairly well.
Now my wood shed (steel carport) has a couple of feet above the wood so there is air movement above and all four sides are open. When I get that filled, I'll probably start stacks outside but put some scrap metal roofing over the top.
Yes, I can see the importance of single wide stacks with plenty of air circulation IF it gets rained and snowed on. Multi pile stacks up against each other are going to hold rain and snow in the middle, especially in wet and humid climates (I think we had rain every third day last year!)
So maybe, just maybe, part of the debate centers on: uncovered is okay if single stack, but rows stacked closely together will do better if covered.
But I'm no expert.
Ken
======================
As for the "center of the pile" debate, here's my thought: Moisture evaporates slowly out of a split. All it takes is a little air movement through the stack to absorb the moisture that comes out. I see some photos here of some very pretty, tightly stacked piles where each split is fit in snuggly. I go the opposite way, I try not to stack the wood too tightly so as to allow air to move through the stack.
I think if you get a little air movement through the stack and don't add a lot of moisture to it (via rain and snow), it will season fairly well.
Now my wood shed (steel carport) has a couple of feet above the wood so there is air movement above and all four sides are open. When I get that filled, I'll probably start stacks outside but put some scrap metal roofing over the top.
Yes, I can see the importance of single wide stacks with plenty of air circulation IF it gets rained and snowed on. Multi pile stacks up against each other are going to hold rain and snow in the middle, especially in wet and humid climates (I think we had rain every third day last year!)
So maybe, just maybe, part of the debate centers on: uncovered is okay if single stack, but rows stacked closely together will do better if covered.
But I'm no expert.
Ken
- Status
