I think people are having a hard time getting pellets lots of people posting. It's still warm now but wait til we have highs in the 30's and 40's I think things are going to get worse in the near future
This Forum is Creating the Pellet Panic!!
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NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
I remember as a child many used bagged coal and could pick up a few on payday on the way home. Even then many I knew would eventually build an inexpensive coal bin to take advantage of bulk delivery prices on the off season. a nice little coal bucket was used to fuel stoves.
I not knowing the prices of pellets my curiosity says: is bulk delivery cheaper then buying by the bag and worrying?
I not knowing the prices of pellets my curiosity says: is bulk delivery cheaper then buying by the bag and worrying?
NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
http://www.nh.gov/oep/energy/energy-nh/fuel-prices/index.htm
So you could pay up to 414.06 per ton to break even at the current oil price.
So you could pay up to 414.06 per ton to break even at the current oil price.
Lol highs in the 30's and 40's? I wish! Now if you use those same numbers and put the words "below zero" in front of them you will describe our winters
St_Earl
Minister of Fire
the delivery fee i pay is a flat $75. so i always get the 6 tons steve's truck can haul.
and prices are best in spring, so i schedule for right after the snow is gone.
nothing else makes sense.
if i don't burn the extra ton that i and so many others did last winter, there will come a year when i don't have to order.
i'm lucky to have lots of space for them.
$345 is $125 more per ton than i pay.
it's just not happening.
and prices are best in spring, so i schedule for right after the snow is gone.
nothing else makes sense.
if i don't burn the extra ton that i and so many others did last winter, there will come a year when i don't have to order.
i'm lucky to have lots of space for them.
$345 is $125 more per ton than i pay.
it's just not happening.
Well my point is in the east it's been in the70's degrees "no need for heat" and there is some what of a shortage now below zero would only make it even worse.
You didn't factor is the cost of your stove which would of been less if you bought a better effecient furnace, or if you left it alone and added $4000 of oil that would of cost less
I have a hard time drinking the kool-aid with those calculators vs real world. If I burned heating oil all winter I'd use about 650-700 gallons (about $2000-2200 @ 3.06) for the whole seasons with about a 68f indoor ambient. I spend about $800-9 with wood pellets and keep an ambi of 75-77 downstairs and 72-73 upstairs in my colonial. Not only are we much warmer but real world savings is about $1000 a season.
WNCBear
Member
Look at the number of views on threads that have the mention of pellet shortages. You're getting everyone scared that they won't have heat this winter and of course you're telling all your friends and co-workers about the shortage and they're getting antsy about pellet availability.
This forum is fueling the run and shortage on pellets
No panic. Prepared.
The calculators are accurate on a BTU/cost basis but can never account for the duct losses with the central unit. Lots of heat goes in the attic and in the basement where the oil burner resides instead of into the living space. All of the pellet heat goes into the living space.
NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
Using the chart from NHOSP pellets are second only to natural gas. I think its a great heat source. obviously one can cross multiply with actual local costs of different fuels for up to date and actual savings comparison. My interest in this is that I burn wood($60-100 a cord) and save a boatload over other heat sources. I think that the btu per unit comparison is interesting and supports the use of a wood or pellet boiler burning to thermal storage for best efficiency. conservation of fuel seems to be the best answer to economics of heating. as stated above the ability to afford a higher temperature in the home is much desired. IMHO
The wood boiler to storage for me would be the cheapest after initial purchase,but a pellet boiler to storage would free up much of my time for fishing.
The wood boiler to storage for me would be the cheapest after initial purchase,but a pellet boiler to storage would free up much of my time for fishing.
TimfromMA
Minister of Fire
NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
FYI
"Approximately 1.5 million tons of wood pellets are consumed annually in the U.S. Northeast. According to independent forecasts, wood pellet consumption in the region is expected to increase at an annual growth rate of 7% through 2018. Customer demand for wood pellets in this market exceeds available regional production."
(broken link removed to http://www.rentechinc.com/wood-pellets-US.php)
One of the biggest efficiency gains you see is your pellet stove is up to date and not over-sized for you house. Most folks have a central heating appliance that is grossly over-sized for their house and its 15+ years old. The average home needs 20-30k btu while the central heating system puts out 75k btu miniumum. Its like using a flame thrower to light your birthday cake.
The calculators don't account for how poorly installed said heating system is.
I suspect if you put a 30k btu oil stove in the middle of your house you'd be surprised how much money you would save.
tiger
Feeling the Heat
Agreed for most and particularly heavy users. But (and I am supposed to get by 2 tons delivered tomorrow), I seem to go to HD weekly -- 4 miles R/T -- for my never-ending household projects. I've been discussing with my wife the idea of grabbing 5 bags every trip. No extra driving for me, and won't run up against a limit. I might end up w/a surplus, but maybe not. Some chance I can get four bags in the Boxster (two in the trunk, one in the frunk, one in the passenger seat) without needing the utility trailer.
And, being just outside of Washington DC... am I the furthest-south user on this forum? (Might impact my consumption, and supply)
My boiler(and house) is 20 years old, but does still seem to be performing ok. It's oversized but I scale back the high limit (155 in the shoulder 170 in peak winter), so the circulator runs much more than the burner. The boiler also sits in heated/insulated space, so minimal losses on that front.
I've only had my pellet stove for 1 year, but the degree days for winter 2013-2014 are VERY similar to winter 2010-2011 for my zip code, so I use this as a basis for comparison. I used 225 bags of pellets in 2013-2014. During the same period in 2010-2011 I burned 570 gallons of heating oil. That 575 would have cost me $2,070 with [email protected]/gallon last winter, so there is no doubt I saved money: I spent $920 on those pellets but bought them mostly at Lowes with coupons and hauled them myself. It's also interesting that using the raw equivalency of 1 bag pellets = 2.5 gallon oil, the mathematicians predict on a BTU equivalence that the 225 bags = 562.5 gallons of oil (pretty darn close to my equivalent year usage).
Now... That math starts to change as oil comes down in price and pellets go up. With pellets pushing up over $5 a bag and oil pushing back under $3 a gallon, the payoff for all of the hauling/stacking/cleaning is starting to dwindle. I'm just hoping I can break even on my Mt Vernon before we hit equilibrium. Given the high overlap of pellet heat and oil heat, it's almost a given that they will reach some sort of equilibrium at some point.
Pellets are ebb and flow just like other commodities: bullets (still have my Y2K supply), hay (seems like every other year there is is panic), and pellets (again, every other year there seems to be some alert). This year when I called my supplier he said they were having issues getting their stock so I took the initiative and found another source; no panic, just proactive and self preserving. I do not think this forum or any other causes shortages, it is just the nature of the beast. I use less than 2 ton per year and that is what I buy, I don't like to store them over 2 years.
Luvmesomesamples
Burning Hunk
I also would like to point out even if I were able to buy oil right now for $3.15 or whatever it is, with a standard 275 gal tank I would still need to purchase at least 4 more times during the heating season, which last year reached $4.25. I filled my oil tank up at $3.28 last fall, the same as it is right now. My savings will come this winter. I agree people need to chill out with the pellet crisis crap.
Supply is definitely down compared to previous years. A lot of folks pre-bought and left on-site, which left little room for houses to actually buy more with the money. They sat on inventory--- the #1 most expensive thing in business, even if it's already paid for.
Trucks can only haul in so much. If there's no room to store it, once they pallets start going off the shelves around now, there's little trickle back in to the shelves.
I wish I had electric baseboards. i'm honestly considering adding a few to some key rooms and hooking up a home-brew solar panel set up that would just power those when they had sun on them as supplimental.
Trucks can only haul in so much. If there's no room to store it, once they pallets start going off the shelves around now, there's little trickle back in to the shelves.
I wish I had electric baseboards. i'm honestly considering adding a few to some key rooms and hooking up a home-brew solar panel set up that would just power those when they had sun on them as supplimental.
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Neither is cheaper than coal.... which is substantially cheaper than pellets.
Dan
Look at the number of views on threads that have the mention of pellet shortages. You're getting everyone scared that they won't have heat this winter and of course you're telling all your friends and co-workers about the shortage and they're getting antsy about pellet availability.
This forum is fueling the run and shortage on pellets
Today is my first day back on this forum in about 4 months, that being said, I just got my winter stash of Somersets yesterday, and it took me a day of calling around to find a decent pellet actually in stock. I think people are a bit scarred by last years issues.
yrock87
Member
I admit that as a new pellet burner this forum helped me make a decision about buying the 8 tons i need for a season this fall. but honestly, i didnt just run out and grab pellets willy nilly. i looked at my local supply, and here, it is all seasonal. the major suppliers here are the box stores, so when they swich over to lawn mowers in february, i loose my ability to buy another 2 tons. a large portion of my avalialbe stocks are trucked up and the stores do that shipping up here the same way they do it down south. so yeah, this site informed my decision, but i also used some comon sense and local expertise. i think that you should give the average member a little more credit than to think that anybody who visits this site once will immediatly go and try to buy twice his annual fuel needs.
Last year spent some time to get my pellets. Many trips to the store waiting for the big truck to bring in some Set's. This year I called some other pellet users an brought a truckload. It was way better then then last year and got the pellets that I paid for. Think it will be ok once everyone stops the big preseason push to get all they can. 1200 Gal of oil would cost me around $3900 for heat and hot water for the year. Last year pellets cost me $1000. Oil for 275 gal cost me $880 . New stove return on investment was under 4 years. Pellet win IMO!!
Pellets are completely covered in plastic such that storing them outside has no real affect on them.
If I stay inside and read nothing but impending doom, I will start to believe it!
I saw Blowes had them a few weeks back and the threat of a shortage had started online. I bought 1 ton yesterday, and will buy 1 ton today, then on to individual bags to top off the pellet shed to capacity.
Bill
I saw Blowes had them a few weeks back and the threat of a shortage had started online. I bought 1 ton yesterday, and will buy 1 ton today, then on to individual bags to top off the pellet shed to capacity.
Bill
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