Thinking Wood Gun...any advice or experience?

[avc8130]

I just took a quick look at an install manual via. Pex Supply website. It specs horizontal only, but can do vertical with motor above if pressure is above 20psi. Maybe double check with your plumber or who you bought the pump from or someone else who would know for sure.

Yeah, I am finding the same thing as I research.

My system pressure is right about 20psi. Since I have to drain that area to re-orient to get the motor up anyways, I'm going to talk to my boiler guy about turning the flanges to get it horizontal.

Darn.

ac

 

[avc8130]

I just got confirmation that my aquastat for circulator control got delivered. I guess I'll be doing a tad more than just starting a fire tonight.

ac

 

[Woodsrover]

Yeah, I am finding the same thing as I research.

My system pressure is right about 20psi. Since I have to drain that area to re-orient to get the motor up anyways, I'm going to talk to my boiler guy about turning the flanges to get it horizontal.

Darn.

ac

I would do that too. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Woodsrover]

Cycle timer is a priority. I KNOW I will be needing it.

ac

Above 30-degrees or so my hose seems to heat off nothing but the cycle timer. I have it set for 6 minutes every 80 minutes and unless I'm using a bunch of hot water the boiler doesn't fire on temperature. Yes, I think you'll want a timer. It took me a while to tune it in just right but now I find it is very handy.

 

[avc8130]

Above 30-degrees or so my hose seems to heat off nothing but the cycle timer. I have it set for 6 minutes every 80 minutes and unless I'm using a bunch of hot water the boiler doesn't fire on temperature. Yes, I think you'll want a timer. It took me a while to tune it in just right but now I find it is very handy.

Which model are you using? I'm going to order one today.

ac

PS: I'm going to re-orient the circ pump. Easier to deal with it now than have a failure later.

 

[Woodsrover]

Which model are you using? I'm going to order one today.

ac

Whatever came with my WG.

 

[avc8130]

Whatever came with my WG.

Intermatic C8845 from my understanding.

ac

 

[Gasifier]

About the circ. pump. If I remember correctly someone said this to me in one of my threads a long time back. And I think I have a Taco 007 that is mounted vertically, that is what they commented about. I will see if I can find it or double check the pump when I go home. But it had been there seven years since the install of the oil boiler and I had not had a problem with it. Doesn't mean it was done right, just didn't seem like it needed to be changed if it performed that long with no problems. If it ain't broke..........

 

[Gasifier]

Above 30-degrees or so my hose seems to heat off nothing but the cycle timer. I have it set for 6 minutes every 80 minutes and unless I'm using a bunch of hot water the boiler doesn't fire on temperature. Yes, I think you'll want a timer. It took me a while to tune it in just right but now I find it is very handy.

Why are you heating a hose?

 

[Woodsrover]

Why are you heating a hose?

Ever have a cold hose? No fun!

 

[avc8130]

About the circ. pump. If I remember correctly someone said this to me in one of my threads a long time back. And I think I have a Taco 007 that is mounted vertically, that is what they commented about. I will see if I can find it or double check the pump when I go home. But it had been there seven years since the install of the oil boiler and I had not had a problem with it. Doesn't mean it was done right, just didn't seem like it needed to be changed if it performed that long with no problems. If it ain't broke..........

I appreciate the tidbit of experience. I think I'm going to swing the flanges and orient it horizontal. It isn't TOO terrible to do right now, and will put the configuration inline with what the manufacturer suggests. Right now I haven't kicked that circulator on yet, so I will just get it "right".

I can't blame you for not touching yours. I agree, you have a proven method that works. Stick it out.

ac

PS: I checked some old threads for pics of your setup. Your pump is NOT vertical like mine :-(. You have it mounted "properly".

 

[Gasifier]

I appreciate the tidbit of experience. I think I'm going to swing the flanges and orient it horizontal. It isn't TOO terrible to do right now, and will put the configuration inline with what the manufacturer suggests. Right now I haven't kicked that circulator on yet, so I will just get it "right".

I can't blame you for not touching yours. I agree, you have a proven method that works. Stick it out.

ac

PS: I checked some old threads for pics of your setup. Your pump is NOT vertical like mine :-(. You have it mounted "properly".

I agree it is a good idea for you to change it now if it is easy for you. As far as my circ pump goes. You have seen my wood gun circ pump that sends heat from wood boiler to tank. Or my circ pump that sends heat from wood boiler and/or tank through primary loop on to the other side of the hall. (It is a long story.) One of my older threads shows my other boiler room where my oil boiler lurks. And there are five more circ pumps in there for each zone in the house and garage! I actually have nine (9) circulation pumps. There is one circ pump in there that someone commented on. That was in one of the old threads. The only way to see that is to go into the "old" hearth.com forum setup and look for it. I think I have that link somewhere. Anywho, good luck with finishing your install and keep the pics and information coming. Always want to see wood boiler set ups and the like.

 

[avc8130]

I agree it is a good idea for you to change it now if it is easy for you. As far as my circ pump goes. You have seen my wood gun circ pump that sends heat from wood boiler to tank. Or my circ pump that sends heat from wood boiler and/or tank through primary loop on to the other side of the hall. (It is a long story.) One of my older threads shows my other boiler room where my oil boiler lurks. And there are five more circ pumps in there for each zone in the house and garage! I actually have nine (9) circulation pumps. There is one circ pump in there that someone commented on. That was in one of the old threads. The only way to see that is to go into the "old" hearth.com forum setup and look for it. I think I have that link somewhere. Anywho, good luck with finishing your install and keep the pics and information coming. Always want to see wood boiler set ups and the like.

Well fine then. Your system is messed up and hacked together. LOL J/K.

That's a lot of pumps! I thought about switching to a one pump/zone setup, then I decided "if it ain't broke..." for now.

I will definitely keep the pics coming, if it wasn't for posting pics I would have never known my circ pump was wrong!

ac

 

[Gasifier]

Well fine then. Your system is messed up and hacked together. LOL J/K.

That's a lot of pumps! I thought about switching to a one pump/zone setup, then I decided "if it ain't broke..." for now.

I will definitely keep the pics coming, if it wasn't for posting pics I would have never known my circ pump was wrong!

ac

You got that right. And it works great! Actually, my house was built as an apartment house. And was a great layout to convert to one large house over the years. When originally built it had one large circulation pump and five zones for five apartments. Simple. I bought it, let's see, 18-1/2 years ago now. Over the years I had problems with the motor heads in the circulation pumps burning up in them. So when I installed the new oil boiler, oil was still a reasonable price at the time, I replaced all the zone valves with small circ pumps. Like them a lot better. Have had no problems with them. Then added one more in for the indirect water heater. So now there is six! When I added the Wood Gun in it's own room we put one for circ from boiler to tank and one for circ from boiler and/or tank through primary loop. Now we have eight! Then we added one just above the oil boiler so that the oil boiler would pump into primary loop as well. Now nine. Luckily, they are very reliable. So far! I don't think I know anyone else who has nine circ pumps for there house and garage! So there. Makes complete sense to me!

 

[avc8130]

You got that right. And it works great! Actually, my house was built as an apartment house. And was a great layout to convert to one large house over the years. When originally built it had one large circulation pump and five zones for five apartments. Simple. I bought it, let's see, 18-1/2 years ago now. Over the years I had problems with the motor heads in the circulation pumps burning up in them. So when I installed the new oil boiler, oil was still a reasonable price at the time, I replaced all the zone valves with small circ pumps. Like them a lot better. Have had no problems with them. Then added one more in for the indirect water heater. So now there is six! When I added the Wood Gun in it's own room we put one for circ from boiler to tank and one for circ from boiler and/or tank through primary loop. Now we have eight! Then we added one just above the oil boiler so that the oil boiler would pump into primary loop as well. Now nine. Luckily, they are very reliable. So far! I don't think I know anyone else who has nine circ pumps for there house and garage! So there. Makes complete sense to me!

You don't have to explain to me about wonky arrangements...just look at my supply and return manifolds!

I was thinking about going to a Grundfos Alpha pump since the head on my zone circulator must vary as different zones open and close. I decided against it for now as I am trying to limit my variables should something not heat well.

My indirect DHW has its own circ pump and draws from the supply separately. It returns to the shared manifold. I think they did this so it could get some "priority" should a few heat zones be open whilst someone is showering. Since it worked, I didn't question it and kept the arrangement.

ac

 

[maple1]

I think we all have our system wonky spots.

Do you have return temp protection - or does the WG need it?

 

[Gasifier]

I think we all have our system wonky spots.

Do you have return temp protection - or does the WG need it?

Return protection on mine. Danfoss 140 . I read in the manual, after I bought the Danfoss, the part that says you should have 160 protection. But it is all good.

 

[maple1]

Return protection on mine. Danfoss 140 . I read in the manual, after I bought the Danfoss, the part that says you should have 160 protection. But it is all good.

OK, I wasn't picking one out on avc's pics so was wondering if maybe they some kind of builit in bypass setup. Maybe there's something there I'm not seeing.

 

[avc8130]

OK, I wasn't picking one out on avc's pics so was wondering if maybe they some kind of builit in bypass setup. Maybe there's something there I'm not seeing.

I do NOT have return water temp protection. I spoke to AHS about it at length, they maintained that it was not necessary on the SS boiler models.

I DO have a circulator control aquastat. I installed an aquastat in a spare well that "Makes on Rise". I will set this to 160 with a 10 differential and use it to control my circulator pump. This way my circulator pump will only work if the boiler temp is 160 or higher, and will only cool the boiler off to 150 before shutting down if the fire is out.

That serves 2 purposes in my mind:
1. Doesn't waste electricity pumping water that won't heat my rooms anyways.
2. Will act as a defacto return water temp. The boiler will be able to put 100% of its heat into heating the water if it is <160 even if the hose calls for heat. This should limit the amount of water circulated below 140 anyways.

ac

 

[maple1]

I have a friend who has a s/s Woodgun. It has been a long time since I have seen it, but I don't remember there being return protection on it either.

 

[avc8130]

OK, nightly update:

1. I got the circulator flipped around. What a nightmare! We couldn't get one of the flanges to spin, so I had to go out and buy a 2nd 24" pipe wrench (previously the boiler guy brought his but he was busy tonight). Once I had that we spun the flange and we were off to the races...or so we thought. Since I didn't apply NEW pipe dope, the darn thing dribbled. Took it back apart again, new dope, reassembled. Looks "good" now.

2. I STARTED A FIRE! and had to abort the attempt within seconds. My basement FILLED with smoke. Just about all of my chimney connections leak. I had silicone and metal tape on them, but apparently I missed too much with the silicone to work. I re-did the connections with more silicone, but I am still stuck...

HEY WOOD GUNNERS, HOW DO YOU SEAL THE FIRST PIPE SECTION CONNECTION TO THE CYCLONE?

My double wall pipe might be complicating this. The inside wall slips inside the cyclone, the outside slips around the cyclone.

Suggestions?

ac

 

[Woodsrover]

OK, nightly update:

HEY WOOD GUNNERS, HOW DO YOU SEAL THE FIRST PIPE SECTION CONNECTION TO THE CYCLONE?

My double wall pipe might be complicating this. The inside wall slips inside the cyclone, the outside slips around the cyclone.

Suggestions?

ac

I know they suggest an insulated pipe off these things but I'm not sure its really needed. Burn dry wood and you shouldn't have a problem with moisture. My WG does a LOT of idling and I get almost no water in the pan. A drop or three at most. The last thing I'm worried about is the pipe after the cyclone rusting out.

And yes, I think that is making things too complicated. I can't stress enough how well-sealed the stove pipe has to be. The exhaust is under a good deal of pressure and the tiniest hole will pump smoke and stink up your house. Ask me how I know. Also pay close attention to the seal on the ash pan door. I had to re-do mine. I also had a bad weld on my cyclone that I had to seal up. WG needs to pay a little closer attention to these details. A ran simple galvanized 26-gauge pipe up to my thimble and if I have to replace it every five or eight years, so-be-it. I really don't think I will.

 

[avc8130]

I know they suggest an insulated pipe off these things but I'm not sure its really needed. Burn dry wood and you shouldn't have a problem with moisture. My WG does a LOT of idling and I get almost no water in the pan. A drop or three at most. The last thing I'm worried about is the pipe after the cyclone rusting out.

And yes, I think that is making things too complicated. I can't stress enough how well-sealed the stove pipe has to be. The exhaust is under a good deal of pressure and the tiniest hole will pump smoke and stink up your house. Ask me how I know. Also pay close attention to the seal on the ash pan door. I had to re-do mine. I also had a bad weld on my cyclone that I had to seal up. WG needs to pay a little closer attention to these details. A ran simple galvanized 26-gauge pipe up to my thimble and if I have to replace it every five or eight years, so-be-it. I really don't think I will.

Well, I'm not switching pipes now.
1. This setup was close to $400!
2. I NEED the double wall since my thimble is ~12" from the combustible floor joists.

Any tips/suggestions for how to seal with the silicone?

ac

 

[avc8130]

I picked up a batt of Roxul insulation and another 2 tubes of silicone. Plan of attack:

1. Remove stupid metal tape that will probably dry out and leak.
2. Re-silicone ALL joints:
a. clean up loose original silicone
b. place a HEALTHY bead along edge of male piece, right where the crimp ends and pipe tapers
c. reassemble with screws and allow to cure
3. Roxul around masonry. I didn't have a leak here, but I think packing it with fire-proof insulation will provide some stability and prevent any leaks.
4. Use a small amount of Roxul in between inner and outer pipe walls to try to seal to flange on the cyclone. This will do 2 things:
a. hopefully prevent flow of smoke up between pipe walls and over flange
b. provide a gap to silicone outer wall to cyclone flange for a 2nd seal

Notes: I think AHS suggestion of using a clean out tee instead of an elbow SUCKS.
1. It creates a 3rd joint that is super stupid tough to seal. Having to seal this virtually nullifies any benefit of "easy" cleaning of the horizontal segment anyways.
2. This tee creates quite a bit of back pressure. I think that is the main reason I am having so much trouble sealing it up. None of my joints from the horizontal segment leaked, only those BEFORE the tee leaked.

Wish me luck!

ac

 

[muncybob]

Good luck to you ac. After reading what you are going through with the double walled pipe I'm glad I "cheaped" out and installed single wall. It must have been dissapointing to abort your first burn, but I'm sure you'll get it all sealed up soon. Then the fun finally begins.