800-900 / year and 1k deductable-- frixing nutz. rental experience last Nov. Automatic braking set as high as possible- no wonder I could not seem to get the cruise control set, among other things that drove nutz on that rig. In the past I have never had a problem adapting to a different unit quickly- but this new stuff is a royal pia. If I had been driving that car this morning on my way in I would likely be on a gurnee in morge do to the action of an idiot that cut through 3 lanes - barley cleared my front end and I heard the breaks on the car to my right lock up . That auto brake system would have had me buried under a semi that was behind me - following way to close for comfort.
The 'Surprise EV'!
- Thread starter woodgeek
- Start date
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EbS-P
Minister of Fire
in 2016 the purchase price was $150k nothing about owning this vehicle is cheap or practical. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds on a drag strip. All aluminum body. You can dent the front hood while latching it. But gas savings over my mini van is 200$ per 1k miles so I come out saving some money.
Regen breaking just takes a bit of getting used too. Two weeks and it felt normal. I’d just turn it off/ down if it was my first time driving and it was a rental.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Ashful
Minister of Fire
The auto (collision-avoidance) braking on my SRT Charger is crazy violent. Scared the absolute hell out of me, the first few times it fired off. Six pistons pinching 15.4" cross-drilled and slotted two piece rotors on each front wheel, plus an additional four pistons on each rear wheel, total 20 pistons firing all at once... it ain't a pleasant experience.
After several false deployments, due almost exclusively to the way our old PA roads have the left-turn lane aligned with the thru traffic while the thru traffic has to veer to the right to pass those waiting to turn left, I turned the system off completely. The other troublesome scenario is when following someone who is slowing to turn, knowing they will turn before you reach them, the system fires off thinking you're going to rear-end them. You need to drive very passively, literally all of the time, to avoid false firings of this system.
tlc1976
Minister of Fire
800-900 a year for collision coverage on a late model vehicle? That’s dirt cheap IME.
I paid 1000/year 20 years ago for a 10 year old station wagon, no accidents or tickets at the time. My gf currently pays 1200-1300 a year for a 20 year old Taurus, never had an accident or ticket. I have coworkers who had either an accident, ticket, lapsed coverage, dui… and pay hundreds of dollars a month.
I paid 1000/year 20 years ago for a 10 year old station wagon, no accidents or tickets at the time. My gf currently pays 1200-1300 a year for a 20 year old Taurus, never had an accident or ticket. I have coworkers who had either an accident, ticket, lapsed coverage, dui… and pay hundreds of dollars a month.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
At least Tesla lets you select the engagement distance but not turn it off completely. And it sounds the collision beep well before breaks engage. I have never had a break deployment. The 2011 RAV4 has a maximum breaking feature that if you hit the breaks fast enough and hard enough it will apply full breaks until you lift your foot off the pedal. It’s kinda weird.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
SRT allows you to choose the warning distance. The music mutes, the car beeps, it flashes red on the dash, and the wheel vibrates when a warning is activated. But I believe the actual emergency stop distance is locked to the same distance as the "short" distance selection for warning, if that makes sense. I say that because, the auto braking and the warning seem to fire simultaneously when I have "Collision Warning Distance: Short" selected.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
My 2022 Bolt auto-braking is image based with radar as well AFAIK. As it also claims to detect pedestrians (and auto-brake) as well.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I have seen the first Volvo demonstration where it crashed. And several tesla tests. Have not seen any Chevy or Dodge videos
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yeah, it's all W-band forward-looking radar, I believe developed in the late-2000's during their time under Daimler ownership, originally for Mercedes products and then pushed onto the higher-end Chrysler products. I say this because the early marketing (2015'ish) of both systems was identical in both styling and timing. I think the vision-based systems came along later, and are more advanced, my car is a bit older (2016). I'm not sure what system they deploy on the 2023.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Looks like it will be/already is required. Now if they just didn’t let you hit the “I’m not driving driving” button on your phone.
US safety agency to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles and set tougher standards
The U.S. government’s auto safety agency plans to require that all new passenger cars and light trucks include potentially life-saving automatic emergency braking and meet stricter safety standards within three years. The announcement by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration...
apnews.com
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
FYI, slotted and drilled actually reduce surface area for braking friction, but run cooler when you are on a track. On the street they produce less braking ability than solid faced rotors. Drilled and/or slotted rotors are also harder on pads, dustier, and less durable. I honestly don't know why OEMs insist on putting them on cars made for the street. I used to own an SRT8 Challenger, and I don't care what anyone says, none of the SRT8 cars are really for the track. They are fully optioned cruisers with a lot of power and big brakes.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Agreed. But they started selling them as "track cars" in the 2015/16 timeframe, and actually came with a voucher for a two day course on their test track, with one-on-one or small-group driver training. I never bothered to cash mine in, I was in no mood to travel to Detroit, but that was the marketing.
I actually swapped to a more streetable pad after the first 5k miles, as the original Brembo pads would dust up the wheels just leaving the damn driveway, after spending all that time to clean them. The pads I'm running now stop just as well as the OEM's on the street, but won't perform as well when heated under track conditions.
I'm still running the OEM rotors, but will also go aftermarket on those, when it's time for replacement. FCA gets something like $2700 per pair for front rotors, and $900 per pair for front brake pads, and I'm not putting this thing on the track.
In any case, the stopping power comes from the sheer size and surface area, as you noted, and the pressure applied over that large surface area by piston count. Pretty sure my even-heavier pickup gets away fine with four brake caliper pistons, the car has 20.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
It’s my opinion that bigger is only better in so far they (rotors pads pistons calipers break fluid) take longer to over heat. The extra force of the extra pistons helps overcome break fade at high temps. At some temp all breaks get greasy
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Yes, the biggest benefit to the fixed calipers is pistons on both sides, plus less unsprung weight compared to a sliding caliper of equivalent performance. Increasing size does help in heat loading, but the increased swept area is also a huge benefit to braking friction. However, even a tiny single piston caliper would rip the hub right out of a wheel given a sticky enough tire, but such a tire doesn't exist. The old (96-04) Mustang Cobra/Mach 1 brakes were about as good as you could do with sliding two piston calipers. Toyota puts some honking big four piston calipers on their Tacoma and Tundra, which I've always been impressed with. For most people, fixed calipers aren't worth the hassle in regards pad wear, and I don't think I've ever seen an EV with them. Maybe the old Tesla Roadster (repowered Lotus) had them, but it probably didn't need fixed caliper performance on a track given the light weight and regen. It must be fabulous to have basically zero lag from acceleration to braking in a proper track car, all without having to worry about locking up the wheels! I keep going back and forth about getting one last ICE manual transmission Jeep while they are still around, or waiting for a competent small EV truck to come out. Something that I could take hunting/down the logging roads, drive to/for work, and/or light farm duties.
While the Charger/Challenger/300/Magnum SRT8 cars are marketed as track vehicles, it's just marketing. Those things would die on track without dedicated brake fluid, engine oil, pads, and rotors and some other longevity upgrades. At least, they would die after a few hot laps. They are probably fine for the totally amateur track day driver, but once you get some experience those brakes are liable to catch on fire if the oil pump doesn't cavitate first. Heck, I've cooked the brakes on a few cars on twisty mountain roads (Tail of the Dragon, Chasing the Dragon Hillclimb route). A true track car is not great to drive on the street on a daily basis, but it's fun once or twice to roll to work in your race car. My old race Miata had poly/delrin bushings on all mounts, near solid motor mounts, lightweight drive pulleys, very stiff/low suspension, ear splitting lightweight exhaust, no accessories, braided brake lines, race pads/rotors, stripped out interior, etc. and it was so much fun, for short drives. Not so fun driving it two or three hours to the race.
While the Charger/Challenger/300/Magnum SRT8 cars are marketed as track vehicles, it's just marketing. Those things would die on track without dedicated brake fluid, engine oil, pads, and rotors and some other longevity upgrades. At least, they would die after a few hot laps. They are probably fine for the totally amateur track day driver, but once you get some experience those brakes are liable to catch on fire if the oil pump doesn't cavitate first. Heck, I've cooked the brakes on a few cars on twisty mountain roads (Tail of the Dragon, Chasing the Dragon Hillclimb route). A true track car is not great to drive on the street on a daily basis, but it's fun once or twice to roll to work in your race car. My old race Miata had poly/delrin bushings on all mounts, near solid motor mounts, lightweight drive pulleys, very stiff/low suspension, ear splitting lightweight exhaust, no accessories, braided brake lines, race pads/rotors, stripped out interior, etc. and it was so much fun, for short drives. Not so fun driving it two or three hours to the race.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Great info. I wonder how much of what you remember about the SRT8 was rolled into the SRT392 redesign, versus remaining the same. Did you have the old 6.1L SRT8, when SRT was still a separate company, up thru 2014? I know a lot changed in that 2015 model year, including displacement, horsepower, brakes, transmission, and suspension.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Any SRT8 is too fat for the track. It's a street car pretending it's a track car. My SRT8 wasn't stock either 😉 The viper is the only real track ready car, and the old SRT4 would probably hold up pretty well as it came off the line. It's mainly an issue of weight with the old Mercedes based cars. Even with the right brake stuff, it's still going to be a massive car. I'm not saying it couldn't be fast on a track, but a good driver in a Miata will probably lap an average Joe in an SRT8.
I like this truck, which could be a next vehicle contender if it is more than vaporware.
I've been watching that one too. It doesn't look like a roof rack is an option which would probably be a deal killer for me given the small size of the bed.
Looks like a Japanese Kei truck, there are few in my town that are registered as road legal by using the antique loophole. As long as the EV version doesn't weigh them down to much as one of the plusses for Kei cars is they are so light they can be winched out of any hole.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
how that truck meets crash test standards I would have to see to believe. The front axle is almost the the front crash bar.
I think you can make a streetable and comfortable drag car down to 10 seconds. But the equivalent track car I don’t see it being comfortable on the street.
Somebody in town is now selling old Kei 4x4s. I don’t see those as safe on our roads were rear end collisions and red lights are regularly run on roads with 45 mph speed limits.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
It's the same size as a Tacoma bed, allegedly, and has a folding mid gate like the Avalanche/Baja
I really wonder about the frontal area and how range is affected at 55-ish MPH. The front wheels are like an open wheel racer, which should be awesome in the dirt, but horrible for efficiency/aerodynamics.
I LOVE kei vehicles I general, but I think Maine has made it illegal to register the trucks and vans even with the 25 year federal exemption.
I do agree that you could have a comfortable and fast drag strip car. That's the whole Dodge/Mopar/SRT8 ethos!