BrotherBart said:
Got a brand new one all ready to put in...down the road. The cat experience(s) I had were bad and i've yet to forget them.
The neighbor's smoke dragon
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Got a brand new one all ready to put in...down the road. The cat experience(s) I had were bad and i've yet to forget them.
To all,
Be careful what the govt. gets involved in. I read that here in NH, they're going to crack down on wood boilers.
Jim
Be careful what the govt. gets involved in. I read that here in NH, they're going to crack down on wood boilers.
Jim
The "smokey house"... funny, but illustrates just how bad it is when it actually coins a nickname!
At least my neighbor took the step of adding a spark arrestor cap this year... last year that thing was entirely open, probably taking in birds and bats and rain at a pretty good pace. I'm hoping they also cleaned out the creosote while they were at it!
BJ64, I'd love to see that photo, sounds amazing! If he ever has a chimney fire, grab a fork and line up for a huge chicken BBQ
At least my neighbor took the step of adding a spark arrestor cap this year... last year that thing was entirely open, probably taking in birds and bats and rain at a pretty good pace. I'm hoping they also cleaned out the creosote while they were at it!
BJ64, I'd love to see that photo, sounds amazing! If he ever has a chimney fire, grab a fork and line up for a huge chicken BBQ
Here in Wisconsin there are ordinances going up everywhere it seems for the OWB just for the smoke reason. In our small township, the chairman wants an ordinance restricting the installations of them because 1 person she knows doesn't like the one that his neighbor has. This is the same chairman that wants restrictions on TV towers not to be over 30' tall because birds will fly into them and die. Yes I'm serious. But she keeps getting re-elected.
mranum, all it takes is ONE PERSON to mess things up for everyone. Your situation makes a great case for why it's so important for all of us to burn cleanly...
Unfortunately, we're all going to be caught in a bind as world governments move to reduce carbon emissions. The EPA's PM 2.5 regulations have gone in to effect in the US. Everyone agrees that monitoring programs will reveal that most states will not be able to comply with this new lower particulate standard, which will then trigger more draconian government actions at the state level to avoid the loss of federal funding. The EU is in the process of amending their regulations to implement the lower PM 2.5 standard as well. It is interesting to note that EU is also funding studies on pellet stoves and wood pellets--they are beginning to view wood pellets as an eco-friendly biomass energy source. Let's hope US regulators don't look to their European counterparts when it's determined that states are not in compliance with PM 2.5 standards--at public conferences, EU regulators have proposed annual licensing taxes for small (read, residential) wood burning "appliances." (Europe seems to prefer a taxing scheme to encourage compliance rather than an outright ban on the use non-compliant technology; whether they'll be able to sustain such policies if found to be in violation of Kyoto protocols that kick into effect in 2020 is yet to be determined.) Since life on this planet, including us humans, is carbon-based, it makes me wonder if efforts to impose limits the world's carbon footprint will ultimately result in fictionalized scenarios like those portrayed in Soylent Green or Logan's Run being played out in real life.
Oy... I've got one of these neighbors. Far enough away that I am not on a first name kinda friendship but close enough to know that he burns green/wet wood all winter. Some days the street looks like a Civil War battle field with all the smoke. I haven't figured out the tactful way to tell him to season his &*$*@ wood. I'm just waiting for the chimney fire to do it for me.
I'm all for "clearing the air" by educating your neighbor, but I would advise doing it yourself rather than sending the fire department or someone else. It's sad that people just don't talk to each other if they have a concern with someone and/or their actions. I think the first step should always be to address the concern yourself and try to work things out without sending in the cavalry. That just invites the local government (especially in a small town) to create a regulation that affects everyone based on one person's problem with the smoke, tv antenna, barking dog or any other "nuisance".
We just had a young guy (20's) buy a home in our "neighborhood". He has two buddies living with him and they have been renovating the house. The old owner had a big bonfire pit on a section of their lot that borders mine. One afternoon the kids lit up a huge fire and the thick black smoke started pouring right across my lot and through our house. Turns out they were burning not only yard waste and some wooden kitchen cabinets they tore out of the house, but also a ton of carpet and padding that had come to the end of its life. You can imagine the smoke and smell that created. Now I could have called the cops or fire department, but rather than do that I did the neighborly thing and walked over once things were out and pointed out what a bad idea that was and asked them to not do it again.
I sure hope that if one of my neighbors had a problem with something I was doing that they would walk over and say something.
We just had a young guy (20's) buy a home in our "neighborhood". He has two buddies living with him and they have been renovating the house. The old owner had a big bonfire pit on a section of their lot that borders mine. One afternoon the kids lit up a huge fire and the thick black smoke started pouring right across my lot and through our house. Turns out they were burning not only yard waste and some wooden kitchen cabinets they tore out of the house, but also a ton of carpet and padding that had come to the end of its life. You can imagine the smoke and smell that created. Now I could have called the cops or fire department, but rather than do that I did the neighborly thing and walked over once things were out and pointed out what a bad idea that was and asked them to not do it again.
I sure hope that if one of my neighbors had a problem with something I was doing that they would walk over and say something.
MrGriz said:
I have a neighbor like this.
When he pulls stunts like this I get the camera out and stand on the road taking pictures with him looking on. It usually stops for a while till he grows another set of balls. Then he is back at it. Got pics from my deercam of him dumping used motor oil in the ditch and his wife dumping cat litter on my property. Someday when he really pisses me off I'll email him a couple of files of pics.
MrGriz said:
I agree. I'm one of those government employees that have to go out and "educate" people on certain things when I get a call. Contrary to what most people think, I am not thrilled to get these calls. Most of the time, the person complaining has never spoken to his neighbor about the problem.
Personally, I would try an talk to him and offer to help him with the problem. If that doesn't succeed, then you can make the calls. It has been my experience in the past that the person being complained on usually figures out who complained. So, be prepared for some animosity if you go that route.
MrGriz and Nic36 -
This is about education, not about a neighbor dispute. Who better to educate than the experts? If I stroll over there like some sort of know-it-all burning expert, it will likely make little impression. Who am I to teach people how to burn?
Nic36, I am discouraged to hear that you don't like the educational aspect of your job. I hope it's not something as important as fire prevention.
This is about education, not about a neighbor dispute. Who better to educate than the experts? If I stroll over there like some sort of know-it-all burning expert, it will likely make little impression. Who am I to teach people how to burn?
Nic36, I am discouraged to hear that you don't like the educational aspect of your job. I hope it's not something as important as fire prevention.
Sorry Elfin, but this is all about a neighbor dispute and the correct way to handle it. I understand that your perceived solution to the problem is education and I'm sure you are most likely correct. However, until / unless you approach your neighbor and discuss the issue with them you can't know for sure. I'm certain that you could approach him/her without coming off as a know it all.
Not to answer for Nic36, but I bet what he's frustrated with is not the educational aspect of his job, but with the fact that his time and resources are often called on for something that a simple walk across the yard could have solved. Too many people today are looking for someone else to do the lifting for them.
Anyway, good luck with the neighbor!
Not to answer for Nic36, but I bet what he's frustrated with is not the educational aspect of his job, but with the fact that his time and resources are often called on for something that a simple walk across the yard could have solved. Too many people today are looking for someone else to do the lifting for them.
Anyway, good luck with the neighbor!
Unhealthy levels of smoke and a serious fire risk is a neighbor dispute? That's certainly a new spin.
Nice try, MrGriz... but when these folks burn their house down, I don't want to be sitting in the middle with "I'm liable" stamped on my forehead.
This is a matter for the experts at the fire district.
Nice try, MrGriz... but when these folks burn their house down, I don't want to be sitting in the middle with "I'm liable" stamped on my forehead.
This is a matter for the experts at the fire district.
Elfin,
Maybe I didn't come across the right way. I have no problem educating people. But, more often than not, most of my calls involve a pissing match between two neighbors over something totally unrelated to what I do. I am usually being used as a pawn to get back at the other one. I routinely ask the person complaining if he/she has talked to his/her neighbor about the problem. I usually get a short pause and then a "no". I still go and investigate, because it is my job.
I know, that is not the same situation in your case. However, it could totally escalate into that if you call in the big guns on this guy. Just think how you would feel if someone did that to you? The first thing that would probably cross your mind is "If he had a problem, why didn't he just come over here and tell me?" Even worse, this guy could actually start calling everyone from the Health Dept to the IRS on you and people like me would be showing up at your doorstep all the time. It can get ugly. I have seen it happen time and time again.
I don't know if you talk to your neighbor or not, but I don't see the harm in telling him the benefits of proper burning, if nothing more than to keep the creosote levels down in his chimney. Unless this guy is just a total jerk, I can almost guarantee that if you are friendly and sincere, there will be no problems. That doesn't mean he will do what you advise though.
I don't think anyone is criticizing you for wanting to call someone, but if you have to live next to this guy for a while, I would explore other options first.
I don't enforce Air regulations, just certain Water regs for my State. I do know just enough to say this guy would probably be exempt from our Air regs. It may be the same situation in your State. So, even if you still want to call someone, you may want to see if there is anything they can really do first. If not, having someone come out that can do nothing is not going to help matters.
Maybe I didn't come across the right way. I have no problem educating people. But, more often than not, most of my calls involve a pissing match between two neighbors over something totally unrelated to what I do. I am usually being used as a pawn to get back at the other one. I routinely ask the person complaining if he/she has talked to his/her neighbor about the problem. I usually get a short pause and then a "no". I still go and investigate, because it is my job.
I know, that is not the same situation in your case. However, it could totally escalate into that if you call in the big guns on this guy. Just think how you would feel if someone did that to you? The first thing that would probably cross your mind is "If he had a problem, why didn't he just come over here and tell me?" Even worse, this guy could actually start calling everyone from the Health Dept to the IRS on you and people like me would be showing up at your doorstep all the time. It can get ugly. I have seen it happen time and time again.
I don't know if you talk to your neighbor or not, but I don't see the harm in telling him the benefits of proper burning, if nothing more than to keep the creosote levels down in his chimney. Unless this guy is just a total jerk, I can almost guarantee that if you are friendly and sincere, there will be no problems. That doesn't mean he will do what you advise though.
I don't think anyone is criticizing you for wanting to call someone, but if you have to live next to this guy for a while, I would explore other options first.
I don't enforce Air regulations, just certain Water regs for my State. I do know just enough to say this guy would probably be exempt from our Air regs. It may be the same situation in your State. So, even if you still want to call someone, you may want to see if there is anything they can really do first. If not, having someone come out that can do nothing is not going to help matters.
Just have him over one day. Light a fire in the fire pit throw some unseasoned wood on the fire.
Then bring up how much it is smoking and that burning unseasoned wood is a waste of wood.
Because all it does is smoke and produces no heat.
You could also kinda smother the fire with to much wood. So its not getting enough
air and tell him how not giving the fire enough air is not good either.
That way he can see that unseasoned wood and smoldering fire are not good
fires to have. Maybe he will start burning the right way after that.
Then bring up how much it is smoking and that burning unseasoned wood is a waste of wood.
Because all it does is smoke and produces no heat.
You could also kinda smother the fire with to much wood. So its not getting enough
air and tell him how not giving the fire enough air is not good either.
That way he can see that unseasoned wood and smoldering fire are not good
fires to have. Maybe he will start burning the right way after that.
Nic, perhaps part of the problem is posting without reading the entire thread first, to realize that much of what you're suggesting has already been discussed.
Those whose very jobs exist to address fire safety are hardly "big guns"... they are simply doing the job the community's taxes hires them to do. I already had a very nice, very positive chat with the fire district this spring and they agreed that this was the best way to address it, and are happy to speak to my neighbor. I did not ask them to speak to my neighbor - they suggested it when I told them what the issue was. If it saves them from having to fight a house fire, it's certainly worth their time.
If I am somehow creating a public nuisance or hazard in my community, I absolutely hope that I will be notified promptly by authorities before something dire happens. I'm sorry that you don't feel the same.
Those whose very jobs exist to address fire safety are hardly "big guns"... they are simply doing the job the community's taxes hires them to do. I already had a very nice, very positive chat with the fire district this spring and they agreed that this was the best way to address it, and are happy to speak to my neighbor. I did not ask them to speak to my neighbor - they suggested it when I told them what the issue was. If it saves them from having to fight a house fire, it's certainly worth their time.
If I am somehow creating a public nuisance or hazard in my community, I absolutely hope that I will be notified promptly by authorities before something dire happens. I'm sorry that you don't feel the same.
no man, good idea, and I actually was finally able to determine that the problem is green wood. After hearing no chain saw noise at all over the spring and summer, yesterday they brought in a new load of wood which they cut and split and stacked until long after dark. And today, I can see that they are burning what they cut yesterday. Mystery solved.
I think thats a common thing around here too. A few guys that burn wood had no wood stacked till about a month ago.
One of them I know, I went by his house the other day and saw a pile of what looked like fresh rounds just sitting there.
I think some people think they can just cut down a tree and burn it and others buy the "Seasoned wood forsale." Not
knowing that the wood is not seasoned.
One of them I know, I went by his house the other day and saw a pile of what looked like fresh rounds just sitting there.
I think some people think they can just cut down a tree and burn it and others buy the "Seasoned wood forsale." Not
knowing that the wood is not seasoned.
Elfin said:
Oh boy!!
Now, if they are approached, I can just hear the "but this is all we have to burn" etc,etc. Thing is, I can see this going on year after year unless someone educates them. And even then??
I hope this comes to an amicable conclusion. Yes, green wood does stink, musty, dank smell.
Good luck with this one.
Yeah, it almost smells like burning garbage, but without that plastic smell... musty and dank about sums it up!
I don't have high hopes that things will change, but I'm going to at least give it a shot. If I did nothing, and their house burned down, I would really not feel good about that.
I don't have high hopes that things will change, but I'm going to at least give it a shot. If I did nothing, and their house burned down, I would really not feel good about that.
Elfin, I did read the thread, but I obviously missed some things. You said your environmental dept would only send them a letter. Sounds like us, but we probably wouldn't even do that.
I just installed my wood stove early this spring. I have yet to have a fire in it. I put everything in as the specifications require. (We don't require permits and inspections here) I have one neighbor reasonably close, but we get along great. I was uneasy about putting in the wood stove without telling them first. When I did talk to my neighbor, he was totally cool about it.
I have often wondered what would happen if he was adamant against my plans to heat with wood. I guess he could change his mind when I start burning.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is I would much rather him discuss it with me first if he didn't like anything I was doing. Perhaps we could come to some agreement or work something out.
I, personally, would not be happy to have the Fire Marshall show up wanting to come in my house-even though I know him. I would first ask why and want to know who called him. I would then probably tell him to hit the road. Whether it be for the greater good or not, I would not be happy about it, and I don't think your neighbor would be happy about it either.
There is no law against burning green wood for heat here in Alabama. I suspect there is not one there either. So, as I said in my previous post, it may not help matters in the end.
And Elfin, I'm not trying to piss you off, just telling it as I see it.
I just installed my wood stove early this spring. I have yet to have a fire in it. I put everything in as the specifications require. (We don't require permits and inspections here) I have one neighbor reasonably close, but we get along great. I was uneasy about putting in the wood stove without telling them first. When I did talk to my neighbor, he was totally cool about it.
I have often wondered what would happen if he was adamant against my plans to heat with wood. I guess he could change his mind when I start burning.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is I would much rather him discuss it with me first if he didn't like anything I was doing. Perhaps we could come to some agreement or work something out.
I, personally, would not be happy to have the Fire Marshall show up wanting to come in my house-even though I know him. I would first ask why and want to know who called him. I would then probably tell him to hit the road. Whether it be for the greater good or not, I would not be happy about it, and I don't think your neighbor would be happy about it either.
There is no law against burning green wood for heat here in Alabama. I suspect there is not one there either. So, as I said in my previous post, it may not help matters in the end.
And Elfin, I'm not trying to piss you off, just telling it as I see it.
It takes a hell of a lot more than a discussion with a stranger on an internet forum to piss me off, Nic. I do have a great deal of trouble understanding your mindset, though.
You were actually uneasy about installing a stove? Why in the world would you have concerns about your neighbor's objecting to this, does he have a history of being overly concerned about your lifestyle? Is his bedroom window 10 ft from your chimney? I find this to be extremely bizarre, since woodstoves are a legal and mainstream way of heating one's home. It's great that you are concerned about your neighbor's comfort, however.
To each his own. Good thing we're not neighbors, I guess
You were actually uneasy about installing a stove? Why in the world would you have concerns about your neighbor's objecting to this, does he have a history of being overly concerned about your lifestyle? Is his bedroom window 10 ft from your chimney? I find this to be extremely bizarre, since woodstoves are a legal and mainstream way of heating one's home. It's great that you are concerned about your neighbor's comfort, however.
To each his own. Good thing we're not neighbors, I guess
I see this problem with a house I pass every morning. Nice 3 story that must heat almost entirely with wood because they go thru 5-6 cords a year. There is no wood left after each winter and every summer around June, they get large loads of oak delivered. They start cutting and splitting in the late summer and stack it all up by the beginning of October. Then they start burning it. Plumes of thick white smoke pour from their chimney all winter long. 4 years I have watched them, never have they seasoned their hardwoods longer than a few months. They don't appear to have a clue.
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