The heating of old houses

[Ashful]

Turn back the clock even further to say the renaissance period or before and no wonder why the life expectancy was so low. Life was truly hard!

Way OT, but this is a common misconception. If you go way back to 400 BC and study the Greek philosophers, you will quickly notice most of them lived into their mid-80's. Studying the time further indicates that if you survived into adulthood, you would likely have a life expectancy similar to our own. It was really only during colonial times that life expectancy took a nose dive, due to the dangers of living on the frontier, not so much due to a lack of modern conveniences. I suspect that farmers and business owners in Europe, excepting a few plagues surrounding the Renaissance, were living similarly well.

Also, when looking at "average" life expectancy, the numbers are swayed drastically by infant and childhood mortality, which has been the biggest factor of change in modern times.

 

[Jags]

, but read some warnings against doing that as it could cause permanent damage to the stove.

Yeah - don't burn coal in a stove that wasn't intended to do so. There is also design differences. Coal stoves bring in air from the bottom up.

Now - back to heating old houses.

 

[Ashful]

Ive always found it fascinating to compare notes on our houses Joful, as even though we are in different areas and your place is larger, more ornate and of different construction it seems the builders where in that same transitional period.

Mine's just a simple farm house, no Edwardian or Federal manor! I also suspect yours is a good generation older than mine, no?

edit: just saw your 1795. Thought you had once figured it at 1750, but I may be remembering wrong.

Ive shown my stove hearth before:

View attachment 123534 View attachment 123535

Every time I see that photo, I think it looks like a bricked-in cooking fireplace. However, you are right that iron stoves were indeed popular before your house was built, and so it's almost certain that's what would've been installed in your house. Sort of like building a house on the east coast today without central air... it happens, but not often.

Here's a link to one of the most interesting articles I've read on this subject. The Goshenhoppen region, of which they speak, is where I live. In fact, that monster 60" oak I brought home last spring came from Old Goshenhoppen Church, founded 1732.

(broken link removed to http://www.berksmontnews.com/article/BM/20130328/OPINION03/130329876)

 

[jharkin]

Mine's just a simple farm house, no Edwardian or Federal manor! I also suspect yours is a good generation older than mine, no?

edit: just saw your 1795. Thought you had once figured it at 1750, but I may be remembering wrong.


Every time I see that photo, I think it looks like a bricked-in cooking fireplace. However, you are right that iron stoves were indeed popular before your house was built, and so it's almost certain that's what would've been installed in your house. Sort of like building a house on the east coast today without central air... it happens, but not often.

Here's a link to one of the most interesting articles I've read on this subject. The Goshenhoppen region, of which they speak, is where I live. In fact, that monster 60" oak I brought home last spring came from Old Goshenhoppen Church, founded 1732.

(broken link removed to http://www.berksmontnews.com/article/BM/20130328/OPINION03/130329876)

Yeah, the town dates my house at 1795... But I think its later, maybe as late as 1820-1830. Its really a puzzle as I have some features pointing to an early date - like the 20+ inch floorboards upstairs, but the complete absence of handmade nails, relatively high ceilings, and other elements point to later. Im guessing a bit later but using reclaimed lumber possibly.

Its possible that an older larger fireplace was bricked in, but if they did it was a fantastic job because I cant tell where!

Interesting article I'm reading it now, thanks for sharing.

 

[begreen]

In the old family homes (ca 1750) I looked at, one had a second kitchen/living space in the basement. When the weather got cold, that is where they lived. It was a dirty dark location, but the earthen walls made it easier to heat. They were not wealthy so they had to make do.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ive always found it fascinating to compare notes on our houses Joful, as even though we are in different areas and your place is larger, more ornate and of different construction it seems the builders where in that same transitional period.


Ive shown my stove hearth before:

View attachment 123534 View attachment 123535

The fireplace the stove is in is back in the ell. As best we can tell this is original and the ovens where definitely functional, problem is the fireplace opening is waaaay to small, even if we decide the house is later (1820s). There is an actual crane in the hearth (see second pic) and some evidence it was used as a fireplace but still is way to small to have been used for serious cooking in the 1800s.

The paneling around the hearth is all reproduction, on the back side of the stack under the paneling Ive found a concreted in stove thimble which may have been a summer kitchen stove. Its possible there is a thimble hidden on the front or I've had old house experts suggest they may have shoehorned an early steptop stove into the fireplace opening, something like this:


If only I had a time machine!!

Is there any chance there was a front cover on it and it was used with coal? Boston would probably have been one of the larger markets and would have had access to it pretty early.

"As early as 1748, there was a coal mine near Richmond, VA, but the coal would likely only have been used very locally until the transportation industry developed. By the 1820s, coal was being shipped regularly from Europe to some major coastal American cities, but the cost for overseas transport likely limited the use to only large buildings or homes of the most wealthy. Numerous canals were created by the 1840s, enabling America’s land-locked coal industries the ability to distribute this fossil fuels to many ports, cities, and towns. Horse powered wagons could then provide the local delivery from coal yards to all but the most remote rural homes."

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/blog/the-history-of-coal-heating/

 

[Ashful]

In the old family homes (ca 1750) I looked at, one had a second kitchen/living space in the basement. When the weather got cold, that is where they lived. It was a dirty dark location, but the earthen walls made it easier to heat. They were not wealthy so they had to make do.

A prior owner of my house had told me he suspected one part of my basement was actually part of some earlier dwelling, dating earlier than 1773. He said that even after the current house was built, he believed they used it as a seasonal kitchen. I'm not sure why he felt that, but I will say that the foundation for my fireplace above could have originally been a fireplace itself, and there's a curious cupboard installed in the wall next to this fireplace foundation, giving further credence to the claim that this was once a kitchen. The cupboard door is new, but the interior is very, very old.



Perhaps this is where they spent more time in the coldest of winter days, particularly prior to the 1770's construction of the larger house above.

 

[BurnIt13]

Absolutely beautiful house you've got there Joful! If I somehow could I would build a brand new replica with all the charm but none of the "inconveniences" of these historic homes.

That picture above is more charming than any room in my entire house! I'm truly jealous.

This thread has made me appreciate the convenience of modern heat!

 

[Ashful]

That's the basement, BurnIt13! Perhaps this photo of the door just out of view to the left of the photo above will dissuade you. Yes, that's ice on the door handle.



Old houses are beautiful... until you look real close.

For the record, I have my doubts about the theory of folks living in the basement, at the time this house was built (ca.1773). The house today is no more or less sealed or insulated than it was then, and we do okay upstairs. Certainly warmer upstairs than in the basement, even in the coldest weather we get. I suspect the reports of folks moving into the basement for winter predate the construction of this house by 50 - 100 years, when windows and glass were indeed much more primitive.

 

[Redbarn]

A picture of our Summer Kitchen from a local history book.

Dating uncertain but from the 1770's certainly. Only a single room on each floor.
There is a very large fireplace (hearth) on each floor which are inglenook size and take up about 1/3 of the back walls.
You could stay warm in this place with a fire going. There were sleeping quarters upstairs.
The construction is so stout that it is easy to see that people just added onto or enclosed a structure like this as the houses expanded.

 

[missedbass]

Yup, and in old gravity hot water systems those expansion tanks where often in the attic....


More fun old reading from heatinghelp: (broken link removed to http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/1223/79.pdf)

My friend Dan! I've learned a lot from him!

 

[Ashful]

A picture of our Summer Kitchen from a local history book.
Dating uncertain but from the 1770's certainly. Only a single room on each floor.
There is a very large fireplace (hearth) on each floor which are inglenook size and take up about 1/3 of the back walls.
You could stay warm in this place with a fire going. There were sleeping quarters upstairs.
The construction is so stout that it is easy to see that people just added onto or enclosed a structure like this as the houses expanded.

Nice! My 85 year old uncle lives in a house built around 1740, which his grandfather purchased in 1840. The 1740 portion of the house fits the description of yours, with one room on each floor, and a fireplace that takes up almost the entire rear wall of the house. I don't know the width, but it makes mine look absolutely miniscule, and it's much larger than the 8 footer at my aunt's farm pictured above. The house was expanded in the early 1800's, and the new portion contains four more fireplaces, sized for heating (not cooking). It was my childhood dream to someday own that house... then I got married to a woman who has different ideas.

 

[Flamestead]

Our 9th fireplace is in the cellar, along with a second bread oven. People have referred to this as a summer kitchen. I had not heard stories of people retreating to basements in the winter, so the summer kitchen story made some sense to me. This is a walk-out basement, and the 'kitchen' is in a front room of the basement. Unfortunately the fireplace was bricked over, and all the bricks are suffering some degradation, plus an owner in 1970 plopped an oil hot-air furnace right in front of it.

 

[Dustin92]

Our house is pretty new compared to most here, built in 1950, I am pretty sure it was originally heated with a gravity furnace (probably gas, there is still old,old,old cast iron pipes going to our current furnace) , all the hot air registers are pretty much central, all on inside walls, while the returns are on the outside walls. About 25 years ago a high efficiency gas furnace was installed, but the heat still flows from the registers, even after the furnace has shut off. There is an original fireplace (in the basement of all places, pretty sure it is an early heatform) An insert was installed in 1991, and we have been trying to heat with the insert (rather unsucessfully I might add) for the last two years. I sometimes wonder why the fireplace was built in the basement, which was just two wide open rooms until about 15 years ago. The stairs to the basement came in originally through the unheated garage, and at some point a stairwell was built to connect the basement to the upstairs.

 

[eclecticcottage]

Our house is pretty new compared to most here, built in 1950, I am pretty sure it was originally heated with a gravity furnace (probably gas, there is still old,old,old cast iron pipes going to our current furnace) , all the hot air registers are pretty much central, all on inside walls, while the returns are on the outside walls. About 25 years ago a high efficiency gas furnace was installed, but the heat still flows from the registers, even after the furnace has shut off. There is an original fireplace (in the basement of all places, pretty sure it is an early heatform) An insert was installed in 1991, and we have been trying to heat with the insert (rather unsucessfully I might add) for the last two years. I sometimes wonder why the fireplace was built in the basement, which was just two wide open rooms until about 15 years ago. The stairs to the basement came in originally through the unheated garage, and at some point a stairwell was built to connect the basement to the upstairs.

My grandparents house had a basement fireplace and one above in the livingroom. I don't know if it was designed that way or he added it-my mom said they lived in the basement for a while while the house was finished. I assumed that was the reason for it, since I never saw it used (it was in his workshop part of the basement-he was a carpenter). He built the house around 1966.

 

[laynes69]

Here is a picture my wife took a while back in black and white. Unfortunately, years ago the fancy woodwork that surrounded the windows was removed. Also inside most of the woodwork was removed, but luckily we still have the original doors. The roof at one time had build in gutters, which over time deteriorated and were removed. I would give anything to see what our house looked like in its glory days, but I have yet to find any pictures of it. I also don't know the exact date it was built, due to a fire that had destroyed records years ago. I do know our barn was built in 1880, which is hand painted above the 2 doors.

 

[Redbarn]

Nice! My 85 year old uncle lives in a house built around 1740, which his grandfather purchased in 1840. The 1740 portion of the house fits the description of yours, with one room on each floor, and a fireplace that takes up almost the entire rear wall of the house. I don't know the width, but it makes mine look absolutely miniscule, and it's much larger than the 8 footer at my aunt's farm pictured above. The house was expanded in the early 1800's, and the new portion contains four more fireplaces, sized for heating (not cooking). It was my childhood dream to someday own that house... then I got married to a woman who has different ideas.

Our houses reflect the transition of wood to coal for domestic heating. Our Summer House was the original dwelling on the farm and was set up for heating and cooking with wood. As the family prospered, in the early 1810s they built the main house out of brick (an expensive undertaking) and built it to use coal. We are situated less than a mile from a then newly built canal that connected to the coal region in PA, so this was a forward thinking idea. The rooms each have a small fireplace for a coal fire. They did hedge by putting a large wood burning hearth in either end of the basement in case coal was ever in short supply.