I'm leaning toward the chimney cap too. I had a similar issue with no draft and a seemingly clear chimney. My cap has a bird screen around it. With temps just right and steam/condensation exiting the chimney it ended up plugging the screen with ice. With the height of your chimney, your exit temps are probably pretty low. Can you get up on the roof and look at it? The bird screen is coming off this spring!!
The Great Greenwood Smokeout
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I know zero about GW's except for I saw one once, very impressive and what I've read on here.
In time, with these guy's help, I'm sure you'll get it running. I would suggest that you disconnect your chimney from stove in basement and get something smoking right at the base of the chimney opening. If the smoke goes up you have positive pressure or a good draft. If the smoke doesn't want to go up the pipe and is getting pushed back into the basement you have negative pressure. If you have that situation then go up and take the cap off and try again. I have a negative pressure house so I run without a barometric damper and I have a draft inducing cap on my chimney top made by http://www.vacustack.com/ The more the wind blows (higher negative pressure) the more the draft is increased, naturally, by the wind blowing over the cap.
I probably loose a little efficiency but it works for me...
There was a post about GW's where the stove had gotten clogged in the rear. For what ever reason this had led to corrosion issues. Or, there was a bad weld and when he opened up the back to fix the weld he found corrosion. Something like this... Anyway... I would talk with other owners about modifying the back to get easier access to the insides of your stoves when you open it up the first time. Do the mods now so in the future you don't have any more work than necessary to get access to the insides for regular cleaning.
I'll go out on a limb and say that any wood burning equipment will need to be thoroughly cleaned 1 to 2 times a year. Not only for efficiency, but preventive maintenance and safety.
There have been a bunch of posts on the GW's on this forum. When time allows try to read up there are a many pictures too. Problems and problems SOLVED. They are different and burn differently than other stoves, but keep after it and once you get it sorted out you'll have one kick ass stove.
Best of luck, Rob
In time, with these guy's help, I'm sure you'll get it running. I would suggest that you disconnect your chimney from stove in basement and get something smoking right at the base of the chimney opening. If the smoke goes up you have positive pressure or a good draft. If the smoke doesn't want to go up the pipe and is getting pushed back into the basement you have negative pressure. If you have that situation then go up and take the cap off and try again. I have a negative pressure house so I run without a barometric damper and I have a draft inducing cap on my chimney top made by http://www.vacustack.com/ The more the wind blows (higher negative pressure) the more the draft is increased, naturally, by the wind blowing over the cap.
I probably loose a little efficiency but it works for me...
There was a post about GW's where the stove had gotten clogged in the rear. For what ever reason this had led to corrosion issues. Or, there was a bad weld and when he opened up the back to fix the weld he found corrosion. Something like this... Anyway... I would talk with other owners about modifying the back to get easier access to the insides of your stoves when you open it up the first time. Do the mods now so in the future you don't have any more work than necessary to get access to the insides for regular cleaning.
I'll go out on a limb and say that any wood burning equipment will need to be thoroughly cleaned 1 to 2 times a year. Not only for efficiency, but preventive maintenance and safety.
There have been a bunch of posts on the GW's on this forum. When time allows try to read up there are a many pictures too. Problems and problems SOLVED. They are different and burn differently than other stoves, but keep after it and once you get it sorted out you'll have one kick ass stove.
Best of luck, Rob
If you have the back of your boiler plugged it will smoke out the pipes. There is no draft when its plugged and the smoke just comes out everywhere. You have to have air movement to get draft. If I take my pipes loose I have great draft. Put the pipes back together and if the back isn't clean the boiler will smoke.I have to clean mine at least 3-4 times a winter. I am burning well seasoned wood and I only batch burn with a timer, no idling to soot it up, it just happens in this style boiler. Just be ready for a mess. Good Luck
While I respect Mule's observation of his unit, I don't think having to rip the back off and clean it 3-4 times a year is common. I probably shouldn't say this, but, I've never had the back or sides off mine. I have had the top off (for a different reason) and you can clean the tubes in the back pretty well with just the top off.
I will tell you another way to clean the tubes . . . as they say in the commercials, "Don't try this at home" :coolsmirk:
With the GW up to temp and a small fire going, unplug it. The lack of circulation in the water will eventually turn the tubes cherry red. This will unstick all the creosote from the HX. After it cools - say 36 hours - clean the combustion chamber, pull the stove pipe and clean out the back (scoop out through the stove pipe exit) reassemble, and fire it up!! Of course, my GW is in a detached outbuilding, so please be careful!.
Maybe someone with some better technical expertise than I can chime in here . . .
You still have not measured the draft which is highly suspect at this point. Can you measure the draft at various points (both with and without being connected to the back of the GW) to see where the draft problem is coming from?
And just a general observation . . . the GW seems to have a b!tch of a learning curve. Do not be suprised when a problem you were sure was being caused by one thing, ends up being caused by something else.
When I am having trouble with the GW, I implement Deere's advice . . . "Get back to the basics"
Jimbo
I will tell you another way to clean the tubes . . . as they say in the commercials, "Don't try this at home" :coolsmirk:
With the GW up to temp and a small fire going, unplug it. The lack of circulation in the water will eventually turn the tubes cherry red. This will unstick all the creosote from the HX. After it cools - say 36 hours - clean the combustion chamber, pull the stove pipe and clean out the back (scoop out through the stove pipe exit) reassemble, and fire it up!! Of course, my GW is in a detached outbuilding, so please be careful!.
Maybe someone with some better technical expertise than I can chime in here . . .
You still have not measured the draft which is highly suspect at this point. Can you measure the draft at various points (both with and without being connected to the back of the GW) to see where the draft problem is coming from?
And just a general observation . . . the GW seems to have a b!tch of a learning curve. Do not be suprised when a problem you were sure was being caused by one thing, ends up being caused by something else.
When I am having trouble with the GW, I implement Deere's advice . . . "Get back to the basics"
Jimbo
You're right, I haven't measured the draft. I was out when they came by to install the DI and I don't have the equipment here myself, although I'll need to get it. That's my next step, together with taking off the chimney cap to see if it is clogged.
BTW, I've got an expansion tank on top, so the top of the GW won't be coming off anytime soon.
BTW, I've got an expansion tank on top, so the top of the GW won't be coming off anytime soon.
I agree with Jimbo, cleaning the heat exchanger is best done by accident, ie overheat. I have never taken the sides or top off in four years but an overheat in the 1st season gave me an idea. Do this at your our risk; Get GW up to temp and let it burn down 75%. Unplug GW. Close all valves so no heat can get to any pex lines. Carefully open top purge valve quarter way to let off hot water and steam. Three hours and your tubes will be clean as new. It helps to let the GW cool off before adding water back in. This process will cause your low water shut off to leak when the water cools, so be ready for that. This will void your warranty, but WGAF.
Well, I think I might have solved the problem. I got up on the roof, which is kind of tricky given the snow and pitch, and looked at the chimney cap. There was a wire mesh on the inside to keep out birds and I noticed at once that it was gunked up with creosote. Just tapping it removed about 90% of the buildup. I used some wire cutters and partially cut it out and will cut the rest out if it still proves to be a problem. I'm thinking I'll try to find a different cap setup in spring that is better suited to a wood boiler. This seems like the kind you would have if you were burning oil.
So I relit the boiler and have a small kindling fire going and already I have noticed a big difference. Very little visible smoke coming out the top and no smoking at the seams of the chimney. I have the doors to far basement wide open and the fan going, just in case, but I'm hoping this will be enough for now.
I've been fairly fortunate in that I have an oil furnace backup and my inn has been relatively quiet of guests. We have a full house this weekend though and then we get to President's Week, which is the busiest week of the year, so I've got to be sure it's running reliably by then.
Thanks everyone for their help. I'll be sticking around.
Bwahaha.
So I relit the boiler and have a small kindling fire going and already I have noticed a big difference. Very little visible smoke coming out the top and no smoking at the seams of the chimney. I have the doors to far basement wide open and the fan going, just in case, but I'm hoping this will be enough for now.
I've been fairly fortunate in that I have an oil furnace backup and my inn has been relatively quiet of guests. We have a full house this weekend though and then we get to President's Week, which is the busiest week of the year, so I've got to be sure it's running reliably by then.
Thanks everyone for their help. I'll be sticking around.
tigermaple said:
Bwahaha.
Sounds good, I think your boiler will work now, however, you will probably get hotter burns and more efficiency if you completely remove that cap. If you only partially removed the screen you still may not have eliminated enough of the restriction to prevent some smoke from backing up into the basement, especially when you really get it cranking. But it looks like at least you'll be able to use it without smoking out your guests this weekend ! Good luck, and get rid of that damn cap ! LOL
i have a cap, but only held on by 3 straps and some times on a full load the smoke will pour out till thing get cooking inthe fire box. good luck.
what warranty? the are out of business. my pipes just get sooty. a good stiff metal boiler brush on a long handle works great . i can get the top and bottom rows.
My chimney cap is a 5 gal bucket. Fits nicely on an 8" Metalbestos chimney. Goes on in April, comes off in October ;-)
Rock on
Rock on
Just finished the 4 hour job of cleaning my boiler. Only a little blood today and one trip to town for supplies. As suspected the back was plugged, got it all scraped down and back to working. Wish I knew what the answer was to keep it clean. Exhaust temp is over 500* most of the time, wish I could get that lower but when I do I run into trouble. If a person had automated controls to slow the draft inducer way down after it gets hot might help. Guess I could buy a Frohling, maybe if I win the lottery.
Muleman,
Maybe you could add an automatic timer that comes on when the inducer comes on and then shuts it off after a said amount of time. I've been thinking of doing that, because I only need the draft inducer for the first couple of minutes.
Maybe you could add an automatic timer that comes on when the inducer comes on and then shuts it off after a said amount of time. I've been thinking of doing that, because I only need the draft inducer for the first couple of minutes.
JUst wire it in the damper. when the damper opens on comes the inducer.One draw back is as the fire burns down you are pulling heat out the stack that you really dont want to. may a timer on the inducer with the damper.
KingM said:Well, I think I might have solved the problem. I got up on the roof, which is kind of tricky given the snow and pitch, and looked at the chimney cap. There was a wire mesh on the inside to keep out birds and I noticed at once that it was gunked up with creosote. Just tapping it removed about 90% of the buildup. I used some wire cutters and partially cut it out and will cut the rest out if it still proves to be a problem. I'm thinking I'll try to find a different cap setup in spring that is better suited to a wood boiler. This seems like the kind you would have if you were burning oil.
So I relit the boiler and have a small kindling fire going and already I have noticed a big difference. Very little visible smoke coming out the top and no smoking at the seams of the chimney. I have the doors to far basement wide open and the fan going, just in case, but I'm hoping this will be enough for now.
I've been fairly fortunate in that I have an oil furnace backup and my inn has been relatively quiet of guests. We have a full house this weekend though and then we get to President's Week, which is the busiest week of the year, so I've got to be sure it's running reliably by then.
Thanks everyone for their help. I'll be sticking around.
tigermaple said:
Bwahaha.
Dad used to have one of those wire mesh things... "Keeps birds out." I think I saw "WGAF" earlier... I like birds, but can spare the occasional one that is dumb enough to fly down a chimney and die. That POS mesh thing got hogged up so bad it wasn't funny. When I went up on the roof to investigate, I drilled the rivets out holding the thing on and tried to lift it off, I thought it was stuck. It was just weighed down with about 75 pounds of creosote. That thing had ever caught fire, they'd have seen the glow for miles... likely would have ignited the house.
Cleaned the chimney and lit her up... slick as a smelt.
I prefer the little peaked caps with three metal bands holding the thing up and a ring around the stack, or a square band. Simple to pop off and clean, nothing to get bogged down with creosote.
Glad to hear you likely have this problem licked and things are functioning as planned now. Always learning, always learning.
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