The Buck stops here; 91 Bay Heater install under way!

[Woody Stover]

I wonder how big a bay will this thing heat? Massachusetts? Green? Hudson?
I'm not sure about the 4.4 cu.ft. fire box claim. The fire box tapers to the back like the floor of many masonry fireplaces, so I squared it off with a measurement across, half way back. Looks like 21x21x10...a little over 2.5 sq.ft. Am I missing something? Maybe the 4.4 is without fire brick, heat shield and combustor box...and leaving the load door open. Regardless, I believe it will do a good job of heating my MIL's house. It's 1750 sq.ft. downstairs (don't need to heat upstairs.) No insulation in the walls. The layout isn't the best; The stove room is at one end, in a room with old windows on three sides. I may have to move cool air back to the stove room when Winter sets in but I think in the Fall, it may circulate adequately from the room (two arched 36" doorways.) My MIL has been closing off a few frequently-used rooms and heating them with ceramic electric heat

I picked up the stove Saturday (well, me and three other guys.) Stove is four years old, got it for $1000. I think I did OK for once.

Welds look good. No warping that I could see, except the heat shield under the combustor. Couple of cracked bricks...
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Here, you can see the air wash screen in front of the larger holes in back of that channel. This is the primary air, controlled by a slider under the right-side ash lip.

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This is the "Shot Gun Air" V-channel, half way back in the fire box, controlled by the left-side slider.
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Combustor and box look to be in good shape. But there's an expanded-metal grid under the combustor (which is warped) and I accidentally put pressure on it when handling the box, which pushed the combustor out of the box and disturbed the interam gasket. I guess I'll just go ahead and wash the combustor in hot 50/50 water/vinegar solution. I've got a roll of interam gasket around here somewhere. We have a Buck dealer here, so that's handy. I'll pick up a new heat shield, expanded-metal cat support, cat box gasket and a few fire bricks. Shouldn't be too expensive...
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Here is the Heater's new home. The sides of the masonry fire box are square, not tapered in at the back. Hard to see in these pics for some reason, but there's a row of bricks standing on edge behind the row of flat top bricks of the back wall. Behind that is a vertical rear wall of brick. Looks like I'll have to takeout the three top-center flat bricks, then trim the next course even with the bottom edge of the bricks in that course. All in all, not too much work. You can see the bottom of the 8" HD RoundFlex liner that was on the previous insert. It connects to rigid pipe when it gets into the clay liner. It's insulated all the way up and is an internal chimney...21'. I'll remove the top-row bricks, then go after the next course with an angle grinder and concrete wheel, with a fan in a window to blow the dust up the chimney, hopefully.

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[davidmc]

I think you will like it....I like mine.
One think I would like is it to have a little more height in the firebox.
I get 12 to 14 hrs on a packed load.
Enjoy

David

 

[mellow]

Glad to see they had a cat probe in it, shows they cared about what temps they ran it at. Looks good overall, can't wait to see the final install pics.

 

[rideau]

Good looking stove, nice thing you are doing for your MIL. I'm sure there will be lots of nights when she is blessing you for helping her stay warm. The nice big, front load door should be easy for her too. Looks like you can put long lengths in there, either direction. Box does look a little shallow....at 10 inches, I guess you will want to keep splits at 5 inch and less in order to get two layers in. Probably better for her, anyway, if they aren't too heavy. Look forward to seeing the install photos.

 

[Woody Stover]

I think you will like it....I like mine.
One think I would like is it to have a little more height in the firebox.
I get 12 to 14 hrs on a packed load.
Enjoy

David

Yeah, really it isn't very tall at all. I'm glad to have plenty of clearance for attaching the chimney, though... I love the look of that plain black hunk of iron. It looks foreboding. The bay windows look a little dirty, not like the front glass; Have you found that to be normal on yours? I don't know how dry this guy's wood was; I haven't talked to him yet but I'm going to try to contact him to chat a bit. I'll also talk to maflake (down the block from me) who has had the 91 a couple of years, and see how he runs his. I'll probably start an "operations" thread when I get this bad boy in place. Boozie runs the 91 also but I'm not sure if she's been around lately. With everyone's input I'm sure the learning curve will be less steep for me.
I'm sure I will love operating this stove and my MIL is going to love the heat. Heh-heh, more brownie points for me!
The long burns will be great. In reading some other 91 threads, 12 hr. burns were mention by several owners...WoodpileOCD said he wasn't even burning high-power wood. I think it was eujamfh that mentioned 30-hour low burns.
Someone is usually going over there every twelve hours now, so running the stove for her isn't going to require any extra trips into town. I could see if my 90+ MIL can load a 20# split but I doubt it.

Glad to see they had a cat probe in it, shows they cared about what temps they ran it at. Looks good overall, can't wait to see the final install pics.

I was a little concerned when I saw the warped heat shield, and didn't have a chance to pull it and look above it before I bought, but with this stove's reputation as a tank, I wasn't too worried. In the other threads, I saw several people saying the cat can go to the moon if you're not careful (1800+.) I'll be judicious with the amount of air supplied and will use big splits to control off-gassing, and I'll start out low and slow when learning the stove.

nice thing you are doing for your MIL. Looks like you can put long lengths in there, either direction. Box does look a little shallow....at 10 inches, I guess you will want to keep splits at 5 inch and less in order to get two layers in.

Thanks...she's done more for me than I could ever repay, so I'm happy to do it. Plus I'm nuts about these stoves anyway, and it's just fun for me. Can't wait to fire this bad boy up!
Haven't read the entire manual yet but they recommend N/S loading, probably to protect the glass...

 

[BrowningBAR]

Sweet.

Chicks dig a big box.

Wait. That sounds wrong.

 

[Woody Stover]

Sweet.

Chicks dig a big box.

Wait. That sounds wrong.

Yeah, should be...dig a long burn with a big log.
It's going to be quite a change from running my stoves, with sub-2 cu.ft. boxes...

 

[BrowningBAR]

Yeah, should be...dig a long burn with a big log.
It's going to be quite a change from running my stoves, with sub-2 cu.ft. boxes...

It was weird for me when I went to the Defiant and it's even weirder going to the 30 do to the fact this is my first square firebox. I keep treating it like a VC/Heritage firebox which is quite shallow.

I put in a log yesterday and it rolled all the way to the back of the firebox out of sight and my initial reaction was "crap, the log rolled out of the stove... wait. That's not right..."

 

[Todd]

Nice find, your a good sil. The fire box dimensions surprise me, thought it would be bigger.

 

[clemsonfor]

Looks a lot like my HIgh Valley 2500. Although HV claims a 3.5Cuft firebox. I get those same burn times you talk about. I keep 2500ish sqft warm with it and i have an old home plan with rooms not open.

The air wash in mine looks identical to mine. The top is different where the cats hook into it. And i only have 2 cats about the size of those.

NO the bay windows dont stay clean on my HV. The first fire or 2 you can see flames then they get black carobon on them. Unless your running wide open you cant see anything through them. If you have a super hot fire you can burn some of it off but it just comes bach when it cools. The glass will stay crystal clear unless your burning damp wood.

 

[clemsonfor]

For reference, i got my HighValley at the local Buck stove store used. They think it was 5-6 years old? i would of agreed with that. I paid $900. They gave me a new trim kit (had to repaint though to match the stove color as they changed colors!! but they gave me the paint!), said they replaced the Cats, and gave me a 1yr warrenty. I was in there looking for a free stander stove, saw they had a buck91 in, but it was sold, so probably sold it for a similar price? Maybe more, but prolly the same, as that store also sells new HV so its not like they were just discounting something they dont sell. They get these stoves on changeouts they said. They sell the EPA newer stoves for like $900 used and the older like craft stoves and fishers for $450. They redo all of them with new gaskets if needed new blowers if needed and clean and repaint.

 

[corey21]

Looks like a good looking unit congrats.

 

[eujamfh]

You probably don't need a new heat shield. I just replaced mine, and after about five days of burning, it was warped. Not nearly as bad as the one replaced, but its warped nonetheless. When I originally called Buck, they stated so long as its burning with no airflow restriction there was no need to replace. Since I had the stove broken down and it was only $35 I put a new one in. The newer models like yours have a couple "L" supports that should help warping...but it definitely is not flat like new.

Your MIL will love it. With good dry wood, 10-14 hour burns is easy. In the shoulder season...it will run 20 hours for us.

 

[mellow]

The bay windows are for looks, no air wash on any of the bay windows on the stoves that I am aware of. Same thing happens on mine, after a good low burn the bay windows are blacked out, from the few fires I had so far even a good hot fire still didn't clean them up due to the lack of an air wash.

 

[Woody Stover]

I got a better pic of the top of the rear wall in the fireplace. It doesn't appear that removing the top bricks would compromise the structural integrity of the fireplace...
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For reference, i got my HighValley at the local Buck stove store used. They think it was 5-6 years old? i would of agreed with that. I paid $900. They gave me a new trim kit (had to repaint though to match the stove color as they changed colors!! but they gave me the paint!), said they replaced the Cats, and gave me a 1yr warrenty. I was in there looking for a free stander stove, saw they had a buck91 in, but it was sold, so probably sold it for a similar price? Maybe more, but prolly the same, as that store also sells new HV so its not like they were just discounting something they dont sell. They get these stoves on changeouts they said. They sell the EPA newer stoves for like $900 used and the older like craft stoves and fishers for $450. They redo all of them with new gaskets if needed new blowers if needed and clean and repaint.

I was just looking at the HV 2500; Looks almost like a re-badged Buck but on the EPA certified page, it shows them made by High Valley Corp. I see it's $2300 as opposed to $3000...
Good idea on looking for trade-ins. I'll have to tell the dealers here that I might be interested in used stoves that they come across...

You probably don't need a new heat shield. I just replaced mine, and after about five days of burning, it was warped. Not nearly as bad as the one replaced, but its warped nonetheless. When I originally called Buck, they stated so long as its burning with no airflow restriction there was no need to replace. Since I had the stove broken down and it was only $35 I put a new one in. The newer models like yours have a couple "L" supports that should help warping...but it definitely is not flat like new.

I saw that newer heat shield design at the stove shop last night. Mine has three 4" rails on the top of the shield in the back, the one I saw on a new 91 at the shop has two rails on the bottom, the full length of the shield. He said it was about $40, so I may just go ahead and get one.

As you may be able to see, the old insert was a slammer install for a long time before the liner went in several years back. The smoke chamber has quite a bit of hard creosote on the walls, and it can be a little stinky at times. I may take a wire wheel to some of the lower creo, then seal off the smoke chamber with a block-off plate fashioned from a batt of Roxul. That should help with the occasional odor.

Trying to figure out what parts to get for the stove is a chore. They have a few listed on the Buck website, like an 8" connector that I may be able to use, but have no pic or descriptions. Servicesales.com also had a few parts listed, but the most extensive list was at http://buckstoveparts.com/shop/?m=BUCK STOVE MODEL 91
I need to figure out how to attach the chimney to the stove, which has no flue collar, just a hole in the top of the stove. The previous owner's install had the pipe dropping into the hole, and then they put some kind of furnace cement around the joint. We know what happens then; All the cement had cracked and fallen away and was lying on top of the stove. The manual mentions an "optional NBC cast chimney connector" which I take to be some sort of a flue collar. Later, there is this pic referencing "clips."



That might be the way to go if it would save me from having to go up on the roof and try to lift the liner up. The top of the chimney is so tall that it's all I can do to even see down the flue pipe, and there's not much room to stand on top of the chimney. It all depends on how far the elbow drops down (I'm thinking I need a 30* elbow to get from the end of the liner into the top of the stove.) I will look later, but does anyone know offhand if the offset charts will tell me how far an 8" 30* elbow will drop? It's 4.5" from the bottom of the flex to the top of the stove. I'd also like to hear from 91 burners that know how the pipe on their stove was connected...anybody?

 

[mellow]

You will need an 8" appliance connector:
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That will attached to the flex, then that gets inserted into the hole of the insert, you should see some screw holes to screw an L bracket into so that holds the connector to the stove.

 

[mellow]

Copied from the FPX insert install so you can see the L brackets.

 

[Woody Stover]

You will need an 8" appliance connector:
That will attached to the flex, then that gets inserted into the hole of the insert, you should see some screw holes to screw an L bracket into so that holds the connector to the stove.

Copied from the FPX insert install so you can see the L brackets.

I don't think I will be able to bend the flex at all; It appears to be HomeSaver HD RoundFlex. I have that stuff lining my chimney, and it is pretty stout. The flex is already at an angle to the top of the stove and it looks like maybe a 30* elbow would turn down about the right amount to go straight into the top of the stove...if the length of the elbow is right.

I would like to avoid drilling the top if at all possible, that's why those clips looked good. I'm assuming the clips would hook around the flue exit hole, then you would drill the clip and screw into the pipe/elbow.

 

[mellow]

Your best bet, call Buck stoves, from that picture you posted it looks like regular L brackets but I could be wrong. Not sure what it would "clip" to on the exhaust.

Make sure you stick with stainless for your elbow, from the looks of it a 45 deg elbow might work.

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[Woody Stover]

Your best bet, call Buck stoves, from that picture you posted it looks like regular L brackets but I could be wrong. Not sure what it would "clip" to on the exhaust.

Make sure you stick with stainless for your elbow, from the looks of it a 45 deg elbow might work.

Yeah, I think this is HomeSaver liner so I would get their stainless 304 elbow.
I'll call Buck and try to get the low-down on some of these parts. The local dealer didn't seem to be up to speed on them, either...

I'm picturing the clip as something like this:

 

[clemsonfor]

I know on the HV there is a seperate metal round piece that is detachable to use with a liner. I hate to admit that im running as a slammer right now till the cash for the liner.

 

[Woody Stover]

I know on the HV there is a seperate metal round piece that is detachable to use with a liner. I hate to admit that im running as a slammer right now till the cash for the liner.

Yeah, one part I found was a "chimney connector." Maybe that is what you have. No pics anywhere online though.
Slammer? Can you at least run some pipe up to the clay liner?

 

[Woody Stover]

I talked to member maflake today. He lives down the block and has run his 91 for a couple of years now. His has got the gold door, which looks pretty sharp.
Maybe I shouldn't have gone down there; It sounds like he's going to recruit me to help him get out some wood that is down at his place. That's OK; He doesn't know it yet but I'm going to recruit him to help me move the stove!

 

[clemsonfor]

I think it would be a strange install to just pipe it to the liner? I dont know what would hold it in place?

Also i have the gold door and windows. We did not think we would like it at first. Wife hates gold/brass. I does look sharp though. And its real gold leaf as well, better than brass as you dont have to polish it. I think it adds hundreds to the price of the stove when new. I think Stoll quit making the gold door but when i bought mine the company still made then then and i think my stove as it sits was sold in the showroom for a bit over $2500!!

 

[davidmc]

Woody,
mine has a large heavy duty cast, if I remember correctly, connector and gasket that fits flush to the top of the stove.
It connects with 3 L brackets that are inside of the connector down inside the stove and out of sight. Good looking fit.

My bay windows blackened up the first fire and have been that way ever since. I tried to clean them but they are a b#*$% to get to....lol.

My cat temps will exceed 2000 degrees but the Buck rep guy @ Bucks plant told me not to worry that they were good at far greater temp than that......now I just let her eat.

David