The BK King vs Quadrafire Adventure III?

[webby3650]

Why not put the stove on the main level so you can enjoy it and not need to run the crap out of it? You can always add a stove in the basement if you make it a livable space. An unfinished basement is a pretty terrible place to heat from, heat rises but it also gets sucked through the basement walls at an alarming rate!

 

[BKVP]

The 95% thing came from BKVP on another thread and I believe it. Once you get a stove that stays running for 30-40 hours you just don't need to play catch up anymore. Now, I also have a shop stove that intentionally is run at max output all of the time. That's one of the reasons it is a non-cat.

I can't wait to see what the next good non-cat improvements are. I am especially fond of improvements that allow longer burn times without catalysts.

Cat stoves are more than just "low and slow" stoves. They have a high setting too and even at high setting they kill the non-cats for burn time. The tradeoff if that dang cat maintenance/lifespan issue and not burning trash.

Both manufacturers and state/fed regulators claim 80% of wood burners burn on low 80% of the time. Every single product brochure ONLY advertises low burn times. By our own admission as manufacturers, that is what consumers want.

 

[BKVP]

The 95% thing came from BKVP on another thread and I believe it. Once you get a stove that stays running for 30-40 hours you just don't need to play catch up anymore. Now, I also have a shop stove that intentionally is run at max output all of the time. That's one of the reasons it is a non-cat.

I can't wait to see what the next good non-cat improvements are. I am especially fond of improvements that allow longer burn times without catalysts.

Cat stoves are more than just "low and slow" stoves. They have a high setting too and even at high setting they kill the non-cats for burn time. The tradeoff if that dang cat maintenance/lifespan issue and not burning trash.

Both manufacturers and state/fed regulators claim 80% of wood burners burn on low 80% of the time. Every single product brochure ONLY advertises low burn times. By our own admission as manufacturers, that is what consumers want.

And I am not trying to put down cat stoves in any way at all. Just saying they are not necessarily the right choice for everyone. I easily get 12 hours without kindling if i am burning oak or better. I consider burn time usable heat though. And with good wood i can get 10 hours if i am not pushing it hard. 6 to 8 if I am. I Have a 30 foot chimney so mine always has the air shut all the way after it gets hot. Then i control it more with a stack damper. And allot of the control of my heat output comes from wood species. I will say a thermostat would be much easier but It works fine for me.

If a person(s) are retired and enjoy tending the fire, some do, than there are lots of stoves to choose from. However, if you and your significant other must both work all day, 12 hours every day, a larger, longer burning wood stove is ideal. The last "X" number of hours in a stove that burns 12 hours, is loosing BTU output for the last several hours. The same can be said for a stove that burns 30 or 40 hours. But if the last 10-20% of the burn time is diminished BTU output, the bigger, more efficient stove is hard to beat for the longer burn times.

 

[Highbeam]

Both manufacturers and state/fed regulators claim 80% of wood burners burn on low 80% of the time. Every single product brochure ONLY advertises low burn times. By our own admission as manufacturers, that is what consumers want.

If a person(s) are retired and enjoy tending the fire, some do, than there are lots of stoves to choose from. However, if you and your significant other must both work all day, 12 hours every day, a larger, longer burning wood stove is ideal. The last "X" number of hours in a stove that burns 12 hours, is loosing BTU output for the last several hours. The same can be said for a stove that burns 30 or 40 hours. But if the last 10-20% of the burn time is diminished BTU output, the bigger, more efficient stove is hard to beat for the longer burn times.

80%, not 95%. I believe I switched those statistics with the 95% of cat failures are from door leaks. So many numbers.

I am almost certain though that BK gives high output burn times as well as low. It is important to point out that even on high, you just can't burn up a load of fuel very fast. 10 hours, 12 hours, I'll go get the link. Compare to 3 hours for my NC30! And as always, burn times have nothing to do with the space being heated. It is a performance specification of the appliance. Referring to the building heat loss being related to the burn times is like saying the top speed of a corvette is based on the twistiness of the road.

 

[Highbeam]

(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-princess.html)

The link above shows the princess burns 10 hours of constant heat output on high. So at least one manufacturer provides the spec.

Every single product brochure ONLY advertises low burn times.

 

[bholler]

However, if you and your significant other must both work all day, 12 hours every day, a larger, longer burning wood stove is ideal.

We both work all day and our regency tube stove works just fine for us. I know for some people it wont and in that case they need to look at cat stoves. And yes as long as that stove is putting out enough btus in that long burn that is great. But by stretching out the burn time you are stretching out the available btus over a longer time. Again i am not bashing cat stoves at all. I am just pointing out that despite what some here say people can heat their houses just fine with non cats even if they work all day

Referring to the building heat loss being related to the burn times is like saying the top speed of a corvette is based on the twistiness of the road.

I never said building heat loss had anything to do with burn times. I said that in reference to your comment that if you get 30 to 40 hour burn times you wont be playing catch up. And if that stove is not putting out enough btus to counter the heat loss you will be playing catch up. I know heat loss has nothing to to with burn times But just because you get long burn times does not mean the stove is heating your house well either.

 

[JA600L]

What is the warranty on the electrics of the Quadra-Fire?

 

[SCOTT S.]

Why not put the stove on the main level so you can enjoy it and not need to run the crap out of it? You can always add a stove in the basement if you make it a livable space. An unfinished basement is a pretty terrible place to heat from, heat rises but it also gets sucked through the basement walls at an alarming rate!

I couldn't agree more stoves are space heaters put the stove in the area you are in the most and enjoy it. I was worried about freezing pipes in the basement heating with wood on the main floor, 2 years and no problems yet.

 

[webby3650]

What is the warranty on the electrics of the Quadra-Fire?

Since it's primarily an office furniture company I'm sure they back all electronics for an extended period of time.

 

[begreen]

What is the warranty on the electrics of the Quadra-Fire?

Electrics have a 2 yr warranty.

 

[volunbeer]

To clarify a couple of things - we don't want the stove in the den because (poor design) the den/family is not large enough to keep a big heater from burning us out so putting the big stove in the basement makes more sense (also would be a more difficult install because we would have to box in the pipe through center of the house for the den because of windows.

The basement is sheetrocked - just have never gotten around to doing all the mud and tape. It is fully insulated and we even insulated between the floors when we hung the sheetrock.

 

[begreen]

Insulation between the floors is good for noise isolation, but not for heating with stove from basement. Could the stove go in another room? Can you post a sketch of the main floor plan?

 

[volunbeer]

The master is the biggest room on the main floor - outside of that we have 4 equal rooms in quadrants - den/kitchen/living room/dining room. It is a formal floorplan and large staircase is right in middle of the floor. Wife is not going to give up one of these rooms to put a stove in. I am very confident that we can move the heat upstairs in the house from the basement so I am just trying to figure out if I go with the proven big stove or the unproven stove that promises big performance. I do have some faith in Quadrafire, but the BK is a stove I have always liked and I have never met someone who did not love theirs.

Basement will be easiest install and by far the easiest access to bring wood in and out (I can tractor pallet loads right up to the basement door 14' away from the stove. If it were up to me and the pinheads in Olympia would allow it I would have a big wood boiler or even a big outside wood furnace, but you know the drill.

 

[begreen]

(broken link removed to http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/drolet-heatpro-wood-furnace-df03000)

 

[JA600L]

To clarify a couple of things - we don't want the stove in the den because (poor design) the den/family is not large enough to keep a big heater from burning us out so putting the big stove in the basement makes more sense (also would be a more difficult install because we would have to box in the pipe through center of the house for the den because of windows.

The basement is sheetrocked - just have never gotten around to doing all the mud and tape. It is fully insulated and we even insulated between the floors when we hung the sheetrock.

You probably made things 10 times harder by insulating between floors. You want just the opposite. You need the heat to rise through the floors quickly to keep up with the heat loss of the house. I heat from the basement. My joists are exposed in the stove room and drop ceiling in the living space beside it. Think of it as in floor heating. The floors are always warm and heat rises from there.

Insulating the basement ceiling does have an advantage for A/C and if the basement will not be used.

 

[Highbeam]

(broken link removed to http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/drolet-heatpro-wood-furnace-df03000)

How big is this place? Ducts to basement, lots of wood, desire for automation, how about a wood furnace? The big drolet meets Washington emission regulations of under 4.5gph.

Yes, WA has some strict rules and only recently have wood furnaces started to clean up their act. I only know of this one that has accomplished the feat of getting under WA limits.

4.9 cubic feet with a 6" flue, 100,000 btu output. Your setup screams for this furnace.

 

[volunbeer]

Ok, I admit the Drolet has me very interested. There do not appear to be any dealers close to me that carry these though and I am trying to puzzle out the whole ductwork issue. I did not think any indoor furnaces were allowed in WA.

 

[Calentarse]

Just got home and thanks for the replies. To clarify, my goal is to burn a lot of wood. The house is huge (foreclosure - we mostly bought the property) and we don't really use the basement much unless guest are visiting so our goal is to get the most heat possible. We don't even frequent the basement and I work long hours so I also want something that my wife can handle during the day or if I am out of town for work. Ideally if we could run the stove at high output we would load at least twice a day (morning and evening) and probably throw in a few pieces of ponderosa pine when it is really cold periodically (I can get tons of rounds for free). The house has a pretty extensive heat/air system - 2 electrics and 2 propane furnaces - with lots of ducts (third floor has it's own system). I am also considering redoing the ducts in the basement where the "box" would be able to pull most of the hot air off the basement ceiling directly into the fan/duct system from the air returns. The insulation is pretty good, but there are lots of windows and those suck heat even though they are good quality. In a pinch I can get a large high quality floor fan to push the heat towards the stairs. The basement is usually noticeably cooler.

From a maintenance standpoint the "thermostat" on both units is attractive because it supposedly "manages the stove" so there should be less maintenance. Both stoves appear to be suitable units for what we want, but the BK appears to be a proven unit and the Quad is an untested unit from a reputable company. Wish there was more information on the long-term performance of the Quad.

Given the lack of "constant monitoring" for the stove does that change your thoughts any? I know all stoves require attention, but based on the glossy pages these two appear to be my best option allowable in the environmental fantasy land I live in.

Heat will rise automatically. I'd refrain from a bunch of restructuring in order to move hot air. You'd be better off moving the cold air toward the stove. It's denser and easier to move. Hot air is thin and stubborn to move through duct work.

If I were you, I'd get the BK. There's no comparison. Evidently, the only stoves to rival them are the Woodstocks. My dad has one and if he runs it hot, the extra heat goes right up the chimney. Not so with the BK. You turn it up and the pipe temp stays pretty much the same. Amazing. Baffling that they can keep the technology proprietary.

 

[Highbeam]

I did not think any indoor furnaces were allowed in WA.

WA didn't outlaw furnaces, they outlawed wood burners that made more than 4.5 gph emissions and until now none of the furnaces were that clean.

 

[BKVP]

WA didn't outlaw furnaces, they outlawed wood burners that made more than 4.5 gph emissions and until now none of the furnaces were that clean.

Not quite accurate Highbeam. They outlawed any product that was not EPA approved. As there was not an EPA approved test method for WAF (warm air furnaces), there could be no approval. As of May 15, 2015, there is now both a standard (passing grade) and a test method.

WA state ecology, if you are correct, has approved or permitted EPA approved WAF. I'll take your word for that because we dropped our line of WAF's and I have not stayed on top WA state policies for the product category.

 

[Highbeam]

Not quite accurate Highbeam. They outlawed any product that was not EPA approved. As there was not an EPA approved test method for WAF (warm air furnaces), there could be no approval. As of May 15, 2015, there is now both a standard (passing grade) and a test method.

WA state ecology, if you are correct, has approved or permitted EPA approved WAF. I'll take your word for that because we dropped our line of WAF's and I have not stayed on top WA state policies for the product category.

Chris, perhaps I misunderstand the law. The law not only requires EPA approval which is quite a low bar, but ALSO requires less than 4.5 gph. This is more stringent than most of the country and the reason that none of the WAFs could be installed in WA.

Here it is for you. It is not ecology but WA law, EPA certified AND 4.5 gph for non-cat, 2.5 for cat solid fuel burners.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-433-100

WA has not updated any new solid fuel burner law from MAY 2015 so has not adopted these WAF guidelines you speak of yet.

 

[Highbeam]

I think I see the source of my confusion. Turns out that the national EPA has tightened their gph regs to match WA law as of 2015 to 4.5 gph so now EPA and WA are the same. Regardless, a WAF is a "solid fuel burners" and if it is EPA approved and under 4.5 gph it looks to be legal in WA per the law linked above.

 

[JA600L]

Heat will rise automatically. I'd refrain from a bunch of restructuring in order to move hot air. You'd be better off moving the cold air toward the stove. It's denser and easier to move. Hot air is thin and stubborn to move through duct work.

If I were you, I'd get the BK. There's no comparison. Evidently, the only stoves to rival them are the Woodstocks. My dad has one and if he runs it hot, the extra heat goes right up the chimney. Not so with the BK. You turn it up and the pipe temp stays pretty much the same. Amazing. Baffling that they can keep the technology proprietary.

That doesn't make any sense. Obviously, one stove is running at a higher btu output then the other.

 

[volunbeer]

I did some checking today and nobody seems to deal in the furnaces here - hard to believe someone would not start selling them if they were legal! This is stove country and that is a lot of BTU's!

 

[begreen]

Online sales:
(broken link removed to http://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/Catalog.aspx?Type=Stoves&SubType=STOVE&Cat=FBOIS&Lang=EN)