tarm solo inova 50 burning wood just to burn wood

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I just did some napkin scratching before I head to bed. Assuming your getting 4 GPM to your storage, it should take 6 hours of the steady wide open burning you're doing to get that 140° water extended all the way down through your tanks so it can start hitting your boiler return. The 4 GPM is a guess. I have concluded by observing mine & doing similar napkin scratching that mine pumps 6 GPM through my storage when none is going around my bypass. So if yours is less than 4 right now, it'll take that much longer. Eg., if only 3, it would take 8 hours.
 
I just did some napkin scratching before I head to bed. Assuming your getting 4 GPM to your storage, it should take 6 hours of the steady wide open burning you're doing to get that 140° water extended all the way down through your tanks so it can start hitting your boiler return. The 4 GPM is a guess. I have concluded by observing mine & doing similar napkin scratching that mine pumps 6 GPM through my storage when none is going around my bypass. So if yours is less than 4 right now, it'll take that much longer. Eg., if only 3, it would take 8 hours.

I just did some napkin scratching before I head to bed. Assuming your getting 4 GPM to your storage, it should take 6 hours of the steady wide open burning you're doing to get that 140° water extended all the way down through your tanks so it can start hitting your boiler return. The 4 GPM is a guess. I have concluded by observing mine & doing similar napkin scratching that mine pumps 6 GPM through my storage when none is going around my bypass. So if yours is less than 4 right now, it'll take that much longer. Eg., if only 3, it would take 8 hours.
There is no doubt in my mind I can get my storage up to temp with nothing calling for heat but shouldn't I be getting hotter then 145 out of the boiler. I feel like my load valve is opening at too low a temp
 
Yes, there is something wrong with your loading unit, as mentioned. That return temp dial should be right at 140. Then your supply temps would be that much higher again. I suspect dirt but would call whoever I got it from first. In the meantime I would keep burning & get everything up to temp as long as your aren't creosoting things up, until you are ready to do something about your loading unit. Once you get return from storage above 140 (one lap through), your supply temps will rise. Also I punched a wrong calculator button, that would happen at the 4 hour mark give or take, assuming the 4 GPM.

I need to go to bed...
 
Yes, there is something wrong with your loading unit, as mentioned. That return temp dial should be right at 140. Then your supply temps would be that much higher again. I suspect dirt but would call whoever I got it from first. In the meantime I would keep burning & get everything up to temp as long as your aren't creosoting things up, until you are ready to do something about your loading unit. Once you get return from storage above 140 (one lap through), your supply temps will rise. Also I punched a wrong calculator button, that would happen at the 4 hour mark give or take, assuming the 4 GPM.

I need to go to bed...
Thank you for your help I'm working with tarm on this issue as well
 
Interesting, I have
Thank you for your help I'm working with tarm on this issue as well
I agree that you shouldn't be getting water that cold fed into your boiler but I have also never seen tank temp as low as you have. I wonder if others see temps that low or maybe the theory about the concrete slab (i.e. it is sucking everything out of your water and returning really cold water) is contributing to that adding to the loading issue. Good luck.
 
Rippa25m, I've been using my new Solo Innova 50 with a thousand gallons of storage for about a month or two now. I have been heating a 3000 square foot home with ten foot ceilings, built on a 3-1/2 inch slab over 1.5 inches rigid insulation. I use a water to air heat exchanger over the forced hot air furnace to provide the heat, and haven't used an ounce of propane since day one for either heat or DHW. I plumbed with black iron pipe like you. Being so new at operating this boiler, I am certainly no expert, but the people at Tarm Biomass, who I purchased it from certainly are. I would contact them ASAP for technical assistance. Did you purchase your Solo Innova from them? They are really helpful and helped resolve some startup issues I had.

I noted you said you have your loading pump set on low. The manual for my Termovar loading unit recommends it be run at high speed. Don't know if that would make any difference, but if I run mine on low, the high temp limit tends to kick in prematurely and makes the boiler idle. Sounds like your flue temps are like mine. If your heat exchange tubes aren't crudded up or anything else your output should be enough to charge your storage in a few hours. Could you bypass that radiator, turn off the loads and see if you could charge your storage only in that kind of time span. That would give you a clue about the boilers heat production and where the heat is or isn't going. Maple asked if you running all your heated water through that radiator in the picture but I didn't see an answer. Maybe you have a flow restriction there coupled with the low circulator flow speed setting.

Also, how many square feet are you attempting to heat in total? Look through the peephole in the lower chamber and see if you are getting good gasification. The manual describes what color flames should be present, if you are getting gasification and using the correct air intake settings. I'm always happy when I see a whitish blue flame.

I am located in Virginia so our weather should not be all that different. So far tonight with my current burn, it's taken about two hours to get the 1000 gallons storage from 140 degrees to the upper 160's, while the house is simultaneously drawing heat. I filled the burn chamber about 2/3 full. I have been burning a mix of 4" to 6" dry splits of oak, locust and softwoods like cedar. The manual says you can use up to 6" splits. I don't know what you meant by the term "slabs", which you are burning. I usually mix in in a couple of rounds of up to 4" size. It's currently 14 degrees outside and 70 degrees in the house. I expect to have storage up to temp in the upper 170's to 180 degrees in about another hour or so maybe, so I know your boiler can do the same trick.

I'll look at my current temperature readings so you can have something to compare your temperature readings to as you problem solve. As my burn is getting towards its end, the temperature reading on the Solo Innova's front temperature gauge is 183F. The side temperature gauge by the pressure relief valve is 170F. Readings on the Termovar Loading Unit are top 170F, bottom left 155F and bottom right 150F. Temperatures on the thousand gallon storage tank from top to bottom are 171F, 167F, 165F and 141F. The temperature of water going to the w/a heat exchanger is 165F, returning at 145F,

I just threw a few more splits on the remaining fire to get storage fully up to temp while I head off to bed for the night. It should shut itself off sometime later tonight. I'll reread your post tomorrow and see if I can think of something helpful. Maybe if you posted your plumbing schematic, one of the Boiler Room's real experts might spot an issue. Good luck.

Mike
 
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Got some sleep.

Would be curious on how much time of steady burning it takes to get your bottom tank temps (and therefore the return to boiler temps) up to the same temp as your boiler supply. Which looks like is around 140-145. That point would signify one complete lap through storage. From that time, and assuming what looks like starting storage temp of 75 or so, we could figure out the gpm flow through storage, and then your boiler btu/hr output. Which should give a rough indication of how good the boiler itself is doing at making heat.

I think the temp output of the loading unit was about the middle of the cold & hot temps feeding it. So I'm revising my guess at flow through storage to 3gpm, which would mean that first lap would take about 5-1/2 hrs.

Under the current situation, I think your good with that pump on low speed. But once you get the return temp issue corrected, you might indeed have to bump up the speed to keep your boiler below the idle point. Keep that in mind for when you get things up to temp. Higher speed = less temp rise through the boiler.

Echo the cast iron rad thing - although sounds like your top of tank temps are close to your boiler supply temps. I think?
 
Got some sleep.

Would be curious on how much time of steady burning it takes to get your bottom tank temps (and therefore the return to boiler temps) up to the same temp as your boiler supply. Which looks like is around 140-145. That point would signify one complete lap through storage. From that time, and assuming what looks like starting storage temp of 75 or so, we could figure out the gpm flow through storage, and then your boiler btu/hr output. Which should give a rough indication of how good the boiler itself is doing at making heat.

I think the temp output of the loading unit was about the middle of the cold & hot temps feeding it. So I'm revising my guess at flow through storage to 3gpm, which would mean that first lap would take about 5-1/2 hrs.

Under the current situation, I think your good with that pump on low speed. But once you get the return temp issue corrected, you might indeed have to bump up the speed to keep your boiler below the idle point. Keep that in mind for when you get things up to temp. Higher speed = less temp rise through the boiler.

Echo the cast iron rad thing - although sounds like your top of tank temps are close to your boiler supply temps. I think?
I'm only loosing about 5 degree through the radiator. I'm getting the tanks up to temp now and will post more details soon
 
Do you have a manual for your loading unit?

If it's an LK - which it does look like, but I'm not sure it is or not - you can find one online. It is a straightforward affair to get at your thermostatic element. Straightforward, but maybe not super easy with your piping. It is located in the bypass inlet. You would close all three of the little built in shut off valves, then unfasten the bypass nut and just loosen the other two. Then rotate the pump, so top comes forward towards you, which would expose the bypass inlet & let you access the element. But, the only time I used those little shut off valves since I started using mine, they all leaked a little bit from around the little square nut thing you use to open & close them with. I have ball valves in the lines further away from the pump, that I will use any other time going forward, and don't plan on touching those little ones ever again (they also turned quite hard, and the little square heads don't give much bite area to turn them with). Plus it was hard to tell which way to try to turn them. So don't force. Looks like you don't have much in the way of in line ball valves to isolate components with, in case water starts spurting - so that may or may not be something you want to tackle during the heating season. If you can keep your tanks above 140 on the bottom, you might be OK for the winter. That might take some regular burning though. There also might be a chance, that once you do get things up to the point that return temps are steady above 140, and the element opens up all the way, that whatever is blocking it from closing might get flushed out through the unit into the boiler, without taking anything apart. I would try that for a while & see what happens - never know. Can you adjust the supply temps to your floor? Via the mixing valve? If so, once you start sending water to the floor, I would start off on the cool side so it doesn't kick the stuffing out of your tank temps. Then bring them up a bit over a couple or few days. I suspect that will be a huge load to your system, as 1" of foam is kind of on the light side for insulation underneath.

Some things to think about for next year. Can't see from the pics, but if it isn't a downhill run from the boiler outlet tapping, to the loading unit bypass T, there is a potential high place there before that line goes down to the cast rad to trap air. So might be a good place for an airvent. Or might be OK, since can't tell from the pics, and sounds like things are flowing. Also on the rad, making use of the water going by to get heat in the room isn't a bad idea, but I would consider plumbing the return water through it rather than supply water. But I was also expecting to see more than a 5° drop through it. Is there any kind of filter or strainer on the system? I used a Wye strainer, in my return line, upstream from the loading unit. Wye strainers are likely the least capable filter you can get, but it should get the biggies that might stop an element from closing. And I would invest in some ball valves so you can isolate things without having to worry about draining a whole bunch of water.
 
Was that big old radiator flushed clean before installation?
 
Ok so an update. First of all thanks to everyone on hear for all your help. I trolled around on here for about a year before I decided to go with a wood boiler with storage over my waste oil boiler. So we got the storage up to temp and naturally that brought up the boiler temp. I turned on my house zone and it ran all night. The temp was around 20 degree outside. Come down to the shop this morning and everything looks good still have 180 at the top of the tanks and 160 at the bottom. Now it's time to heat the 60x45 slab in the shop. The slab was at 60 degree this morning so we will see how this works out. Thank you Chris from tarm biomass for all your help. They are a great team of people there and are always ready to help.
 
Do you have a manual for your loading unit?

If it's an LK - which it does look like, but I'm not sure it is or not - you can find one online. It is a straightforward affair to get at your thermostatic element. Straightforward, but maybe not super easy with your piping. It is located in the bypass inlet. You would close all three of the little built in shut off valves, then unfasten the bypass nut and just loosen the other two. Then rotate the pump, so top comes forward towards you, which would expose the bypass inlet & let you access the element. But, the only time I used those little shut off valves since I started using mine, they all leaked a little bit from around the little square nut thing you use to open & close them with. I have ball valves in the lines further away from the pump, that I will use any other time going forward, and don't plan on touching those little ones ever again (they also turned quite hard, and the little square heads don't give much bite area to turn them with). Plus it was hard to tell which way to try to turn them. So don't force. Looks like you don't have much in the way of in line ball valves to isolate components with, in case water starts spurting - so that may or may not be something you want to tackle during the heating season. If you can keep your tanks above 140 on the bottom, you might be OK for the winter. That might take some regular burning though. There also might be a chance, that once you do get things up to the point that return temps are steady above 140, and the element opens up all the way, that whatever is blocking it from closing might get flushed out through the unit into the boiler, without taking anything apart. I would try that for a while & see what happens - never know. Can you adjust the supply temps to your floor? Via the mixing valve? If so, once you start sending water to the floor, I would start off on the cool side so it doesn't kick the stuffing out of your tank temps. Then bring them up a bit over a couple or few days. I suspect that will be a huge load to your system, as 1" of foam is kind of on the light side for insulation underneath.

Some things to think about for next year. Can't see from the pics, but if it isn't a downhill run from the boiler outlet tapping, to the loading unit bypass T, there is a potential high place there before that line goes down to the cast rad to trap air. So might be a good place for an airvent. Or might be OK, since can't tell from the pics, and sounds like things are flowing. Also on the rad, making use of the water going by to get heat in the room isn't a bad idea, but I would consider plumbing the return water through it rather than supply water. But I was also expecting to see more than a 5° drop through it. Is there any kind of filter or strainer on the system? I used a Wye strainer, in my return line, upstream from the loading unit. Wye strainers are likely the least capable filter you can get, but it should get the biggies that might stop an element from closing. And I would invest in some ball valves so you can isolate things without having to worry about draining a whole bunch of water.
Thank you for all this wonderful info and your time sir. This and all the other help I've received hear is why I've went this route to heat my shop. This is not a very popular thing in Kentucky yet so I have no one hear to bounce ideas off of
 
Hey no probs, the others would say the same thing I'm sure. Speaking for myself (but maybe them too) - I owe a lot to this place & all I learned when I first came to it, can't believe the difference in my life the switch I made created, so always really nice to see others experience it too. I was and still am completely on my own with it also, nobody around here knows anything about this stuff.
 
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That many sq. ft. of concrete six inches thick will take a lot of BTUs to get up to temperature. What I've learned from my experience is that when installing radiant, some thermal mass is beneficial but when you install a large mass with storage in mind it takes too long to charge it and it doesn't release the stored heat fast enough when you need it. Then it continues to release heat when it is not needed such as on a day with good solar gain resulting in overheating of your space.
 
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