Switched from wood to pellets, now domestic water pipes are freezing

[pro5oh]

Sounds quite strange I know. I have a ranch on a slab so my plumbing runs overhead under r-38 insulation. Never had an issue with the wood stove, now I have a thermostat controlled pellet stove and they are freezing at 20 degrees? Stove set at 70 room ranges 65-71. Dont get it. The pipes that have froze are the furthest away from the stove. There is a diiference in the heat, not the same as wood, I believe its the radiant effect that is gone when using pellets. Any input??

 

[jtp10181]

Put more insulation over them maybe? I am just tossing out a guess here. See if you can get a hold of an IR temp gun and check the ceiling temp at that spot.

 

[lass442]

Could you try augmenting your stove heat with your systemic heating system when the outdoor temp drops below 30 F? You might try doing that until you can configure some sort of insulation or other solution. It'd be cheaper than repairing broken pipes $ related damage.

 

[MCPO]

Sounds quite strange I know. I have a ranch on a slab so my plumbing runs overhead under r-38 insulation. Never had an issue with the wood stove, now I have a thermostat controlled pellet stove and they are freezing at 20 degrees? Stove set at 70 room ranges 65-71. Dont get it. The pipes that have froze are the furthest away from the stove. There is a diiference in the heat, not the same as wood, I believe its the radiant effect that is gone when using pellets. Any input??

The house was probably a lot warmer with the wood stove , thus more heat went thru the sheetrock/plaster to the pipes but something has to be inherently wrong with that original installation to begin with.
Of course maybe it did work Ok when you used the furnace and hot water flowed thru them more often. (assuming you do have a forced hot water central heating system and you haven`t been using it for your heat)

If that`s the case I`d not be using any stove at all.

 

[pro5oh]

Sounds quite strange I know. I have a ranch on a slab so my plumbing runs overhead under r-38 insulation. Never had an issue with the wood stove, now I have a thermostat controlled pellet stove and they are freezing at 20 degrees? Stove set at 70 room ranges 65-71. Dont get it. The pipes that have froze are the furthest away from the stove. There is a diiference in the heat, not the same as wood, I believe its the radiant effect that is gone when using pellets. Any input??

The house was probably a lot warmer with the wood stove , thus more heat went thru the sheetrock/plaster to the pipes but something has to be inherently wrong with that original installation to begin with.
Of course maybe it did work Ok when you used the furnace and hot water flowed thru them more often. (assuming you do have a forced hot water central heating system and you haven`t been using it for your heat)

If that`s the case I`d not be using any stove at all.

Its the domestic water pipes that are freezing up. I have been watching the flow decrease by the hour.

 

[BJ64]

This is quite a puzzle!

I would never have thought about the radiant effect but you may have a good point there.

Did the old wood stove have an internal chimney? Perhaps that added a bit of heat in the attic. Just a guess.

With the wood stove going through burn cycles perhaps the extra heat from the hottest point of the cycle was adsorbed into the ceiling.

I think this idea is unlikely but I'll toss it out. Could something have been done to the insulation since the wood stove was last used?

This is going to be interesting.

 

[webby3650]

It sounds like you have cold air blowing directly in on the water lines if they are freezing at 20 degrees. You should check the attic for infiltration. Perhaps you have gable vents that allow wind to blow on the pipes, partially block these for the winter, maybe add some rolled insulation over the area. It is my personal experience that pellet stoves are room heaters and wood stoves are whole house heaters due to there radiant effect . Hope I don't step on any toes by saying that!

 

[Lobstah]

You live in Downeast Maine and you have pipes that run through an attic ABOVE the insulation?

You say you can watch the flow decrease?...I don't think running water will freeze at 20deg. Are you sure they're freezing? If they are, you'll need to get some heat tape on them, along with some more insulation.

Jimb

 

[webby3650]

[quote author="Lobstah" date="1229327766"]You live in Downeast Maine and you have pipes that run through an attic ABOVE the insulation?

You say you can watch the flow decrease?...I don't think running water will freeze at 20deg. Are you sure they're freezing? If they are, you'll need to get some heat tape on them, along with some more insulation.

He said the pipes are under the insulation and I think a heat cable system would be a temporary fix. You really need to find the problem, this isn't normal, you need to stop the air from getting to the pipes. Unless you have PEX water lines, watch closely for leaks when they defrost. It is very odd that they would freeze at 20 degrees. I have been in the home repair business for years and just don't see this problem until it's in the low teens for days!

 

[lass442]

Maybe you could try opening all your cabinet doors to let the heat in closer to the pipes and let your faucets drip at a very slow rate to keep the water moving through them. Heat tapes are a reasonable temporary solution, but can create a fire hazard. You could also run a small space heater in the plumbed room farthest from your pellet stove, again, leaving the cabinets under the sink open to allow heat access.

 

[webby3650]

Maybe you could try opening all your cabinet doors to let the heat in closer to the pipes and let your faucets drip at a very slow rate to keep the water moving through them. Heat tapes are a reasonable temporary solution, but can create a fire hazard. You could also run a small space heater in the plumbed room farthest from your pellet stove, again, leaving the cabinets under the sink open to allow heat access.

Good point ,I just assumed the problem was in the attic but it could also be in the wall where the water lines drop from the attic, if it is an outside wall.

 

[Lobstah]

Lets go back to the original symptoms...
How do you know for sure that your pipes are freezing?

Jim

 

[TboneMan]

It sounds like you have cold air blowing directly in on the water lines if they are freezing at 20 degrees. You should check the attic for infiltration. Perhaps you have gable vents that allow wind to blow on the pipes, partially block these for the winter, maybe add some rolled insulation over the area. It is my personal experience that pellet stoves are room heaters and wood stoves are whole house heaters due to there radiant effect . Hope I don't step on any toes by saying that!

If you are referring to "wind chill" in this statement, you are actually incorrect. Wind chill does not have an effect on inanimate objects. The lowest the temp in the pipes could get in his situation is 20'F.
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/windchill/windchillglossary.shtml

Besides, in snowy areas of the country, you try everything you possibly can to keep your attic cold. The more ventilation the better. Mind you, it is equally important to insulate between this cold air and the heated air in the living area.

He might try dedicated pipe insulation with sealed joints and then the r38 attic blanket on top of that. I find it hard to believe that at pipe would freeze at 20 deg. F in a house that is occupied (assuming people are bathing, flushing toilets, doing dishes). The water shouldn't be sitting still that long.

 

[Lobstah]

"I find it hard to believe that at pipe would freeze at 20 deg. F in a house that is occupied (assuming people are bathing, flushing toilets, doing dishes). The water shouldn’t be sitting still that long. "

That's why I'm curious about the initial symptom.
I think there's a different problem that has nothing to do with heat and freezing pipes.

Jim

 

[pro5oh]

You live in Downeast Maine and you have pipes that run through an attic ABOVE the insulation?

You say you can watch the flow decrease?...I don't think running water will freeze at 20deg. Are you sure they're freezing? If they are, you'll need to get some heat tape on them, along with some more insulation.

Jimb

Found a place where the insulation may have been moved this summer. I will know if this is it when the temp dips down again. The pipes run between the ceiling and insulation, not over the insulation.

 

[pro5oh]

Lets go back to the original symptoms...
How do you know for sure that your pipes are freezing?

Jim

Kitchen sink, bathroom sink, wouldn't even drip. Shower flowed only partially. Went up to the attic and wrapped the pipes with heat tape and with in 3 minutes had water. Then I took the time to be sure I placed the insulation over the pipes leaving no gaps in the r38. Gotta wait and see how it goes when it gets cold again.

 

[Lobstah]

Ok...that all makes sense now.

Hope that's a fix for you...

Jim