switch to steel?

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dstover said:
I did not buy a blower for my Waterford Trinity MK II. Partly to save money and electricity, but also because I read that it was noisy. But maybe I should buy a blower this time around? I'm not relishing the prospect of having to install an electrical outlet by my stove either (there is none nearby now). In a "rustic" log house, that is easier said than done.

The stove may do fine on its own if centrally located in a open floorplan. Try the stove without the blower and add it later if you feel it is needed. Some house plans work well with just convective heat. You may want to try a table or box fan, on the floor near the bedroom, blowing towards the stove to assist heat circulation to that cold room.
 
dstover said:
Hubby and I burn wood at least 7 months a year, and go through up to 10 cords of mostly fir with occasional pine and cherry. Our house is 1800 square feet, and the only other heat sources are a couple of baseboards that we rarely use. It is an open-floor plan with a ceiling fan but no blower on the stove. SW Washington is fairly mild climate but we live at 2300' elevation so we get more snow and cold than most in our area.

Our house came with an old, huge Frontier(?) steel stove that had a crack in it, made visible by flames inside. That scared us. About 15 years ago we replaced that with a Waterford cast-iron stove. We opted for a non-cat because we were newbies, and for cast iron because we liked the looks.

We have never been all that happy with our Waterford, which is probably a bit too small for our space and doesn't hold a good overnight burn with the soft (but well-seasoned) woods we're burning. Also, we haven't maintained the stove well, so right now we have a cracked firebrick, poor circulation, a bent clip on the window glass, some chipped enamel, etc. etc. Haven't replaced the baffle either. Probably why we are getting poor performance! But as I said we've never been thrilled with this stove's performance, although it was admittedly better in years past.

The tax credit is making us wonder whether we should replace our stove this year instead of overhauling it. Esp. since Waterford is out of business and we may have trouble getting parts? It would be really nice to be able to leave home for the day (we both work at home so we don't do that usually) and come back to a warm house.

Should we be looking at steel stoves this time around? I've heard good things about Lopi, which is the brand we were considering way back when we decided on cast iron instead. Back then my research suggested that there weren't many performance differences between iron and steel, and that iron might have an advantage in being easier to replace individual parts and less risk of getting the stove dangerously hot. Our original steel stove was not only cracked but also warped in the back, which really gave us pause about steel, even though we weren't the ones who caused that.

We try to be safety- and energy-conscious. We installed double-wall pipe when we bought our Waterford, and a couple of years ago we installed an air intake pipe into our crawl space to try to reduce draftiness. But the intake pipe seems to have interfered with our damper so it doesn't shut 100% anymore. Possibly another reason I'm giving the Waterford bad marks.

I'd love to hear some feedback about steel vs. cast iron. We still like the look of our cast iron but we're willing to sacrifice looks for something more practical if that's the choice we have to make. Judging by our lousy maintenance track record with a non-cat stove, we probably shouldn't get a cat, right?

The brands available here include Lopi, Jotul, Pacific Energy and Quadrafire. They all seem to have their adherents, but we will probably go with Lopi if we opt for steel. Our neighbor swears by his Blaze King, but I bet there's a downside to that super-long burn time, isn't there? And I'm not thrilled with the look of the BK.


You're going through 10 cord of God's Own Firewood (Doug Fir) in a 1800 sf house? Holy schidt!

If you go steel go PE. PE Summit. Lopi-like quality and performance at a substantial discount.

And, no, there is no downside to the long BK burn times

Where in SW WA are you at 2300'? I can't think of anywhere that high south of Oly and west of the Cascades.
 
I run the Lopi Endeavor, and my paternal grandmother has the Liberty. You can't go wrong with a Lopi, should you choose. I find their bypass damper is convenient for cleaning, too. We just added a blower to our Endeavor, and though I have yet to test it during really cold weather, I must say that it really moves a lot of convection heat and improves greatly on the stove's natural convection design/properties.

You're looking at some good brands. Happy shopping!
 
We had an old steel stove and asked our sweep his opinion on replacing it with either a new steel or new cast iron. He sells only cast iron and told us that if he sold us the cast, we would never be happy since we had the steel first.

Definately get the new stove if you have the money to do it. The better heat with less wood is nothing short of amazing. The learning curve is a touch frustrating if you are used to the non-epa stoves and it will expose any and all flaws in your woodpile. But it is worth it.
 
If I was to buy a steel stove I would take a good look at Lopi and Pacific Energy.

If I was to buy a cast iron stove I would buy another Jotul in a heart-beat.

If I was to buy another stove I would be really tempted to splurge and go with a soapstone stove.

As Fossil said . . . as long as you go with one of the more well known brands I think you would be happy . . . providing it is something you like the looks of and think would be nice in the home.

And yes . . . your stove served you well for 15 years . . . there's not a lot of things in this world that can be subjected to the extremes of 600+ heat over and over and still work flawlessly . . . it has done well and you have got your money's worth. Now is the time, if there ever was a time, to take advantage of the tax rebate and get a new woodstove . . . and enjoy the added efficiency.

As for a blower . . . I advise folks to usually wait . . . try blowing a fan towards the stove to circulate the air . . . if that doesn't work out so well you can always add the blower at a later time.
 
I also found that people - at least around here - are will to pay a ton of money for any old stove that has that "look" of the rustic Fisher stove. I don't know if they use them or not. A friend of ours sold his old Fisher Papa BEar for $660 and then the guy paid him another $300 to deliver it. Could have bought a nice Englander for that money. But the guy had a new log home and wanted this certain look. We've sold one of our old stoves already and will be selling the second shortly. I figure we will get enough to cover the full cost of the big Englander we put in. And get the tax credit on top of it.
 
In general, steel stoves heat up faster and cool off faster than cast iron, and cast iron does the same compared to soapstone. Many (most) manufacturers of steel and cast iron stoves include firebrick to retain heat longer, which helps lengthen the heat/cool cycle, so again, the bottom line is to size the stove correctly.
 
My understanding is that both steel and cast iron heat and cool at approx the same rate, the difference is that cast components tend to be heavier hence the slower heat absorption and longer retention, the biggest factor is mass... Sorry if I misspeak. As mentioned, the stoves identified all seem excellent candidates. As you shop, one thing to note is stove design. Many new stoves have a jacketed design, which causes them to heat convectively (heat the air) more than radiantly (heat everything around it, like the old stoves). This provides the same amount of heat, but allows closer clearances for install. It feels different, not having a blast of heat from the stove and took me a while to get used to this. However, it can provide more even heat in the house, so the room with the stove is not so overpowering (depending on house layout, etc.) and might help you have a bigger stove for long burns, without overheating being as much of a problem. Take a look at the stoves mentioned, and compare; see if there's one burning in a shop you can look at. Convective stoves, such as the PE Summit, Lopi Liberty (I think?), quadrafire steel stoves, etc. vs the purely radiant stoves such as the Jotuls, Englander, Quadrafire Isle Royale, Blaze King, etc. Good luck!
 
PS - check with Tom at thechimneysweep.com, he is one of the most knowledgeable dealers about some of these stoves and is close to your area (relatively).
 
The ONLY downside to the Blaze King is the glass can get stuff on it when you run it on low. BUT since you are in a mild winter area, you will NOT get the chance to run most of the other models below 10k btu's. My King will do that! Plus, you will cut your wood (I think you said 10 cords) to almost nothing.....
 
Go for it! We just swapped out an old non-EPA stove for a new Napoleon 1450 and I'm already seeing we're using less wood after less than 4 weeks of use.

10 cords is a lot of wood! (you are talking full cords right?)
 
10 cords is only for a really bad year. Our avg. might be more like 7-8 cords. It is split, stored in 2 woodsheds, and seasoned for approx. 9 months. Our house is old and not well insulated, we burn wood for 7 months straight and less regularly in some other months, and it is our main (practically only) heat source. We burn a lot of white fir in addition to doug fir and occasional cherry and Ponderosa pine. Not ideal, but it's what we have and it's free. I am looking forward to burning less wood with a new stove.

Thanks for the reference to the chimneysweeponline website, very helpful (although that bright yellow text is giving me a migraine).

We live on the flank of Mt. Adams, which gives us the elevation. Only 80 miles from Portland but a completely different climate.
 
Hello...can't advise you on the new stoves...but can say if you run across an Allnighter...used... steel stove get it. They are made with quarter inch steel plate and will never wear out. The mid sized and or large one should more then heat your place. Mine is at least twenty-five years old and still going strong. I have it located in my basement and it heats my 1500sf ranch except for the real cold days...and then the oil furnace helps out...:-) I run through five to seven cords a winter...dependin' on how cold it is. I am seventy two and still cut...haul...and split all my own wood...from my own wood lot. Burn white pine on the warmer days and a mix of hard wood the rest of the time. Good luck on your stove hunting...Franklin
 
Oldmainer said:
Hello...can't advise you on the new stoves...but can say if you run across an Allnighter...used... steel stove get it. They are made with quarter inch steel plate and will never wear out. The mid sized and or large one should more then heat your place. Mine is at least twenty-five years old and still going strong. I have it located in my basement and it heats my 1500sf ranch except for the real cold days...and then the oil furnace helps out...:-) I run through five to seven cords a winter...dependin' on how cold it is. I am seventy two and still cut...haul...and split all my own wood...from my own wood lot. Burn white pine on the warmer days and a mix of hard wood the rest of the time. Good luck on your stove hunting...Franklin

I got an all nighter, big moe, great shape.. just threw a fresh coat of stovebright on it, actually... $800 and its yours!... sorry if this should have been intended for the want ad section, mods...
 
summit said:
...I got an all nighter, big moe, great shape.. just threw a fresh coat of stovebright on it, actually... $800 and its yours!... sorry if this should have been intended for the want ad section, mods...

If you're serious about wanting to sell it, go ahead and post it there. Anybody with thoughts of recommending an old-pre-EPA stove to this OP needs to keep in mind that she lives in one of the strictest states in the nation when it comes to woodstove installation. By law, she's only allowed to install and place in service an EPA certified appliance. Rick
 
gonna go post it now..
 
If you get a new stove, get a blower. For relatively little additional cost (10-15% of stove cost), you gain the ability to push a lot more heat in a lot less time. Really nice to push hot air into a cool room once the stove is up to temp, instead of waiting on the radiant heat to circulate. I'm speaking from experience of being a have not, but now a have. Sure, there are times when you may not need it, but just like 4 wheel drive, it's priceless when you need it!
 
I wouldn't dream of buying a pre-EPA stove. I believe there were regulations in place even when I bought my Waterford 15 years ago. The whole idea of replacing my stove is to get one that burns more efficiently and with as little air pollution as possible!

I understand why you may not want to replace your own stove it it "ain't broke," but please do not suggest that I go out and buy a stove that is years behind the times. It would be illegal for you to sell me that stove in Washington state. I'm shopping for a Camry, not a Model T that still runs great!

As a stove owner, I already hear a lot of criticism about how people like me are contributing to air pollution. And it is true—in the town nearest me, the air is pretty thick in the winter from the concentration of stoves. I'm sure it doesn't help that most people don't prepare the wood properly. Those of us who heat our homes with wood need to do what we can to minimize the emissions while generating heat from a renewable source. I am actually "cleaning" the air with my stove because I mostly burn wood scavenged from timber-company slash piles before they torch it. I can burn that wood a lot cleaner than if it goes up in smoke outdoors, while it's still wet.
 
dstover said:
I wouldn't dream of buying a pre-EPA stove. I believe there were regulations in place even when I bought my Waterford 15 years ago. The whole idea of replacing my stove is to get one that burns more efficiently and with as little air pollution as possible!

I understand why you may not want to replace your own stove it it "ain't broke," but please do not suggest that I go out and buy a stove that is years behind the times. It would be illegal for you to sell me that stove in Washington state. I'm shopping for a Camry, not a Model T that still runs great!

As a stove owner, I already hear a lot of criticism about how people like me are contributing to air pollution. And it is true—in the town nearest me, the air is pretty thick in the winter from the concentration of stoves. I'm sure it doesn't help that most people don't prepare the wood properly. Those of us who heat our homes with wood need to do what we can to minimize the emissions while generating heat from a renewable source. I am actually "cleaning" the air with my stove because I mostly burn wood scavenged from timber-company slash piles before they torch it. I can burn that wood a lot cleaner than if it goes up in smoke outdoors, while it's still wet.

And with a new EPA stove, run with properly seasoned wood, you'll be running even more cleaner than you're doing so now. Secondary air just completely rocks, I totally wish I had it on my "old school" Kent Sherwood - and yup, I'm looking to add a new EPA stove to the main level of the house come spring.

Good luck - you're in the right place here - the folks who made recommendations know their stuff. Wood-burnin is kind of a sick OCD obsession for us all.
 
That's NOT accurate. She cannot install an EPA approved stove, she must install a WASHINGTON STATE approved wood stove. EPA is 7.5 gr/hr and WA State is 4.5 gr/hr. (Non catalytic converter stoves)

She can install any stove with a converter if the number is 2.5 or less.

The old pre EPA stoves were permitted to be used when they did their first first draft of the EPA Phases. The EPA is doing it again, a new deal with much lower numbers. Only EPA stoves will probably be allowed.
 
Yes, I believe Washington state laws are strictest in the nation. I will be shopping for my stove in Portland, Oregon, because that is the nearest marketplace (I live close to the state border), but I will be purchasing a stove that meets all Washington requirements.
 
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