Swimming Pool Costs (Long)

[webbie]

That deck looks like it can be fixed with:

1. A good sledge hammer - attempt to bang things partially back together.
2. Some good long screws or 1/4" lag bolts - following the same path as the current nails.
3. Joist hangers - these would do a great job!

You may have to remove the outer "band" on the end....not the big pressure treated things that the joists are connected to, but if there is a 1x or something else on the end...can't see from the pic. - actually, it just looks like 2 - 2x10's, in which case you don't need to remove anything.
The main job is really the hammer and the hangers.

This is a fairly easy repair for any carpenter......or even a good handyman or some friendly neighbors. Heck, if you were within a couple hours of up here, we'd easily be able to come over and "party on" with those sledges and get things repaired in no time.

The thing to remember is that this is not concrete - wood gives and moves very easily - both out of place and back into place.

Note - this repair does not consider the uprights, which I cannot see well. But that part is relatively easy also.
Some extra temporary uprights (double 2x4) would be a good idea while banging things back together.

And some things remain unsaid - like common sense. Don't bang the sledge directly on the wood - put a piece of wood or plywood over it first, etc.

 

[DavidV]

Ok let me see. I love our pool. When my wife found the place the pool was one of the things that I didn't like. I figured it was dangerous to our kids. We've been here 5 years now. It's great. on a hot day there is nothing better than getting into the pool. Especially after splitting wood or doing the lawn. Chlorine is what I use. It's a 16x32. Holds 23,000 gallons. I hardly have to add any water to it and only have to drain it partially a couple times per year. When I say drain I mean if it's an inch or so above where it should be I'll take it down just to the top of the limit. Maintenance isn't bad. Cleaning the pool is rather zen like and quite relaxing. The wife does most of the pool maintenace. She's home with the kids most of the summer and they spend almost the whole day out there.
I had to replace the pool pump and the DE filter. Pump was about 900 but that was before I started doing things myself. cost of the pump itself would have been less than 400.
Ours is vynil liner pool. The liner was replaced a year before we bought the place at a cost of 4-5 K. it should last 10-15 years. Is ther ecost...yes.
Insurance is double what it would be without the pool
cost of Chemicals? couple hundred a year.
Electric to run the pump is definately noticable.
Sounds expensive when you put it all on paper.....but. We used to have a membership at a pool. 400+ a year to swim in a big crowded over chlorinated pool surrounded by ill mannered "dirties". Dropping huge amounts of money on snacks and every time you go is a huge production. You have to stake out your chair space and watch your wallet the whole time.

Having your own pool is great. Properly maitaining the water keeps if from being rough on your eyes. you want to take a quick dip...you do. you want to spend the day by the pool, you do. You want to jump in late at night, completely nekid.....you do. and if Mrs Mo heat wants to give you a li8ttle "hey baby " action.....It's your pool. Will you recover the cost? nope never. but for me it's worth it. Personal decision.

 

[Mrs-GVA]

Mo,
Depends on the type of pool you plan on putting in, above ground or inground? Inground holds the heat better. Regarding costs, they differ where you are. The cost to install a pool in the Northeast would be totally different then South. Talk to some contractors, they can also give you an idea of the electricity and cost of the chemicals. Once you have that basic information, check with your town for the taxes. Yes your homeowners is going to go up, but as long as it is fenced in, you should be ok. The amount of trees will also play a factor in sun exposure/water temp and I would imagine, would effect your chemicals. But I could be wrong.

Personally, I would love a pool.....but then there would be no room for the three dogs to run.....so Mr. GVA says no to the pool :-S

 

[GVA]

Mo the way that deck is built there is no support to the joists other than the Nails, which are not toenailed either (not that it would help in this case)
Wood will shrink... treated or not and the wood will pull away like that.
Hangers will help but IMO at this point you need to add more wood and maybe some cross bracing as Andre showed to help pull it together.
EDIT
This was the old school method my father taught me... before joist hangers were so readily available......
The conversion from cad to JPEG is not so good but you get the point.
this provides the required support and gives stability to the vertical and horizontal planes.....
You may beable to use this after the fact and then incorperate Andre's cross bracing to give the bottom support.

EDIT again
Actually kick that 6x6 to the right a bit I'm to lazy to edit and reconvert the drawing.

 

[Mo Heat]

GVA, I think you and Andre speak a secret language. One I wish I understood, but don't. I can't decipher that diagram. I did pick up one thing that seems clever. Add another 10 x 10 to bridge the gap. I am getting that. To do that though, I guess I'd have to prop all the joists up somehow (how?), bang the current 10 x 10 loose from them, slide in the additional 10 x 10, and reconnect things.

Still, it seems so, so much easier to just add some joist hangers. Is that not enough, or is that just a jerry rig?

Criag, great info. Thanks.
DAvidV, also great info. Thanks. "Hey baby action?" I like that.
BG, I'll post some more pics when I get a chance. I'm running down tree service insurance crapola and doing taxes.

 

[Mo Heat]

I think I'm misunderstanding some of the carpentry suggestions. Adding the 2 x 10 is probably not what was intended, at least not the way I was thinking about it. That would change the diminsions of the deck and not likely a good thing?

Here's some more photos showing potential hill movement. Note the vertical of the big 8 x 8 posts compared to the smaller 6 x 6 posts on the stairs. The 8 x 8's look like they are moving down the hill, to me.

 

[Mo Heat]

Here's a look at the patio slabs. The smaller gap runs away from (perpendicular to) the house. The larger gap is parallel to the house. They were both the same when I moved in. I think the slabs are also moving ever so slowly down the hill. When I first noticed the gap widening I thought it was due to heaving, but I've changed my mind due to the slow and progressive widening of the gap.

The third photo is a side shot of the second photo to show the tipping of the slab as the gap has widened.

The last shot is the "inboard" side of the deck where it attaches to the house. The builder used joist hangers here (at least that's what I'm calling them these days).

 

[Mrs-GVA]

GVA, I think you and Andre speak a secret language. One I wish I understood, but don't.

Mo, you should try living with him! Its taking years....but I'm finally understanding his language! :lol:

 

[GVA]

Mo my old school drawing is just a couple of 2X10 nailed to form an L with th support mounted below..... this allows the joists to drop in and rest on the bottom of the L. The joist hangers do the same However you will need to pull those boards together. Look at the hangers on the house side 6 nails go straight into the ledger board and then 4 (2 each side) That toenail through the joist into the ledger board.
The theory behind that toenailing is that this joist can't pull away from the ledger since they are nailed at an angle.
If you put joist hangers up now those 4 toenails will not even go through the joist and it will keep seperating...
So either you need to sledge it like Web says, or you can add wood in various ways to give support underneath and help hold all the pieces together.
On a side note those posts that are tied together with the 2x8 at the bottom are those in footings or on piers? If footings how deep are they? piers how is the post attached?
How big is the deck and what are the spacings on the posts spacing of joists etc.

You have some movement going on there, But stuff sitting on top (like the concrete patio slabs) move alot easier than something that has proper footings and down 4 feet.

Elk could probably give you a better / easier fix

Oh and Give the Dinosaur ruler back to the kids ;-P

Hope this helps

 

[jjbaer]

Andre, I wish I knew what you were talking about. Sounds like a good idea. The posts don't look vertical to me. I'll try to take a pic of them.

BG, Maybe bad construction and earth movement as the patio slabs are spreading, too. I'll try to get a pic. I'm not sure how to tell if the piers have sunk. I'll also try to get pics of the other end of the deck. Is that the outboard end? Or is the outboard end where the posts are, farthest away from the house? More pics coming...

Mo,

What Andre means (if we're talking about your deck problem) is this: if the earth is moving locally under the pier, it will shove the concrete peirs outward and take the vertical support posts "out of vertical"...this means the bottom of the post moves out, for example, 0.2 inches while the top stays pretty much as it was. When this happens, the post is no longer vertical but is tilted, in this case with the top of the post pointing (maybe imperceptibly) towards the house....to see if this is happening, get a "corner level" for about $6 at the store. It has a 90 deg edge to it so that you can put it on the corner of a beam..... It has two levels...one on each side. Put it on several posts (mark the place you put it on each beam using a pencil so you can return to that same spot later) and, using the level, "benchmark" how much each is leaning by observing how much each bubble has moved away from being level.....may be hard to do as I don't know how to measure each bubble other than to say "1/3 of a bubble lean to the left"...etc.....since you didn't do this before, don't get warped out of shape if it's not level.....it may have been level from day 1 but benchmark it now as a reference point and check it each week........over time you can tell if it's moving out of perpendicular....if the top of the post points more and more towards the house, the earth under the pier is probably moving down the hill ....if the top of the post points further and further towards the bottom of the hill, it probably means the top of the deck attached to the house is pulling away from the house relative to the pier or the earth under the house (but not the pier) is moving.....not likely as with that massive a movement, the pier will also move. There are other combinations of movement but the two mentioned would seem to be the most likely......