Hansson let us know about an on-line, real-time boiler site in Sweden. I find it interesting how simple and efficient the system is.:
http://www.elstyrteknik.se/pannrum/
http://www.elstyrteknik.se/pannrum/
chuck172 said:Yeah, Hansson and his link inspired me to rethink my situation. It is simple there and my installation is comparatively complex. I only have 500 gallons of storage and I would hate to stack another 500 gallon propane tank on top. I will if I feel the need, but these European installations seem to do very well with their set-ups.
WoodNotOil said:Everything we knock around here always comes back to the same guidelines: well stratified tank, well insulated homes, ability to heat with low water temp, and highest possible tank temp...
WoodNotOil said:Everything we knock around here always comes back to the same guidelines: well stratified tank, well insulated homes, ability to heat with low water temp, and highest possible tank temp...
heaterman said:WoodNotOil said:Everything we knock around here always comes back to the same guidelines: well stratified tank, well insulated homes, ability to heat with low water temp, and highest possible tank temp...
The two things that are of paramount importance go hand in hand and they are these; well insulated home and ability to use low water temps. If your house and system are designed with those two in mind the other two become more insignificant.
The low water temp is probably the most difficult because most of us here in the US are adding a wood boiler to a system that was designed for, or at least requires high water temps. (baseboard, fan forced convectors, heating coil in a furnace plenum , etc.) Over there the use of radiant floor heating and/or oversized panel rads allow for sufficient heating with water temps of less than 120*. I can't stress the fact enough that it's much easier on everything involved to use heat from 180 and down rather than 180 and up. Lot's more leeway in design. There's also the fact that high temperature water (200*+) is much more corrosive than water below that temp. Remember that in Germany all systems have to be designed to heat with water temps of 167*F or less.
pybyr said:heaterman said:WoodNotOil said:Everything we knock around here always comes back to the same guidelines: well stratified tank, well insulated homes, ability to heat with low water temp, and highest possible tank temp...
The two things that are of paramount importance go hand in hand and they are these; well insulated home and ability to use low water temps. If your house and system are designed with those two in mind the other two become more insignificant.
The low water temp is probably the most difficult because most of us here in the US are adding a wood boiler to a system that was designed for, or at least requires high water temps. (baseboard, fan forced convectors, heating coil in a furnace plenum , etc.) Over there the use of radiant floor heating and/or oversized panel rads allow for sufficient heating with water temps of less than 120*. I can't stress the fact enough that it's much easier on everything involved to use heat from 180 and down rather than 180 and up. Lot's more leeway in design. There's also the fact that high temperature water (200*+) is much more corrosive than water below that temp. Remember that in Germany all systems have to be designed to heat with water temps of 167*F or less.
For what it's worth, my "overkill air to water heat exchanger" (24x24, 4 row thick 5/8 copper, with aluminum fins) has indeed demonstrated the hoped-for ability to transfer significant BTUS as low as 155 (which is the lowest it's met yet, pre-storage).
My house, which is not exactly ideally easy to heat, starts gaining net temp as soon as the boiler starts feeding water to the water-air HX coil.
For anyone planning on retrofitting a wood boiler + storage (now, or potentially storage in the future) into an air-based system, I highly recommend pursuing an overkill HX, rather than one sized with USA 180 degree, 20 degree delta T norms.
heaterman said:pybyr said:heaterman said:WoodNotOil said:Everything we knock around here always comes back to the same guidelines: well stratified tank, well insulated homes, ability to heat with low water temp, and highest possible tank temp...
The two things that are of paramount importance go hand in hand and they are these; well insulated home and ability to use low water temps. If your house and system are designed with those two in mind the other two become more insignificant.
The low water temp is probably the most difficult because most of us here in the US are adding a wood boiler to a system that was designed for, or at least requires high water temps. (baseboard, fan forced convectors, heating coil in a furnace plenum , etc.) Over there the use of radiant floor heating and/or oversized panel rads allow for sufficient heating with water temps of less than 120*. I can't stress the fact enough that it's much easier on everything involved to use heat from 180 and down rather than 180 and up. Lot's more leeway in design. There's also the fact that high temperature water (200*+) is much more corrosive than water below that temp. Remember that in Germany all systems have to be designed to heat with water temps of 167*F or less.
For what it's worth, my "overkill air to water heat exchanger" (24x24, 4 row thick 5/8 copper, with aluminum fins) has indeed demonstrated the hoped-for ability to transfer significant BTUS as low as 155 (which is the lowest it's met yet, pre-storage).
My house, which is not exactly ideally easy to heat, starts gaining net temp as soon as the boiler starts feeding water to the water-air HX coil.
For anyone planning on retrofitting a wood boiler + storage (now, or potentially storage in the future) into an air-based system, I highly recommend pursuing an overkill HX, rather than one sized with USA 180 degree, 20 degree delta T norms.
Now, just think how much longer you could run between burns if your system could heat the house with 100* to 110* water.That's the kind of water temp that a good Euro type system will heat a well insulated house with
![]()
pybyr said:heaterman said:pybyr said:heaterman said:WoodNotOil said:Everything we knock around here always comes back to the same guidelines: well stratified tank, well insulated homes, ability to heat with low water temp, and highest possible tank temp...
The two things that are of paramount importance go hand in hand and they are these; well insulated home and ability to use low water temps. If your house and system are designed with those two in mind the other two become more insignificant.
The low water temp is probably the most difficult because most of us here in the US are adding a wood boiler to a system that was designed for, or at least requires high water temps. (baseboard, fan forced convectors, heating coil in a furnace plenum , etc.) Over there the use of radiant floor heating and/or oversized panel rads allow for sufficient heating with water temps of less than 120*. I can't stress the fact enough that it's much easier on everything involved to use heat from 180 and down rather than 180 and up. Lot's more leeway in design. There's also the fact that high temperature water (200*+) is much more corrosive than water below that temp. Remember that in Germany all systems have to be designed to heat with water temps of 167*F or less.
For what it's worth, my "overkill air to water heat exchanger" (24x24, 4 row thick 5/8 copper, with aluminum fins) has indeed demonstrated the hoped-for ability to transfer significant BTUS as low as 155 (which is the lowest it's met yet, pre-storage).
My house, which is not exactly ideally easy to heat, starts gaining net temp as soon as the boiler starts feeding water to the water-air HX coil.
For anyone planning on retrofitting a wood boiler + storage (now, or potentially storage in the future) into an air-based system, I highly recommend pursuing an overkill HX, rather than one sized with USA 180 degree, 20 degree delta T norms.
Now, just think how much longer you could run between burns if your system could heat the house with 100* to 110* water.That's the kind of water temp that a good Euro type system will heat a well insulated house with
![]()
Absolutely- if I were dealing with closer to a "clean slate" I would definitely go with radiant floor and/ or Euro-type panel radiators, for that precise reason.
Hansson said:In my cellar I have a radiator whit a fan.
It puts out 3540 watt when the incoming water is 50 celsius.
heaterman said:Hannson
What type of tubing is the ivory colored piece coming down the wall?
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