Super 27 question

[MontanaSam]

This is the exact procedure I imagined doing as soon as I looked at the air intake lever closely, although instead of bending the stop tab I think it might work to take an angle grinder or dremmel tool and grind a groove in the tab for the lever to slide further into, thus allowing the air intake hole to be more completely covered.

I am also surprised that in the dozens of reviews I've read for the Super 27, no one except on this thread has mentioned that these things are on "mild inferno" mode with the air lever all the way on low. I agree it would be nice to see this a customizable feature.

 

[mfetcho]

I have been having similar issues with my T6. I have mostly pine this year mixed with a little bit of fir. I have had a lot of hot fires and can't get long burn times. With Begreen's help, I have been covering the primary air hole with a piece of foil and I can get an overnight burn! I will definitely be modifying my air control to be able to close it down tighter. I don't know if I can use the vise-grip technique because I think the stop tab is welded at each end. I might use the right angle grinder technique that MontanaSam suggested.

 

[MontanaSam]

So angle grinded a groove in the stop last night after himming and hawing about it. Got a wonderful overnight burn with a load of larch and started a fire in the morning no problem with some pine splits and hot coals. Still burning now at 7pm.

Think the problems fixed! Thanks all for suggestions.

 

[Seanm]

Got a wonderful overnight burn with a load of larch and started a fire in the morning no problem with some pine splits and hot coals.

Nice! So how long did the larch last you?

 

[begreen]

The tab is not welded at the stop end which extends over the outlet hole. I prefer to bend the tab because the change is reversible. Grinding out the tab is less so. Good to hear you have made progress MSam.

 

[Starstuff]

Glad that worked for you, MontanaSam. I've had mixed but also encouraging results so far after bending the tab back enough so that the primary inlet has just a sliver left.

So here's what I'm noticing: great air control now when turned down low. Secondaries are nice and mellow and less heat is going up the pipe. Also, very clean secondaries--all blue flames above the wood while wood below is simply dark and charred with a little glowing embers. No orange primary flames, even with pine. Also, the secondaries seem to be lasting a LOT longer.I just made a small fire using one large split of pine that I cut into different sized pieces of kindling and a couple 3" pieces. it's been firing off secondaries for well over an hour now. Also, stove cruises at a much lower temperature. Never exceeds 530-540F in the center spot above door. This is all pretty exciting because it could mean I'll use a lot less wood this winter... if I can just figure one thing out:

The problem is after a few hours or however long it takes, the secondaries go out. and when they go out, the stove starts smoking heavily, indicating that the wood has not completed the secondary combustion. Before the primary air modification, this was never a problem for my stove; once it got going, it cruised until everything was clean charcoal and, I never saw a trace of smoke, except perhaps with really lousy wood. This isn't a huge problem, but it does mean for overnight burns, I need to leave the primary open enough to sustain a complete secondary burn. I guess I'll just have to play with it.

So what I'm finding out is that PE obviously put a lot of thought into where they made that primary air control stop. They knew that a certain amount of primary air would be necessary to sustain a complete secondary burn for the widest range of setups.

I'm not totally ready to blame the stove, as this could be a fuel issue. Next time I'm home all day, I'll pull out my dryest, hardest woods and make sure I'm using the primo fuel and monitor the stove the whole day to see what happens.

 

[begreen]

Yes, if the fire gets too little air it may end up smoldering. You might need to go to the stop now that it's been altered, then open it up a bit. Our stop still allows more than a sliver, about 1/4" open. I can only go to the stop with the driest and hottest of fires. The wood I'm burning now is this case.

 

[mfetcho]

I ended up making the modification to the stop by bending the tab (it was not welded all the way across), but then I found what the real problem was. I discovered the glass on my door was loose at the top. The gasket had pulled out in a 2" section and was creating a nice leak. I think the 2 bolts and brackets that hold the glass tight to the door had come loose causing the gasket to wiggle out. I removed all 4 bolts and brackets and got the gasket put back into place. My stove runs like a top now.

For all with this style door, check the bolts and brackets to ensure they are holding the glass tight to the door . I had checked it early on, but missed it.

 

[begreen]

Good find. Glad it's working well now!

 

[Starstuff]

Just wanted to return to this thread and report back for anyone who finds it in the future. The modification discussed in here is really the answer to a problem I was having for over two years, and it does seem there's quite a lot of people experiencing it, so hopefully it will be of ongoing use.

Going on second week now following the modification.

The big thing that I've determined is that fuel quality is absolutely crucial when primary air is turned down very low. With very dry wood (say, in the 16% or lower range), I am able to keep the primary shut all the way through the burn and not produce any smoke. This gets extremely long burn times with nice even heating that stays in the 550 range with blower on low. Wood in the acceptable 18-20% range will still burn great with primary shut completely off, but the secondaries tend to die near the end of the cycle, allowing the wood to smolder a bit. If I am around/awake to tend, I will just open up the primary a little at this point. If I am not able to tend, I keep the primary open just a little before leaving it and it's fine. Wood in the marginal 20-25% range will still burn, but produce a little smoke throughout the burn, even with active secondaries. In any case, this is a vast improvement over the previous situation with the stove having a lot of flame activity and burning through fuel quickly.

Also, softwoods seem to do exceptionally well with this low level of primary air. It has completely changed how I look at pine. I've always burned pine and thought of it as a great wood for getting a fire started or shoulder season, but never considered it a serious fuel for mid-winter heating. Now, I have no problem getting the type of heat output and duration I need from pine to heat on the coldest nights. Given that pine is very easy to work with, seasons rapidly, and widely available, I can see this changing the makeup of my woodpiles.

Thanks to BurningBrutus for the original tip.

Glad that worked for you, MontanaSam. I've had mixed but also encouraging results so far after bending the tab back enough so that the primary inlet has just a sliver left.

So here's what I'm noticing: great air control now when turned down low. Secondaries are nice and mellow and less heat is going up the pipe. Also, very clean secondaries--all blue flames above the wood while wood below is simply dark and charred with a little glowing embers. No orange primary flames, even with pine. Also, the secondaries seem to be lasting a LOT longer.I just made a small fire using one large split of pine that I cut into different sized pieces of kindling and a couple 3" pieces. it's been firing off secondaries for well over an hour now. Also, stove cruises at a much lower temperature. Never exceeds 530-540F in the center spot above door. This is all pretty exciting because it could mean I'll use a lot less wood this winter... if I can just figure one thing out:

The problem is after a few hours or however long it takes, the secondaries go out. and when they go out, the stove starts smoking heavily, indicating that the wood has not completed the secondary combustion. Before the primary air modification, this was never a problem for my stove; once it got going, it cruised until everything was clean charcoal and, I never saw a trace of smoke, except perhaps with really lousy wood. This isn't a huge problem, but it does mean for overnight burns, I need to leave the primary open enough to sustain a complete secondary burn. I guess I'll just have to play with it.

So what I'm finding out is that PE obviously put a lot of thought into where they made that primary air control stop. They knew that a certain amount of primary air would be necessary to sustain a complete secondary burn for the widest range of setups.

I'm not totally ready to blame the stove, as this could be a fuel issue. Next time I'm home all day, I'll pull out my dryest, hardest woods and make sure I'm using the primo fuel and monitor the stove the whole day to see what happens.

 

[KpR]

I did mine with vice grips as well, i did not have to pull my insert out at all, very easy to bend. Once done you will have a brand new stove and will have to re learn how to use your stove, best thing i ever did, i was having the same issue with not being able to shut it down enough. Seems like PE should make a permanent fix for this, just let it close down more PE.

Just to clarify: for those who have bent this tab, are you bending toward the back of the insert/stove or out towards the front? Thanks.

 

[Starstuff]

Just to clarify: for those who have bent this tab, are you bending toward the back of the insert/stove or out towards the front? Thanks.

Toward the front. You can get some good leverage on the tab by unscrewing the slotted faceplate for the primary air lever. I bent mine enough so that just a sliver of the primary air inlet is left open when the lever is pushed fully to the right. I find this to be all I need, though I wonder with very very dry wood, it might be possible to completely block off the primary air and let the load burn entirely on baffle and boost air...

 

[begreen]

I would leave some air coming it. There needs to be some air for the airwash and for when the fire starts to die down.

 

[KpR]

Great. Thanks.

 

[Starstuff]

I would leave some air coming it. There needs to be some air for the airwash and for when the fire starts to die down.

That could still be controlled manually, but absolutely when the fire starts to die down, you do need some primary air to keep it from smoldering or dying.

I just like the idea having complete control over the range of the stove. You could probably never leave the primary air fully closed for the entire burn cycle, but if you're around to tend, you could probably extend the fuel life and control the temperature output a lot better. Kind of like on a catalytic stove.


Anyway, FYI to people who make the mod: I'm finding that very little primary air works best for smaller (2-3") splits placed with good air movement. Normally this would create an over-fire situation, but with the primary air modification I'm able to shut the primary down around 350F and stove will peak in the low 500s (with fan on) and burn for a longer time than you can usually get with those small sticks, with no visible smoke from the stack. A little smoldering toward the end, so that's when I open the air back up a little. The secondaries are nice and lazy.

 

[begreen]

Our smallest splits are 3-4". We rarely burn small splits except for starting the fire or as gap fillers. 2" sticks are kindling.

 

[Starstuff]

Our smallest splits are 3-4". We rarely burn small splits except for starting the fire or as gap fillers. 2" sticks are kindling.

Aye, you're right. 3-4" is a more accurate description. This is why I'm not a carpenter. Anyway, I find that a fire made from about 5-6 of these small pine splits will put out a good 3 hours of nice 400-500F heat before starting to simmer down, which is an ideal evening fire with this current warming trend we got going on.

 

[begreen]

LOL, that makes more sense. We do the same on mild days.

 

[pyroboy]

Im also still having great results with the same modification on my PE summit....consistently left with hot coals after 10-12 hours, stove still too hot to touch. so glad I did the same thing.