Summit insert took off!!

[begreen]

I run pure locust in very cold weather. It brings the stove top up to the 650-700F range. When it's below 20F outside that's just about right.

 

[begreen]

Hotter than expected burns happen to me every time I load up on top of an already hot burning fire. I blame the misnamed EBT for this, it opens when it gets hot and adds more primary combustion air when I want less air instead of more. Pay attention to what begreen said in Post #13 about blocking off the EBT port. although getting to it can be lots of fun with a floor mounted insert.

Time to tone it down a bit. What I said in that post does not apply to the newer EBT system. It's an entirely different design that doesn't boost primary air at all. I like what they have done. Also note that the changes I made were for my stove and flue. One needs to make a judgement call here. There are lots of systems that work just fine without any modification. I have also found now that I have run the stove for several seasons that the way I load a stove has much more to do with burn temps than the EBT ever did. One of the mistakes folks make with these big fireboxes is aiming for a big, secondary light show. I now shoot for a good long steady burn, often loading E/W and throttling back the air much sooner.

 

[graycatman]

Time to tone it down a bit. What I said in that post does not apply to the newer EBT system. It's an entirely different design that doesn't boost primary air at all. I like what they have done. Also note that the changes I made were for my stove and flue. One needs to make a judgement call here. There are lots of systems that work just fine without any modification. I have also found now that I have run the stove for several seasons that the way I load a stove has much more to do with burn temps than the EBT ever did. One of the mistakes folks make with these big fireboxes is aiming for a big, secondary light show. I now shoot for a good long steady burn, often loading E/W and throttling back the air much sooner.

BG, I have been considering trying E/W in my Summit to lengthen burn times too. When you do this, do you still rake the coals forward? Assuming you do, do you shut down the air to its final setting before all the wood has charred (I assume the back pieces don't catch until the last part of the burn?) Also, do you pack it full E/W? Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[begreen]

The answer to most of these questions is a qualified yes. It depends a lot on the wood being burned and stove draft. Out here we burn a lot of softwood too which tends to ignite easily as long as it is nice and dry. I do rake most of the coals forward if I am burning fir. But if it is a good hardwood like locust, then I tend to spread them out with a bias toward the front of the stove. I shut the air down in increments, watching the fire. 50% closed once the wood has started charring and there is a vigorous flame, 75% closed (or what ever it takes to make the flames lazy) about 5-10 minutes later. At this point there may only be some side flames licking out and modest secondary combustion in the top center of the stove. Let the fire intensity rise again for 5-10 minutes. Then close it as far as you can while still maintaining a very lazy flame. I can't say whether the back logs are fully charred at this point. Can't see them! But the front logs have blacked at this stage.

 

[Hogwildz]

Yes, I can blame the EBT for allowing an excess of air into a supposedly controlled environment regardless of fuel supply causing elevated temperatures and short burn times. Quoted from "Operating Tips", page 18 of my Summit Series A operating manual:
"3. If a slow burn is desired, set the air control to low. Active secondary burning should be present above the wood load. If it is not present or goes out shortly after, proper operating temperature has not been reached and the stove needs additional warm up time."

What PE does not go on to explain is that if the stove gets hot enough the EBT is going to automatically open and add more air that you cannot shut off. Others have speculated that the EBT is actually a device that allows PE to meet EPA standards with a large firebox. What PE does say is quoted below from their online brochure:
"Face the challenge of heating your bigger space head on with the Pacific Energy Summit Insert. The Summit is the only insert with patented Extended Burn Technology, giving you up to ten hours of burn for a full night of heat. The Summit's extremely efficient Heat Extraction System transfers the maximum amount of heat to your room, over the longest time. And unlike an open fire, you control the heat output with a one-touch control."

Many new owners, including James02 and self, got an unpleasant surpise after stoking fully then finding that the fire was burnng much hotter and faster than desired. The Summit is promoted as high capacity in terms of both heat output capability and burn time but this is not necessarily true. Needing to wait until a fire cools to reload is not an acceptable requirement for a stove intended as a primary heat source and prior knowledge of this would probably disuade many from purchasing the device. I live life on my schedule,not my fireplace's schedule. When it is time to go to bed on a cold night I want to load the firebox, turn the air down and retire and have moderate steady heat for a long time. This frequently does not happen and it is necessary for a perplexed owner to search forums like this one to find out why he cannot control his new fireplace.

The statement "you control the heat output with a one-touch control" is patently false and I believe the EBT is to blame.

You have been given some good advice here. If you choose to ignore it and burn the way "you" decide is right, then have at it, and keep whining about your problem.
How long have you been burning the stove again? Maybe learn the stove, in your system, which I think anyone will agree, you will not learn to do in 1 burning season.
ANY stove or insert is going to take off if you load it up on an already hot fire or coals, with good dry wood.

A manual is a general information avenue. No set rules or instructions could possibly apply to each and every system and how it is set up and used.
Your statement "Many new owners, including James02 and self, got an unpleasant surpise after stoking fully then finding that the fire was burnng much hotter and faster than desired". simply indicates you have not become accustomed to how your setup burns and how what temps to load, cut air back, how far back etc. I don't know many burners of any stove that have been burning for several seasons stating they cannot control their stove.

You simply need to put the time, learning and patience in to finding what is best for your set up.
I heat 2600sf with 2 loads a day, every 12 hours(Primary heat source). If you expect to heat with wood, you will need to learn patience, and be able to accept the fact that there will be a temp swing in the home of anywhere from 3 to 5 degrees +/- from time the stove is flaming, until time the level the coals and reload. You will do this with ANY stove, not specific to PE. The exception may be a cat stove, I don't have one so can't speak for them.
Again, no literature on a manufacturers site is spot on. It is impossible to say your house, my house and Joe Shmoe's house will all heat the same way, for the same time periods, with the same load of fuel.

I used to be like you, watching the inside house temp drop a few degrees, throwing more wood on an already hot load, and wondering why it was flaming away, burning more wood and not getting up to 80 degrees in here. I used to load every 8 hours, 3x a day. And at times with less than desirable wood, scooping coals out so I could make room to load her up yet again.
We all live on a schedule, you will need to learn your stoves capabilities,and learn when to load and know how long it will be until relaoad. Most of us all do this.

You will need to learn to adjust your burning habits and loading time to fit your schedule. Not just throw more splits in the firebox and expect it to act like a furnace set on a thermostat.
If you want a steady temp that you can dial in whatever you want, then sell the stove and buy a gas or oil furnace and be done with it. You are not going to get that from a wood burning stove or insert. And for the record, a fireplace insert is just that, an insert, not a fireplace. One makes heat, the other wastes it.

 

[ailanthus]

James.. Burning Locust right now and man its a hot burning wood

I had to cut the draft down a touch for sure.

loon

Love that stonework, loon!!

 

[loon]

I hope you didn't fill the stove up with just locust. I have mostly locust and oak and try to mix an equal amount in each load. If I filled my liberty with all locust, chances are it would be glowing red and starting to melt.

Mixed with Maple and Elm as i dont have alot of Locust this year, but next year there should be a good whack of it in the carport lopiliberty

loon

 

[James02]

I'm loving that locust though....Seems as if it lasts forever...