Suggestions on an OWB

[heaterman]

If you want to leave your boiler un attended for 2-3 days, look at a pellet boiler. (Windhager or Froling)

If you want to burn cordwood, get a Garn Jr. Not much more money than the CB you are looking at and it will actually work as advertised.
For some strange reason I am noticing a few of the PhaseII outdoor units from CB and others popping up on Craigs list and local classified/swapper type magazines.

Think about that for a minute or two....why does someone sell a boiler they paid $10-11K for only a couple years ago for $4-5,000 now........?

 

[hobbyheater]

Also, from what I'm told, any "new" boilers in NY have to have that EPA hangtag of "Phase 2" which for the OWB discussion leaves me with limited selection if I go that route.

With the small heating load that you have, an OWB is going to have problems with creosote caused by idling, and the creosote is going to plug the flue passages through the boiler. There is a Portage & Main Optimizer 250 here locally which heats an energy efficient house half the square footage of ours but burns twice as much wood. Look at the Garn Junior that I think you would be happy with. As noted above there's a reason you find these QWB boilers several years old being sold so cheap. As posted above I've been the route of upgrading boilers and it is not a cheap proposition.

You're in a position of having space heated with wood but have not heated with water and the concept of a constant heating load required to achieve a clean efficient burn when heating with water is not easily understood!
I

This is a clip on the bigger Garn, the smaller one works the same way. These Garns have been around for 30 years with good parts support and their operation is simple and efficient!

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[flyingcow]

i have 820 gallons of "storage" in the basement. Location of storage tank can be wherever you want it. You'll see storage sizing from 500 to 1000, sometimes 2000 gals. Depends on your heating load and what you want for firing times. Storage is like a battery of btu's.

Here's what I do. In the summer I start 1 fire every 4 to 5 days. But i do not start the fire until my storage tank temp is down to appx 115f. Once i start the fire, the boiler won't idle much at all. Runs basically wide open until out of wood. This basically brings my tank up to about 165+/-. There is a DHW coil in tank and I get 4 or 5 days worth DHW off of one moderate sized wheelbarrow full of wood. As fall comes around I will fire boiler up once very couple of days or in the deep of winter once a day. My existing heating system in my house is also tied into the storage tank. House calls for heat, pulls btu's from tank. The more heat you need the more often you fire boiler. Most of the time when i fire up boiler, it takes just a few minutes and I walk away and do not go back until i need another fire. This set up allows for the wood boiler to run wide open. That is the most efficient way to burn wood. Also, I have never cleaned my chimney. no creosote. i have been burning wood since 2008.

I hope others will chime in. They will explain this type of wood burning better than me.

I have a hard time believing the CB salesman saying he thinks you'll only need 4 cord of wood. As someone pointed out, convert the 800 gals of oil to btu's then convert the btu's to hard wood.

 

[flyingcow]

I agree with Heaterman. Look at pellet boilers or look very seriously at a GARN for stick wood. I am going to put a wood boiler in my truck garage, and it'll probably be a GARN.

You combine storage with any typical old style indoor wood boiler and you'll see some very good results.

If you burn cord wood, i can not stress enough having it seasoned at LEAST one yr. 2 yrs is better. I see less wood consumption with 18+ month seasoned wood. Basically let the wood evaporate the water before you try to burn it. You've seen the wood from camp fires peeing water before? Thats what happens inside a boiler.

 

[tjvt]

My zoning officer told me I have nothing to worry about as I'm on about 10 acres....setbacks, etc will be ok. My nearest neighbor is a good distance - probably 2500+ feet away. Plus he already has one (actually 2). He is the one that had an older CB 5036, took it out and installed this CB 2400 but now says he wants to go back to his old one. He said it isn't heating his barn the way the old one did. Which is why I became skeptical when he just threw it out there that he would sell it for $5000. I thought (from what I've read) that the 2400 would be too much for me and cause the problems that everyone has already mentioned. I guess my comparison would be burning the wood stove too cool, building up the creosote in my chimney. Of course he said no way but I know he wants to unload the unit pretty badly. He forgets I was in sales for 15+ years. I've seen the "No problem" response before. The dealer I contacted told me the 1450 is all I'd need. They haven't sold the 1400 in 3 years. So I guess I'd be looking at the 1450.

Also, from what I'm told, any "new" boilers in NY have to have that EPA hangtag of "Phase 2" which for the OWB discussion leaves me with limited selection if I go that route.

Any chance he burnt wet wood in his 5036, and he's trying to do the same with his 2400? I recently went through this boiler selection process myself, and my search started with Central Boiler. The local supplier had one unit left and was not buying any more. That was all I needed to hear. Keep researching available systems before pulling the trigger. I started this process in the spring and was planning to install an OWB. I didn't even know about indoor gassers at the time. After much research, the deciding factors were that I'd burn considerably less wood with an indoor gasser, and never have to step outside to fill the boiler. I now have a Tarm SP 40 in the garage.

 

[Coal Reaper]

the boiler itself is not the whole expense of the project. mine was around $6k with the total instal being about double that, located in outbuilding with spray foamed tanks, boiler room, and lines to house.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vedolux-37-install.110669/

 

[maple1]

My zoning officer told me I have nothing to worry about as I'm on about 10 acres....setbacks, etc will be ok. My nearest neighbor is a good distance - probably 2500+ feet away. Plus he already has one (actually 2). He is the one that had an older CB 5036, took it out and installed this CB 2400 but now says he wants to go back to his old one. He said it isn't heating his barn the way the old one did. Which is why I became skeptical when he just threw it out there that he would sell it for $5000. I thought (from what I've read) that the 2400 would be too much for me and cause the problems that everyone has already mentioned. I guess my comparison would be burning the wood stove too cool, building up the creosote in my chimney. Of course he said no way but I know he wants to unload the unit pretty badly. He forgets I was in sales for 15+ years. I've seen the "No problem" response before. The dealer I contacted told me the 1450 is all I'd need. They haven't sold the 1400 in 3 years. So I guess I'd be looking at the 1450.

Also, from what I'm told, any "new" boilers in NY have to have that EPA hangtag of "Phase 2" which for the OWB discussion leaves me with limited selection if I go that route.

How much wood does your neighbour burn in a year? Or could you get a straight-up answer to that?

With what sounds like limited time, you might be spending a good deal of it in years ahead chasing wood, if you go the OWB route. Don't underestimate what it will take to keep an OWB in decent wood - that's the part (or the biggest one) you will have to live with after the install is done & paid for.

One 'conventional' line of thinking when it comes to burning wood is 'burn time', and longer is better. That might still hold true for wood stoves, and some wood furnaces (hot air), but is the wrong way to think when it comes to boilers. Takes some a while to get their head around that one. With a boiler, you are essentially running a water cooled fire box. Think of the water cooling the fire, rather than the fire heating the water. Long burn times means only one thing - smoldering. And everything else that comes with it - like smoke & creosote. And then maybe (likely) creosote-induced corrosion. Burning wide open until the fire goes out is the way to go - and capturing all the heat when it does that with storage. Of course, that brings up another 'conventional' practice that must also go by the wayside - keeping the same fire going all winter. You make a new one every day. That one took me a little while to get used to - but I got over it quick & wouldn't go back to the 'old' way for anything.

You could get some storage in your garage and hardly miss the room it takes up. Depending on the configuration you find, it won't take much. I've got two 330 gallon propane tanks stacked in my basement. Their footprint is about 3.5' wide x 10.5' long, and about 7' high. If you find one big one, you can use the area above it for storage for other stuff or shelving or the like. Or, put a Garn Jr. in there, and put a shed for some of the stuff that's in there now where you were thinking of putting the OWB.

 

[aansorge]

I'd get a new interior stove. Get a blaze king to replace your VC...way cheaper than an OWB and will heat your home for the 13 hours easy.

 

[maple1]

More to think about:

Do you use a demumidifier now? Have any air conditioning? Or if not, would like to have some & could use it?

If yes to any of those, I would seriously consider a mini-split heat pump or two and forget about a wood boiler. You could do most of your heating with them, use the stove to offset or help on the real cold weather (or an updated one - don't know anything about your current stove), and get some very economical A/C out of the deal. You should be able to get two very good units installed for quite a bit less than a boiler setup would cost and practically forget about everything wood related, aside from the little bit your stove would need.

Even after the big investment in our heating system a couple years ago, I could very easily see a mini-split fitting in here at some point in the future.

 

[flyingcow]

My good friend and neighbor has an ee-cssic boiler.

More to think about:

Do you use a demumidifier now? Have any air conditioning? Or if not, would like to have some & could use it?

If yes to any of those, I would seriously consider a mini-split heat pump or two and forget about a wood boiler. You could do most of your heating with them, use the stove to offset or help on the real cold weather (or an updated one - don't know anything about your current stove), and get some very economical A/C out of the deal. You should be able to get two very good units installed for quite a bit less than a boiler setup would cost and practically forget about everything wood related, aside from the little bit your stove would need.

Even after the big investment in our heating system a couple years ago, I could very easily see a mini-split fitting in here at some point in the future.

That's my thoughts also.

 

[Coal Reaper]

the poor OP has so much to think about now!
but +1 on the blaze king if you dont have a problem with bringing wood in the house AND its in an appropriate location to distribute heat. then a HWHP for DHW that you can use year round.

 

[JP11]

He's getting a masters degree in wood heat in this thread alone.

Go back up and re read Maple's post.

This is physics at work. Don't rush. Bad decisions at this point will haunt you for years. There's a reason you see people selling their OWBs.

With these new pellet boilers that are out.. my advice has been. Got a woodlot or near FREE wood? Then go cord wood. Seriously consider a Garn (Original Poster might not be ideal for this, as he has 150degree water requirement). Some Other setups: A small outbuilding with a gasser, wood storage,then water storage IN the house.. Another idea, Gasser, in the home isn't bad. In the garage isn't to code.. but sure handy wood handling.

If you are buying wood cut and split... cost differential to pellets probably isn't worth it. These new pellet burners don't need a backup. Minimal cleaning requirements.

If your wife is dead set on not helping at all.. you better have a properly sized and controlled system!! My wife has grudgingly come along. She complained the first year, second year she helped. Now she just asks me why I bother asking her how it's going.. she's fine.

Heat pump water heaters, dehumidifiers.. it all plays into the equation.

Lots of issues here. Go slow. Talk out your ideas. PLENTY of help here. Everyone's willing to lend an idea. All we usually ask is that you read a bunch, learn the lingo, and get the right measurements and such to make sure you get the solution that will work for you.

JP

 

[Eagle Rock]

Thanks for the advice given so far. I haven't had time to post as I've been away on vacation. After reading thru, I started to look at the pellet furnaces. Anyone have advice on those. They are completely new to me. Would I install right in the basement next to current furnace and tie it in to the existing piping that's there? I'm kind of intrigued with the simplicity that it appears to have. Any suggestions on brands to look at? I looked at the Harman on their website and it looks too big for what I need. Anyone with experience that can speak to the maintenance? Thanks!

 

[ALL4GLH]

I had an e-classic 1400 heating my newer 2600sqft house and 1000sqft garage (40*) with no storage. It did smoke a little, after cycling on, until it got up to temp. I had it in an out building until my zoning officer had an issue with it. Now it's out and am replacing with a woodgun.

 

[stratton]

I had an e-classic 1400 heating my newer 2600sqft house and 1000sqft garage (40*) with no storage. It did smoke a little, after cycling on, until it got up to temp. I had it in an out building until my zoning officer had an issue with it. Now it's out and am replacing with a woodgun.

All4
where are you putting the wood gun? A friend of mine has the #140 It looks like a beast of a boiler.

 

[ALL4GLH]

In the same spot that my CB was in, inside of my pole shed. I have to pour a larger pad and insulate a small room, but, I have time since it won't be delivered until Sept.

 

[Karl_northwind]

Thanks for the advice given so far. I haven't had time to post as I've been away on vacation. After reading thru, I started to look at the pellet furnaces. Anyone have advice on those. They are completely new to me. Would I install right in the basement next to current furnace and tie it in to the existing piping that's there? I'm kind of intrigued with the simplicity that it appears to have. Any suggestions on brands to look at? I looked at the Harman on their website and it looks too big for what I need. Anyone with experience that can speak to the maintenance? Thanks!

I just finished installing a Windhager Biowin-26, and it went well, and after a couple little hiccups, (shipping damage and a defective Low water Cutout)the customer is happy with it. You will have a hard time finding something with similar performance for anywhere near the $$. Heaterman has one in his basement, so he can speak more to the day-to day use of them, but they run 90% efficient, and clean a couple times a season. If I didn't have a nice woodlot, I'd have one in the basement. and may still put one there.

karl