Sub Compact Tractors

[SpaceBus]

Stink? That's Dino Perfume! Good Stuff. Comes from Here! (Sinclair Refinery, Sinclair WY)View attachment 245321 View attachment 245322 View attachment 245321

Eh, I don't like diesel smell that much. Race gas, two strokes and race cars are a different thing.

 

[SpaceBus]

Anyway, most new subcompact tractors don't have DPF and still meet tier four. Common rail is more fuel efficient with less noise. Egr is the devil I agree.

 

[Medic21]

Anyway, most new subcompact tractors don't have DPF and still meet tier four. Common rail is more fuel efficient with less noise. Egr is the devil I agree.

Until you have to replace an injector on a common rail. $400+ and has to be programmed to the computer at $100+ am hour. I can send all four out from a Kubota Engine and have them reconditioned cheaper than that. The Tier 4 qualifications required a DPF, Diesel Particulate Filter, and the whole regen thing causes a lot of problems. Differential pressure sensors that go bad, injecting diesel on exhaust stroke to regen, the EGR valve, etc. I’m assuming you meant DEF.

tier 4 Final uses an SCR system like a catalytic converter in your gas car. More reliable but added things like a particulate matter sensor that seams to be a problem in a lot of them. The common rail system does its part to reduce particulate matter by atomizing the fuel better and controlling fuel injection more precisely for a cleaner burn. Just way more costly to work on.

DEF is 80+ HP and adds a whole new set of problems with the injectors plugging, tank vents, def quality sensors, etc. Overall the larger machines with DEF have proven to be more reliable outside of the DEF system. I delete emissions for people on a regular basis.

Tier 5 is coming and will probably be adding back a Particulate Filter for a while new set of problems.

 

[kennyp2339]

Owner of a Kioti 2017 CK4010HST, I have put approx. 250 hrs on it so far, zero issues and love it, I did fill the rear tires with calcium (in tubes) for additional ballast.
I generally use the tractor for either digging or moving materials (like firewood) I do have the rear backhoe attachment, plow, box blade, pto wood chipper front end loader, snow pusher, log tongs and big material front bucket (for moving mulch, snow & firewood)
The tractor has great power (diesel 40hp) the 4x4 has a locking dif, which make a huge difference, there are 3 levels on the hst trans - low, medium & high range. Low is great when working in the woods, medium is fun when plowing and high is ok, but honestly it lacks power (if running on hilly terrain) I mostly stay in the medium range for things unless skidding in the woods.
In the future I would like to buy pallet forks, front grapple, and a fixed thumb for the backhoe, I don't see myself ever selling this machine, the foot print is perfect and it can pick up close to 1800lbs with the front f-e-l.

 

[walhondingnashua]

What would someone consider a lot of hours on a used machine? I have seen several on marketplace in a price range I can live with. Usually 800-1500 hours. I know there are a lot of factors, but should I be really uncomfortable buying something with 1500 hours or is that still in a pretty good range for a used small deisel?

 

[salecker]

Barely broke in at 1500 hours
I bought a Bobcat S220 that had 1600 hours,it was like new.10 years later it's at 2600 zero issues except a hydroilc line.
I can still get more for it then i paid for it 10 years ago

 

[Dataman]

Got small 18hp Tractor for $5300 with Blade about 2015. Can sell for at least that much or more. 1400 hours. Runs Great. Sold the Snow Blower last fall and came out at least $600 ahead. Going backward too hard and it was only useful for Major Snows over 6". 28" Blower does the Job.

 

[Ashful]

What would someone consider a lot of hours on a used machine? I have seen several on marketplace in a price range I can live with. Usually 800-1500 hours. I know there are a lot of factors, but should I be really uncomfortable buying something with 1500 hours or is that still in a pretty good range for a used small deisel?

I've seen machines with that many hours on the odometer that were totally beat, and others that were barely approaching middle age. Three reasons:

1. Many machines have a proportional hour meter. It barely logs any hours if run at low RPM, such as a diesel machine used more for front-end loader than PTO.

2. Some machines sit outdoors, and maybe only see 50 hours per year. It doesn't matter if it only has 1000 hours, if it's been sitting outside 20 years. So, what year is said machine?

3. Many hour meters are broken, disconnected by prior owners, etc.

Look at the machine, see if you believe the hour meter. For a small diesel, 1000 hours wouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

[duramaxman05]

It all depends on how it has been maintained. You can look at one up close and see how it has been maintained.

 

[Ashful]

It all depends on how it has been maintained. You can look at one up close and see how it has been maintained.

To some limited degree, yes. But a crafty seller can pull the wool over the eyes of even a very well-educated buyer, with enough effort. Especially if said buyer wanted the thing bad enough to talk himself into something over which he might have some reservations or suspicion. I've been in the latter situation myself, I have the old tractors, boats, cars, and semi-frequent threats of divorce to prove it.

 

[kennyp2339]

Honestly when I was looking for tractors a while ago, I would look into certain things, hours obviously but maintenance was big, checking to see if the zerks were clogged, missing, tons of old grease, underside if there was mud caked up, dents, scratches, oil level, signs of leaks (check the front axle oil level) hoses for cracks / sun damage, make sure the 3 point raises up and down fluidly, not a lot of slop in the fel if it has one, idle to full throttle without tons of smoke, clutch slop and rear brakes. Do the hours match the wear, meaning if the tractor has 150 hours but the tires are bald, vs 600 hours and the tires are new, you get an idea of what type of owner had it.

 

[Rusty18]

What would someone consider a lot of hours on a used machine? I have seen several on marketplace in a price range I can live with. Usually 800-1500 hours. I know there are a lot of factors, but should I be really uncomfortable buying something with 1500 hours or is that still in a pretty good range for a used small deisel?

I think the motors on most ag stuff is designed to run 10,000 hrs at rated hp...much much longer with light use.
I have a 5205 deere with 3k+ hrs on it. Only thing it has had done is an oil seal on the rear axle. Pretty sure that was a screw up on the preload in the final drive bearings when it was built more so than a failure do to use.

 

[Ashful]

Pretty sure that was a screw up on the preload in the final drive bearings when it was built more so than a failure do to use.

Deere is still doing it. I blew a hydro seal and dumped several gallons of hydro oil all over my driveway on a 2019 3033R in the first 50 hours. Probably a $6 part, but they had to tear down the entire tractor to get to it. All under warranty, other than my time to clean up the spill and several lost days with my tractor, waiting on the repair.

The perfect time to own a tractor is after 50, but before 500 hours, based on my own experience. I’ve owned four Deere’s, one IH Cub, one Wheel Horse, one Bolens. All older machines, bought very used, other than two of the Deere’s.

Edit: oh, five Deere’s, if we count the zTrak, and not just tractors. 😀

 

[walhondingnashua]

I'm lucky enough to have a dealer for all of the main brands within an hours drive of me so all brands are an option. It's just going to come down to how much I get out of my ATV and sitting down with a few dealers to see what its actually going to cost me for a new one compared to used (with interest rates better on new tractors). Massy have even come into my radar being that their engines are mitsubishi made.
As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact. It will be hauling firewood, but I'm sure a sub compact will do as well as my ATV at least but it will be spending most of its time mowing my yard and maybe a few others to make a little money. Hauling a sub compact around on a trailer may be more convenient that a larger compact.

 

[kennyp2339]

I'm lucky enough to have a dealer for all of the main brands within an hours drive of me so all brands are an option. It's just going to come down to how much I get out of my ATV and sitting down with a few dealers to see what its actually going to cost me for a new one compared to used (with interest rates better on new tractors). Massy have even come into my radar being that their engines are mitsubishi made.
As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact. It will be hauling firewood, but I'm sure a sub compact will do as well as my ATV at least but it will be spending most of its time mowing my yard and maybe a few others to make a little money. Hauling a sub compact around on a trailer may be more convenient that a larger compact.

My 1st tractor was a 25hp sub-compact, the machine looked sharp, had a frontend loader and little rear backhoe, problem was, it was to small to be useful, the front bucket didnt have quick attach so no other implements could go on it, the rear backhoe could dig, but it was to small if you hit a rock or worked with real compacted soil, the speed of the machine was like 12mph on high full throttle, tractor was pretty light for moving quantities of firewood, Ultimately I was dis-satisfied with my purchase, went back to the dealer, was able to re-sell that machine and bought the biggest one I could fit in my garage, couldn't be happier with it.

 

[Gearhead660]

I'm lucky enough to have a dealer for all of the main brands within an hours drive of me so all brands are an option. It's just going to come down to how much I get out of my ATV and sitting down with a few dealers to see what its actually going to cost me for a new one compared to used (with interest rates better on new tractors). Massy have even come into my radar being that their engines are mitsubishi made.
As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact. It will be hauling firewood, but I'm sure a sub compact will do as well as my ATV at least but it will be spending most of its time mowing my yard and maybe a few others to make a little money. Hauling a sub compact around on a trailer may be more convenient that a larger compact.

If the main use would be moving firewood and mowing the yard, a 25 hp sub compact would be perfect. They are basically a big garden tractor. Easy to transport on a 12 ft single axle trailer.
I have a 25 hp unit that is between a sub and regular compact tractor, size wise. Good all around unit, not too big to mow the yard, but I do find myself pushing its limits lifting/moving things.

 

[Ashful]

As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact.

No way, don't do it! They're not that much less expensive than some compacts, and they're so ridiculously limited on weight and capability.

If you're moving firewood, you're going to learn the value of weight, very quickly. I actually tipped a nearly fully-ballasted Deere 855 MFWD two or three times (depending on how many feet of the ground you need to get one set of tires before you count it as a "tip"), and that's a good bit heavier (3500 lb. with ballast + loader) than any sub-compact of similar horsepower. When it was time to replace it, I would have actually preferred the more ergonomic 2-series, which is close in size and capacity to my two prior machines, but ended up going with a 3-series for the weight alone. No regrets, as I've even had the ass of that get light a few times getting big logs off the trailer, with filled tires and a ballast box.

Also, my friends who own sub-compacts have issues with plowing snow (too light), and finding implements that fit their silly non-standard 3-points (although this is getting better in recent years). I don't know a single person who has bought a sub-compact, and not had buyer's remorse, wishing they had just gotten a compact.

I would get an older / cheaper compact, before any brand-new sub-compact, every time. In fact, that's what I did for my first two tractors, a 1976 Deere 750 MFWD bought in 2011, and a 1986 Deere 855 MFWD bought around 2014. Both old, but both solid and more capable than any sub-compact.

 

[walhondingnashua]

I appreciate all the feedback. I am probably going to end up with a sub compact. It is mostly going to mow my yard and another yard I will be trailering too, so the smaller size may be nicer there.
After a good deal of research, I am leaning strongly towards the Massey Ferguson GC series. Most reviews say that they are the best built, especially for the price. They claim to work at lower rpms, which is a big sell to me and have a higher gpm output than other manufacturers. I also have 2 dealers within 25 miles. Debating on new or used, will buy new if the wife OKs it.
Any input on experience with the masseys would be great.
The last question I have is something I just need some clarification on. I read that the Masseys are CAT 1 and the John Deeres are Limited CAT 1. From what I understand, this means the JDs have more limits on the 3pt attachments they can use and the Masseys will fit most aftermarket 3pt implements? Am I correct in my understanding?

 

[duramaxman05]

I appreciate all the feedback. I am probably going to end up with a sub compact. It is mostly going to mow my yard and another yard I will be trailering too, so the smaller size may be nicer there.
After a good deal of research, I am leaning strongly towards the Massey Ferguson GC series. Most reviews say that they are the best built, especially for the price. They claim to work at lower rpms, which is a big sell to me and have a higher gpm output than other manufacturers. I also have 2 dealers within 25 miles. Debating on new or used, will buy new if the wife OKs it.
Any input on experience with the masseys would be great.
The last question I have is something I just need some clarification on. I read that the Masseys are CAT 1 and the John Deeres are Limited CAT 1. From what I understand, this means the JDs have more limits on the 3pt attachments they can use and the Masseys will fit most aftermarket 3pt implements? Am I correct in my understanding?

We have a new john deere 3033r and it's cat 1. Haven't had any problems using other cat 1 implements

 

[walhondingnashua]

We have a new john deere 3033r and it's cat 1. Haven't had any problems using other cat 1 implements

I think the limited CAT only applies to the 1000 series JDs.

 

[hedge wood]

I appreciate all the feedback. I am probably going to end up with a sub compact. It is mostly going to mow my yard and another yard I will be trailering too, so the smaller size may be nicer there.
After a good deal of research, I am leaning strongly towards the Massey Ferguson GC series. Most reviews say that they are the best built, especially for the price. They claim to work at lower rpms, which is a big sell to me and have a higher gpm output than other manufacturers. I also have 2 dealers within 25 miles. Debating on new or used, will buy new if the wife OKs it.
Any input on experience with the masseys would be great.
The last question I have is something I just need some clarification on. I read that the Masseys are CAT 1 and the John Deeres are Limited CAT 1. From what I understand, this means the JDs have more limits on the 3pt attachments they can use and the Masseys will fit most aftermarket 3pt implements? Am I correct in my understanding?

I had a Agco ST-25 for fifteen years which Massey had the same model with red paint. They were made by Iseki. I bought it used with only fifty hours on it and sold it for what I had paid for it fifteen years ago. It had just under 3,000 hours on it when I sold it. Never had any issues with it just oil, filters, tires and a couple batteries. I looked at the Masseys this time but the dealer net work is not good in my area. I ended up buying a MX-6000 Kubota with a FIL. Bought it last June and have put a couple hundred hours on it and so far so good.

 

[Ashful]

Same as duramaxman05, I have a 3033r. Wouldn't even look at another tractor, after owning this.

But I believe the "limited" cat 1 refers to the lift height, which is less than their other cat-1's, and thus limits which implements might work with it. However, I also believe there's no standard lift height defined. It's entirely possible that the Massey "cat 1" may lift no higher than JD's "limited cat 1", just that JD is doing you the favor of letting you know about it prior to purchase.

There's a youtube channel called "Tractor Time with Tim". I don't really like the channel, but I've seen a few, and I do seem to recall him having one specifically talking about the various limited cat-1 and cat-0 hitches on subcompacts, or at least the 1-series Deere. It might have been in his ballast box video, as I remember him getting hung on the ballast box while trying to negotiate a trailer ramp.

If used mostly for mowing, I'd buy a zero turn. My first purchases moving into the current house were a 4-year old Zero Turn and an old (Deere 750) tractor. Could have bought one tiny new tractor with a mower deck, and spent much more for much less, but I'm sure glad I didn't! The mower is still running like a champ, the tractor has been traded in twice, first for power steering and then later for something bigger.

 

[ericm979]

You don't even need a zero turn to mow the lawn. A regular riding mower will do, and they cost less. Which leaves more for the tractor.

A tractor large enough to pick up a reasonable load will be too heavy for mowing the lawn.

 

[Ashful]

You don't even need a zero turn to mow the lawn...

... said no one who has ever actually owned a zero turn and a few acres. Ever.

Just kidding, sometimes the budget dictates tough choices, and you can mow with a tractor, if there's really no other option. But I grew up mowing lawns on riding mower "tractors". Bolens, Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse, and one little Deere. You couldn't pay me to go back to that speed.

My Deere 855 had a 72" mower on it, when I bought the machine. I actually gave it a whirl, just for kicks, but it was way slower and more tedious than the smaller 60" zero turn. The 72" mower deck went on ebay the very next day.

 

[walhondingnashua]

I did have the debate with myself about owning 2 machines, 1 to mow with and one for other tasks. A zero turn can mow most of my yard, put there is a portion that is to step and they just spin out on (I've borrowed my in-law's big cub cadet with a wheel) and I'm not interested in buying any cheap box store machines of any kind anymore. A box store type machine is the only thing that would fit in my budget. I don't really want an older tractor that I'm going to have to work on a lot. I just don't have the time to do that anymore. Having 1 machine to maintain, that I can depend on to work when I need it is a high priority for me.
My SCUT will be mowing for roughly 1-2 hours a week for 5-6 months but it can work for me year round doing lots of other things. And really, it will be a huge upgrade for me in both of the major tasks i will use it for. I was mowing with a 1989 Wheel Horse with a 42" deck. A larger deck and a faster tractor will be a major difference for me. As far as wood goes, I was using a AWD wheeler. Any improvement on those to machines will seem like night and day to me.

But thank you for the advice.