Struck Magnatrac (or other crawler/dozer type vehicles): Opinions?

[greg13]

What about a toro dingo.

It's tracked and you stand on the back of it. Easy enough to jump off if it did get sideways. You can get a grapple hook attachment for it . You can also get a stump grinding attachment for it. I'm thinking you can also get a front loader attachment for it. Lots of uses for one of those things.

You won't be able to lift huge logs but it will lift logs far heavier than you, I , and 4 other guys combined could lift.

Perhaps an option not sure

A well used Dingo or their counterparts will run you at least $6000. You could buy a lot of split & seasoned wood for that kind of money.

 

[jetsam]

Well, I just happen to be selling a well used Dingo! Photo's my profile picture. Who bids $6000?

 

[woodhog73]

A well used Dingo or their counterparts will run you at least $6000. You could buy a lot of split & seasoned wood for that kind of money.

I wouldn't spend $6k on a dingo or any other tracked vehicle. But then again I'm still able to manually move firewood with my trusty wheelbarrow.

I suppose that will change someday as none of us are getting any younger.

But if I had to spend money for firewood I'd probably stop burning. I enjoy processing firewood and I've got to maintain the woods anyways.

What's a new Dingo cost ? $6k seems steep . I was thinking they were between $8 and $10 k new

 

[D8Chumley]

Top speed is 3 mph? I think I would quickly get frustrated with the slow pace.

I've run dozers from a D 3 to D 9 and that's about as fast as they go. I'd like to try that thing out, I wonder how much it weighs? I'd think the weight of the tractor would be a big factor in how much or how well it can pull. @Scott S who makes that little tractor your buddy got? I could find some use for that around here and that price is attractive

 

[greg13]

I wouldn't spend $6k on a dingo or any other tracked vehicle. But then again I'm still able to manually move firewood with my trusty wheelbarrow.

I suppose that will change someday as none of us are getting any younger.

But if I had to spend money for firewood I'd probably stop burning. I enjoy processing firewood and I've got to maintain the woods anyways.

What's a new Dingo cost ? $6k seems steep . I was thinking they were between $8 and $10 k new

Figure $25-30K new
Here is a link for some used machines
http://www.machinio.com/cat/toro-dingo

 

[SCOTT S.]

I've run dozers from a D 3 to D 9 and that's about as fast as they go. I'd like to try that thing out, I wonder how much it weighs? I'd think the weight of the tractor would be a big factor in how much or how well it can pull. @Scott S who makes that little tractor your buddy got? I could find some use for that around here and that price is attractive

That is a old Struck. He wasn't sure of the year thought it was from late 70's early 80's.

 

[D8Chumley]

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to start looking around maybe I'll get lucky and find one in my price range

 

[heavy hammer]

It's amazing how much they want for even a little piece of equipment. All these different ideas are great, but the cost is up there. I have seen these little tracked guys before they are slow but can get it done. Main thing to remember if you do get one is you have a small machine to make little jobs easier not a D8 that can pull a house over. I love when you see machines being used for stuff like this and the owner wonders why it keeps breaking down.

 

[heavy hammer]

It's amazing how expensive small equipment is. But as said earlier you want a piece of some size you can drop 50k like its nothing. As you get older the toys change a little but man do they get pricey.

 

[woodhog73]

I just cant get over the prices of those Dingos. Id buy a used skid steer before I spent 30k on a new dingo.

Sure a new skidsteer will set you back $50k but for $25 k you could get a pretty decent used skid steer with a lot of usable life left in it. Any brand too Bobcat, New Holland, Cat, etc $25k for a used skidsteer to me would be a better purchase than $25 k for a dingo.

 

[greg13]

You have to remember that a Dingo (or the other walk behinds) ARE Skidsteers. They have the same hydraulic systems as full size skids just on a smaller scale with just about the prices for pumps & motors. Plus they are a lot tighter to work on. The drive motors run around $1000 each side and usually when they start leaking the main shaft is bad. You can buy any part in the motor EXCEPT the main shaft.

 

[heavy hammer]

I have been told that is a big problem with even skid steers, great machines but very difficult to work on. They basically have to be opened up to work on and are a pain. Most tractors especially the older ones are fairly simple, most people with some mechanical knowledge can work on them. My good buddy just picked a McCormick cub with four or five implements all restored for $800. Granted it's two wheel drive with a four cylinder gas motor but for his four acre hobby farm it works. I think you would be better off with something like that but just my thoughts. Big equipment is for the guys who use it all day or have way more money than they know what to do with it. Check out eBay there is always someone selling some form of equipment they bought that they rarely use. My buddy with the cub had a 50 horse new holland that he got and then sold to his father in law because it was to big he had it just over a year.

 

[Jags]

Folks - don't forget that the OP specifically stated gullies and steep. Those old rear wheel drive tractors ain't the right piece of equipment for that. A skidsteer might climb it but won't have any "pull" left in it. A tracked version might be a little better. Anyhow, just trying to point out the original intent of the post.

 

[jeffesonm]

I had a 1960 ish Oliver OC-46 crawler tractor for a bit. It weighed around 6000 lbs if I remember correctly, lifted like 2500 lbs with the bucket. Only 25 hp or so but geared pretty low and would push over trees, pull giant logs and never, ever, ever got stuck. It's center of gravity was so low I would not hesitate to drive that thing sideways across any slope. Not a piece of plastic on it... if anything broke you could weld it back together or get a replacement from a place called Zimmerman's in PA.



I think it cost me $2500? I ended up selling it because the metal tracks mean you can't really drive it on lawns or paved surfaces, but that thing sure was fun. You should be able to find one for not too much... they were called Cletrac before Oliver.

 

[jetsam]

Folks - don't forget that the OP specifically stated gullies and steep. Those old rear wheel drive tractors ain't the right piece of equipment for that. A skidsteer might climb it but won't have any "pull" left in it. A tracked version might be a little better. Anyhow, just trying to point out the original intent of the post.

Has anyone said 'old pickup truck with a big winch on the front' yet?

 

[jetsam]

I had a 1960 ish Oliver OC-46 crawler tractor for a bit. It weighed around 6000 lbs if I remember correctly, lifted like 2500 lbs with the bucket. Only 25 hp or so but geared pretty low and would push over trees, pull giant logs and never, ever, ever got stuck. It's center of gravity was so low I would not hesitate to drive that thing sideways across any slope. Not a piece of plastic on it... if anything broke you could weld it back together or get a replacement from a place called Zimmerman's in PA.

View attachment 176675

I think it cost me $2500? I ended up selling it because the metal tracks mean you can't really drive it on lawns or paved surfaces, but that thing sure was fun. You should be able to find one for not too much... they were called Cletrac before Oliver.

That looks like an awesome little machine. Discussion thread about them here. (Short version: Maybe pass if you're not a mechanic, but otherwise they seem well liked amongst their owners.)

 

[D8Chumley]

and never, ever, ever got stuck. It's center of gravity was so low I would not hesitate to drive that thing sideways across any slope.

You obviously weren't trying hard enough lol. I've been stuck many times in a dozer, but we get into some real chit and on steep slopes. I'm cutting in a basin now with a JD650 dozer, 2:1 slopes and wet dirt. Can't hang on the slope I just slide to the bottom, and the springs bleeding into the bottom make it a real mess. I haven't been stuck here yet... But it's coming

 

[ElmBurner]

So, here's the kind of stuff I am working with. These particular pictures don't show the worst of it, but if you notice where I am shooting compared to the "horizon", you can see that there is quite a bit of elevation change. Lots of crap all over the ground as well.

Is the consensus still that a truck or tractor would work? It doesn't seem feasible or safe to me, but this isn't something I have a lot of experience with either...

 

[D8Chumley]

In the first pic, where the 2 slopes meet at the bottom, is there a creek there? If so you might have problems tracking through it if it's wet. Maybe lay a couple logs as a bridge parallel and in the creek bed itself to track across with the mini dozer. Honestly, that doesn't look bad at all to me, but I do this for a living. What type of soil is under the topsoil? Clay will be an issue if it's wet. Gradual turns will be your friend, you won't tear as much up. Try to track in a straight line going up the steeper sections, avoid trying to turn as you want as much power going to both tracks as possible. The blade will be good for pushing those downed logs out of the way, and some smaller trees to make an access road. If your "haul road" starts rutting, drag it off with the blade. Also staggering your track marks will help in soft conditions. Making a dray or some type of sled or aid to help the logs from digging in will make a big difference. Make sure you have a plan to get unstuck before you get stuck. Old tractor tires or car tires will work with a smaller machine, throw that under the track(s) and the grousers will pull it under and a lot of times it will walk itself up and out. If I can think of anything else I'll revisit
Edit: turning around where it's flatter will be a better plan, but not at the low point. Low point will probably be softer

 

[jetsam]

So, here's the kind of stuff I am working with. These particular pictures don't show the worst of it, but if you notice where I am shooting compared to the "horizon", you can see that there is quite a bit of elevation change. Lots of crap all over the ground as well.

Is the consensus still that a truck or tractor would work? It doesn't seem feasible or safe to me, but this isn't something I have a lot of experience with either...

View attachment 176716 View attachment 176718

That terrain is not out of bounds for a farm tractor- provided you respect its high center of gravity- or even for an old pickup.

In either case you have to recognize the limitations of your tools and use them appropriately. You wouldn't expect the tractor to tootle sideways along the steep part of the embankment without threatening to tip over, and you would expect the truck to need winch assist going up the hill on a muddy day. (Truck also may not be able to cross that wash with a load, even with the winch, unless you fill it in a little- maybe drop a tree right into it and load some dirt over top.)

Tracked vehicles I can't offer much advice on but they sure sound fun.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Look at something other than John Deere. JD is historical overpriced. With the pictures you have shown we skid trees with our Allis Chalmers WD and WD45 quite frequently. We use the lift arms on the WD to raise the front if the log off the ground when skidding. Tons of weight transfer, no slipping for us.

If it's so wet we are cutting ruts it's to wet to be working. We try not to tear up trails because they are un- driveable when thingd get dry and hard.

 

[D8Chumley]

Agreed with both of the above. It's hard for me to say by looking at pictures if it's suitable for a pickup truck but if you have that, I'd certainly give it a try before buying something more expensive. Got the popcorn popping, waiting for results here

 

[ElmBurner]

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. It's helpful to hear from people who have done this sort of work before.

The ground is a very soft/sandy clay out in the pasture area (to the very rear of the pictures I posted). Once you get into the timber, it is the same stuff but loaded with organic matter and it all becomes even more soft and loose. As I walk through the timber, it feels like I am walking on one of those rubber/foam mats. There's a noticeable "give" to the ground. This probably explains the erosion issues I am having, as you can almost stick your hand into the ground and grab a handful of soil. It just washes away if there's no roots in it.

There is no running water back there. Just whatever drains off the pasture during rains.

My current pick-up is 2WD without a locking differential and can move around in the drier and flatter areas if I put snow chains on it and the ground is dry. If the ground is wet...forget about it. I just dig a hole and go nowhere. I've had to unstick myself using boards, come-alongs, and shovels. In some cases, by letting the ground dry out first. It's no fun at all. Right now, I park at the edge of the wood and fell all the trees in that direction. Otherwise, I get to carry the wood out by hand. That gets old in a hurry and stops me from doing anything with the wood in the interior.

Good point about being able to use the blade to clear a trail and push debris away. I hadn't considered that...goes to show how much I have to learn from the more experienced folks here.

I guess I am reading the tractor recommendations as being able to carry more weight and the truck recommendations as being able to do the work faster. Neither one of those are big factors for me, as I'm just one guy doing this as a weekend warrior. Doing one tree in a weekend would be plenty for me. The smaller footprint, lower parts cost, smaller fuel expense, etc. is what makes this mini-dozer appealing to me. I am (possibly over-) concerned about causing problems with erosion, so the idea of a truck or tractor putting big ruts into the ground bothers me.

Decisions, decisions....whatever way I end up going, I'll try to remember to come back here and update.

Also might take some pictures of the worst of the gullies, just for bragging rights.

 

[jetsam]

I learned my lesson about 4 wheel and all wheel drive in the military. I put a deuce and a half into low transmission and 10 wheel drive, and hit a swampy area to power through it with my mighty truck and its powerful multiaxle drivetrain.

I had to walk a couple miles back to the shop and admit I was a moron, and then we got a 5 ton stuck trying to pull the deuce out.

And then I had to wash three incredibly filthy trucks, but I did learn some good lessons about the value of having drivetrain power to all wheels- lesson number one being that a powered wheel is only useful if it has some amount of traction.

In conclusion, 4 wheel drive is useful in some situations that would be marginal for a single wheel drive vehicle, but a rwd truck with a big winch on the front can go places no 4wd truck can. It's not a pleasant trip though, and you do need to try to get stuck in cable range of something sturdy.

I vote for the giant bulldozer!

(Actually, while I am trotting out military stories, we had john deere forklifts that would not bat an eye at that terrain; doubt they resell for a few thousand dollars though.)

If that's the same kind we had, the frame is a big X with a ball joint in the center, so it can sit on any kind of odd position. Forks do all the usual forklift things plus rotate, so you can level a load with the body at two different angles on an uneven surface.

 

[blades]

fwd articulated front end loader - pricy also - and when they are sold as used they are really used- center pivot is the main wear point. Struck has been around as long as i can remember - Cedarburg Wi bout a 1/2hr drive from my shop There are a couple versions of the crawler- depending on your pocket book and depending on your abilities in kit form as well. Skid loaders are nice- also pricy- problem when working by yourself is once you lift the front implement you are stuck inside. Small true used tractors ( called Compact Utility Tractors- cut for short) are insanely priced particularly if fwd- the SCUT( slightly overgrown lawn tractors aren't any better) Basically tractors are made to pull hence that front axle is the weak link when lifting loads. You can get a lot of work done with the 2wd tractors( minding your manners of course) and prices used are much more reasonable to look at. Look for sizes related to orchard use. The Venerable Ford 8n or 9n( even better with the optional/ aftermarket 2speed primary tranny) and others can be had reasonably- Massey Ferguson 100 or 500 series just a couple types. One also has to be aware of where the units were built or parts there of on any of the used market units- particularly import types ( also known as the grey market units) sometimes what looks like a great deal is that way because parts are no longer available.