Stove Selection

[tfordman]

Hi all,

My wife and I bought a house in Northeast Tennessee this year (west of Johnson City). The home has a ventless gas insert, which both of us would prefer to do away with. I know there are lots of people who say that they're fine, but I just can't see how it's a good idea... The existing insert is also surrounded by a floor-to-ceiling stone/tile facade, which my wife isn't keen on. Here's a photo:



And, here is the floorplan of the house. It's about 2,100 square feet, and there is an unfinished basement underneath. There is an attic above as well, which is also unfinished and has about 12" of blow-in insulation. The home was built in 2007. The ceiling height in the family room is about 11 feet.



We are thinking of removing the existing insert as well as the entire facade and installing a wood stove in the corner instead. I have a number of questions, but the foremost one is which stove to select. Being in NE TN, it gets cold in the winter, but not cold like some of you guys get! This will be our first winter here so I'm not totally sure what to expect - but I believe it got down to 0-ish a few times last winter as an overnight low. I imagine we will have a decently long shoulder season as well. That said, I would like to have the ability to heat the house with the stove alone, even though we do have a heat pump.

I would like the ability to load the stove up before bed and come out and still have enough going in the stove to feed more splits in and keep the fire going, rather than having to re-light. I've been looking at the Jotul F445 and F500, as well as the Blaze King Ashford 20/30 and Sirocco 20/30. I like that the BKs are thermostat stoves, and of course the long published burn times. Given our relatively mild climate, though, I can't help but wonder how much of the "burn time" discussions that I have read on here relate more to those of you in harsher winter climates, and whether or not I would realistically run into issues with the non-BK stoves in that regard.

Given the home size, stove location, and geographic location, what size stove would you guys be looking at installing? I have a tendency to go big or go home, but I don't want to roast my socks off either.

Thanks in advance for your advice and wisdom!

 

[begreen]

A BK stove would work fine. They are popular out west where they are made because the thermostatic control allows them to output low steady heat. The stove will primarily heat the core of the house. The floorplan shows that heat circulation to the periphery locations will not be as good due to them being closed off by doorways. Plan on cooler bedrooms.

 

[tfordman]

Yep, there doesn't seem to be a way around the cooler bedrooms issue. The HVAC return grate is located at the south end of the living room (on the other side of the 14' dimension in Guest Bed 1), and all of the ductwork in the basement is insulated, so I am hoping to be able to move at least some of the heat from the living room to the rest of the house that way. I doubt it'll be substantial, but better than nothing (and less stuffy/still, in any case).

 

[stoveliker]

Burn time depends on definition (last coal, usable heat, dropping out of the cat active regime etc).
My BK has run for 36-37 hrs on a load.of oak. Of course it was relatively warm outside (45 F) meaning I didn't need a lot of heat. But much less long times when it's below 20 F of course

If you go BK, get the 30 models. The output is more or less the same but the fuel tank will last longer.

 

[begreen]

That said, I would like to have the ability to heat the house with the stove alone, even though we do have a heat pump.

If the heat pump system is fully insulated (supplies, returns, trunk duct and plenunms) then using the heatpump fan may work for general recirculation of the heat. Many stoves 2 cu ft or larger will provide good heat for 8 hrs, especially in milder weather. For 2100 sq ft I would go up to a 3 cu ft stove if the intent is to circulate the heat throughout the house with fan assistance. In milder weather, just build a smaller fire. You may decide to use the heatpump exclusively until the temps drop below 40ºF.

 

[BKVP]

Make certain you have lots of well-seasoned cordwood. Purchase a moisture meter and read posts here about proper use. Build a covered wood shed and get ready to enjoy wood heat!

BKVP

 

[bobanne]

Make certain you have lots of well-seasoned cordwood. Purchase a moisture meter and read posts here about proper use. Build a covered wood shed and get ready to enjoy wood heat!

BKVP

Hi BKVP, I've heard you are the expert on Blaze King stoves. In a comment above it was said, "If you go BK, get the 30 models. The output is more or less the same but the fuel tank will last longer." But I've been told by the dealer near me that my 1100 sqft home is too small and they recommend the Ashford 20.2 instead of the 30.2. I attached a sketch of the house layout. I'd love to get your guidance on this before I pull the trigger.

 

[stoveliker]

(speaking when I should stay shut...)

The overheating argument (small house argument) has to do with what the lowest rate is that BTUs are produced in a stove. Too many BTUs and you cook yourself out of the home/room.

BK says for the 20.2 models:

Ashford 20.2 - Blaze King

Our craftsmen used the timeless medium of cast iron to create a beautiful and elegant piece of furniture with detailed relief and curves. The Ashford is available in painted metallic black, cast gray and chestnut gloss enamel. Burled walnut is carved for the door and bypass handles. This creates...

www.blazeking.com

Constant Heat Output on High
28,355 BTU's/h for up to 8 hours

Constant Heat Output on Low
11,342 BTU's/h for up to 20 hours



And for the 30.2 models:

Ashford 30.2 - Blaze King

Our craftsmen used the timeless medium of cast iron to create a beautiful and elegant piece of furniture with detailed relief and curves. The Ashford is available in painted metallic black, cast gray and chestnut gloss enamel. Burled walnut is carved for the door and bypass handles. This creates...

www.blazeking.com

Constant Heat Output on High
35,980 BTU's per hour for 10 hours

Constant Heat Output on Low
11,993 BTU's per hour for up to 30 hours

That is a meager 5.7% difference in BTU output.
Meaning if one overheats you the other will too. And if one (the 20.2) does not, the other will not either. Yet the other (30.2) will be able to keep that output for 50% longer time (because of the 50% larger firebox = 50% larger fuel load).

Of course these low outputs and long durations are all dependent on the specifics of the install (chimney); they need to meet what the stove needs, in order to be able to perform as specced.

As an example, my 30.2 model loaded with red oak (admittedly a tightly packed "stove tetris" load with splits that did not have any bark or sapwood, only the highest BTU heartwood) took 36-37 hrs before the catalytic combustor cooled down below its active zone.
A chimney that's too drafty (tall) will decrease that time (because more air is sucked in, so the burn rate will be higher, given that I had the air as closed off as one can in this stove). A chimney that's too short will make you need to have the air farther open, which may result in similar times, but is generally not ideal as smoke roll-out might happen due to insufficient draft.

Anyway, see the numbers above. If you have the physical space, and three and a half 1.5 kW plug-in electric heaters (putting out a cumulative 12000 BTUs per hour) is not too much for your home (!...), these stoves will not overheat your place.

 

[bobanne]

(speaking when I should stay shut...)

The overheating argument (small house argument) has to do with what the lowest rate is that BTUs are produced in a stove. Too many BTUs and you cook yourself out of the home/room.

BK says for the 20.2 models:

Ashford 20.2 - Blaze King

Our craftsmen used the timeless medium of cast iron to create a beautiful and elegant piece of furniture with detailed relief and curves. The Ashford is available in painted metallic black, cast gray and chestnut gloss enamel. Burled walnut is carved for the door and bypass handles. This creates...

www.blazeking.com

Constant Heat Output on High
28,355 BTU's/h for up to 8 hours

Constant Heat Output on Low
11,342 BTU's/h for up to 20 hours



And for the 30.2 models:

Ashford 30.2 - Blaze King

Our craftsmen used the timeless medium of cast iron to create a beautiful and elegant piece of furniture with detailed relief and curves. The Ashford is available in painted metallic black, cast gray and chestnut gloss enamel. Burled walnut is carved for the door and bypass handles. This creates...

www.blazeking.com

Constant Heat Output on High
35,980 BTU's per hour for 10 hours

Constant Heat Output on Low
11,993 BTU's per hour for up to 30 hours

That is a meager 5.7% difference in BTU output.
Meaning if one overheats you the other will too. And if one (the 20.2) does not, the other will not either. Yet the other (30.2) will be able to keep that output for 50% longer time (because of the 50% larger firebox = 50% larger fuel load).

Of course these low outputs and long durations are all dependent on the specifics of the install (chimney); they need to meet what the stove needs, in order to be able to perform as specced.

As an example, my 30.2 model loaded with red oak (admittedly a tightly packed "stove tetris" load with splits that did not have any bark or sapwood, only the highest BTU heartwood) took 36-37 hrs before the catalytic combustor cooled down below its active zone.
A chimney that's too drafty (tall) will decrease that time (because more air is sucked in, so the burn rate will be higher, given that I had the air as closed off as one can in this stove). A chimney that's too short will make you need to have the air farther open, which may result in similar times, but is generally not ideal as smoke roll-out might happen due to insufficient draft.

Anyway, see the numbers above. If you have the physical space, and three and a half 1.5 kW plug-in electric heaters (putting out a cumulative 12000 BTUs per hour) is not too much for your home (!...), these stoves will not overheat your place.

Thanks for explaining. I have to agree with your reasoning, and if I understand correctly what I'm reading about catalytic stoves, I don't have to worry about creosote buildup even with the low burns.

 

[stoveliker]

Thanks for explaining. I have to agree with your reasoning, and if I understand correctly what I'm reading about catalytic stoves, I don't have to worry about creosote buildup even with the low burns.

That depends on whehter you are operating within the range that the stove can handle.
Smolder the fire with the cat in the active temperature range, and you should be good.
Do so with not enough draft, leading to insufficient smoldering (insufficient "gaseous fuel" production for the cat in the pile of smoldering wood), and the cat won't be able to keep its temperature up, drop out of its active range, leading to smoke going up the flue and messing up both cat and flue.

The settings that keep your cat in the active range will depend on flue (height etc.), weather, etc. Every stove has a learning curve to figure out what works when.

So, you are right, if one follows the instructions (and keeps the cat in the active range). If not, you can mess up a chimney as well with a cat stove as with tube stoves.

 

[BKVP]

What he said! The larger fuel tank of the 30 just means longer burn times between reloading. Being a steel firebox with cast sides, you can glide along with convective heat... you'll want to burn on high periodically to keep firebox clean of deposits.

BKVP

 

[bobanne]

That depends on whehter you are operating within the range that the stove can handle.
Smolder the fire with the cat in the active temperature range, and you should be good.
Do so with not enough draft, leading to insufficient smoldering (insufficient "gaseous fuel" production for the cat in the pile of smoldering wood), and the cat won't be able to keep its temperature up, drop out of its active range, leading to smoke going up the flue and messing up both cat and flue.

The settings that keep your cat in the active range will depend on flue (height etc.), weather, etc. Every stove has a learning curve to figure out what works when.

So, you are right, if one follows the instructions (and keeps the cat in the active range). If not, you can mess up a chimney as well with a cat stove as with tube stoves.

Do you recommend any reading material to shorten the learning curve? I'll make sure the chimney is tall enough, but the rest sounds more like an art.

 

[stoveliker]

The manual. You can download it already now from the BK site.

And starting a thread here with your experiences, questions, and pics/videos.
Quite a few here can help with this stove.

And if you choose another one, the same approach will be useful.

 

[BKVP]

There are hundreds of posts for all types of stoves that address "the learning curve."

BKVP

 

[Todd]

And you don’t always have to load the 30 completely full but that extra capacity is there for when you need it. When I had my Princess there were times in the shoulder season where if I loaded it full and burned it low and slow for 24 hours it did get too warm in the house. So after getting use to the stove and looking at the weather more closely there were times when I would just fill it 1/2-3/4 full.