Stove pipe worries
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Riddlefiddle
Member
Well I would rather have it going all the way thru than only sticking into the thimble by 2" inches. Its all up to code. The stove runs fine and the draft is good. I don't see a problem with it.
Why not make it right and make it flush? And again your county uses state code which does not call for it to stick through infact it is the oposite. Just because yours works that way does not mean it is right or that it should be recomended to others.
This code??
https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/new_york/NY_Residential/PDFs/Chapter 10.pdf
R1001.13 Inlet.
Inlets to masonry chimneys shall enter from the side. Inlets shall have a thimble of fireclay, rigid refractory material or metal that will prevent the connector from pulling out of the inlet or from extending beyond the wall of the liner.
Perhaps his flue is 8 inch which closed off by the connector pipe by 2 inches would still have the minimum appliance connector size and work ok, but obviously can't extend into flue.......
Yes it can work but not as well as it should. That pipe extending in will create extra turbulence which will hurt draft ontop of the restriction. It just bothers me when people give totally incorrect advice especially if it is a code officer which is apparently who told riddle this. And thanks for posting the code. I am on my phone and it is a pain to link to codes with it.
VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
Welcome to the forum. Does your thimble transition to another horizontal section (bridge) before it reaches the verticle section, or is the thimble connected directly to the verticle portion of the inner chimney?
VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
I understand this post to support NOT inserting the connector past the OUTER wall of the liner (vertical section).
Yes, extending beyond the wall of liner would extend into flue space. This section pertains to cementing the thimble in place to prevent movement. Effective flue area cannot be smaller than square inch area of appliance outlet found in the mechanical code;
https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/imc-2015/chapter/8/chimneys-and-vents#8
801.6 Minimum Size of Chimney or Vent
Except as otherwise provided for in this chapter, the size of the chimney or vent, serving a single appliance, except engineered systems, shall have a minimum area equal to the area of the appliance connection.
803.10.3 Connection
The connector shall extend to the inner face of the chimney or vent liner, but not beyond.
Thank you everyone for all the help. I'm certainly sure that extending into the flue is not the best idea, but what if my pipe was a little short and ended inside the thimble?
I ask that because in my searching I found the following item but I'm not sure it's long enough to make it to the end of the thimble.
I ask that because in my searching I found the following item but I'm not sure it's long enough to make it to the end of the thimble.
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VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
This looks like an adapter with a painted trim that hides the thimble. The stainless potion would appear to slip into the thimble far enough as the decorative trim would move flush to the wall- this horizontal stainless pipe is what would be sealed to the thimble. You would then connect the connector pipe to this adapter as if it were just another piece of pipe- provided the adapter/connector are from the same manufacturer.
For the photo you included depicting your installation, it appears that your thimble extends, UNSUPPORTED, into your room about 4 to 6 inches. I would make sure the proposed adapter or pipe is inserted 6 to 8 inches so that the masonry is supporting the connector rather than the clay thimble itself.
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Good stove choice (HT2000 I believe?). If that's what it is, No inline pipe damper required. Excellent air control is built in. You can have a nice flame show for those who want to see it. Also capable of being turned way down for long burns. Let us know how it works when you get the thing hooked up!
Your right. That's the one. I did some searching online, it had great reviews, a good size box, and I found it for way less then I expected with free shipping, could not say no.
I thought the flashing would look a little silly that far from the wall.. But I can't really find anything that would fit and go to double wall pipe.
Every manufacturer of double wall should have a masonry adapter. It doesnt really have to extend flush with the liner but should extend past the point where the thimble enters the chimney structure.
Riddlefiddle
Member
It was not my intent to give bad advice to anyone. I only stated what I had done with my set up. As with any info you can take it or leave it. When I went to code office to get building permit they gave me a diagram which showed the stove pipe going through clay thimble which is cemented into the wall. I lost the diagram so on Monday I will go to code office and get another. It looked to be an older diagram so maybe old code. Not to many new masonry chimneys being built around here anymore. More mostly prefab. It could have been me misreading drawing as well. If its wrong then its as simple as pulling stove pipe out of thimble and only inserting it in a couple of inches and reconnecting stove pipe. The chimney has good draft as it is now and stove runs well. Sorry if I have upset anyone. It was not my intention.
VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
Yeah I could. That's a great idea. Then it'll solve all my issues. I wasn't sure if they should be cut or not
VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
I do not know of any reason why it cannot be cut. The thimble should be the same material as the verticle liner, but maybe you should check with the manufacture. If you can, use a saw or blade and NOT a hammer.
On some job sights, I have seen masons use a hammer to make a hole in the liner for the inlet. Imo, a hammer must negatively affect the integrity of the clay to some degree.
Yeah. I'll reach out to the mason who did the install. He's a neighbor that's why we went with the clay vice the new stuff, plus I was feeling a bit nostalgic and wanted something traditional
simple.serf
Feeling the Heat
Riddle, Just as a side note, every encounter with an AHJ in nys that I have had has always turned into a cluster.
Example 1; health dept inspector not approving a sewage pump because he didn't like the electrical installation. Electrical installation was done by a qualified electrician to NEC that nys was using at the time. Health inspector had his preferred plumber redo electrical. Pump station has electrical fire and sewage backup into the house. AHJ will not issue permit for work to be done per code, only per inspector.
Example 2; Friend has off grid house built by local Amish. Inspector refuses to issue certificate of occupancy due to lack of hard wired smoke detectors. Inspector states He would give Amish c of o but not English. County govt refuses to remove inspector.
Different inspectors in different towns.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Your inspection was done and you passed. After the inspector leaves is when you go and do it right. I'd cut the 2" off that extend into the liner. Leaving it will make it more difficult to clean imo.
Sorry to get off topic.
Example 1; health dept inspector not approving a sewage pump because he didn't like the electrical installation. Electrical installation was done by a qualified electrician to NEC that nys was using at the time. Health inspector had his preferred plumber redo electrical. Pump station has electrical fire and sewage backup into the house. AHJ will not issue permit for work to be done per code, only per inspector.
Example 2; Friend has off grid house built by local Amish. Inspector refuses to issue certificate of occupancy due to lack of hard wired smoke detectors. Inspector states He would give Amish c of o but not English. County govt refuses to remove inspector.
Different inspectors in different towns.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Your inspection was done and you passed. After the inspector leaves is when you go and do it right. I'd cut the 2" off that extend into the liner. Leaving it will make it more difficult to clean imo.
Sorry to get off topic.
No you want it to line the entire clay thimble just not extend past it. If they showed you a code diagram saing it should extend 2" inside the flue i dont know where they got it that has never been code. And to be clear i am not bother by you saying it i am bothered by the code officer saying it if they infact did.
Riddlefiddle
Member
I hear ya. I took stove pipe apart And found out that pipe going thru clay thimble is actually only an inch past the lip. Its still not flush, but not the 2 inches I has stated yesterday. It was back in August when chimney was erected. I guess I exaggerated a bit.
Riddlefiddle
Member
The code enforcer didn't know that it was not flush. He made sure chimney was built right, made sure wall thimble was correct and made sure stove clearances where correct. He did his job. The diagram I was going off of didn't say anything about pipe not extending past thimble. I did that. Lesson learned. All was done correctly except that part.
Riddlefiddle
Member
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