Stove Installation Prices--Sticker Shock?

[TruePatriot]

Hey all,

Saturday the g.f. and I went to one of the few stove dlrs. in our area, none of whom keep more than a handful of stoves in stock, it seems. I didn't count, but there were approx. 6+ freestanding woodstoves, with the usual compliment of inserts, gas jobs, etc.... Unlike most area dlrs, they not only had a Quad 4300 only in stock, but on display--of course, it was not hooked up to burn, nor did they even have the Quad 5700 in stock. (The closest one is 45 min. away, but they need to dig it out of the warehouse first and uncrate/assemble.) When I think that there are dlrs. like MountainStoveGuy with 500 stoves in stock (did I get that right?) it doesn't spawn charitable thoughts about the community I live in and the values of its inhabitants. Glad I wasn't born here....

We sat down with the sales rep. and he outlined their installation costs. They were so high, (IMO) that at first I didn't even understand that he was quoting me labor only--the "reline kit" would be in addition to the following:

Normal, 1/2-day installation: $850.00 (plus cost of full "reline kit")

Full-day installation: $1,400.00 (plus cost of full "reline kit")

I should explain that we need the chimney over our fireplace penetrated, and a "T" installed, with all of the attendant masonry work that that entails. (The fireplace lintel is too low for the size stove we need to possibly accept a flue under it, nor a big insert). I understand this is a PITA job, and I am prepared to pay for it.

But $1,400.00? It wasn't like he gave me a price for hacking the chimney, plus the 1/2-day rate. It just went, automatically, to a full-day job price, once he learned we needed the chimney cut. Is this normal?

So...$1,400. (plus tax) PLUS:

Reline kit: $565.00 (figuring a 35' chimney, ostensibly)
2' of "Duratech" to go through the thimble: $100.00
Thimble collar: $25.00
Singlewall up to the Duratech, with elbow: minimal $.
We didn't price hearthpads.

THEN he tells me: "You're gonna be left with some masonry work, after we break through and connect the T, before you can actually fire up. We won't put the chimney or wall back together."

I dunno...but almost $200/hr, for all day?

I questioned him, and he said:

"Well...ya gotta figure, two guys, a truck and GAS...it all adds up."

He's approx. 4 miles from our home. Maybe 6, tops.

Maybe you all will tell me that his labor is in line, and I'll shutup, but his mention of gasoline (all of what, $3.00, @ 12 mpg?) as one of the reasons for a $1,400.00 labor charge seemed like a lame attempt to justify the labor figure.

At this point, I think I would feel better getting a real mason in to bust into the chimney, and terracotta tile, and button it all up again, than I would these guys.

Can anyone inform me if most wood stove retailers tackle such masonry work themselves, or do they sub it out to a professional?

Can anyone ballpark a price (just) for cutting into a straight, modern, brick, two-flue chimney, with terra cotta liner, and sealing it up again?

I'm thinking I should hire a mason for the stonework, but if I arrange it myself (as these guys don't seem to know any masons) I'm concerned that the installers will say the hole cut by the mason isn't big enough, and they won't be able to connect the "T." Plus, it would mean the mason would have to come back a second day, to close it up (leaving me with the sheetrock work, where the hole is cut) and I'm sure the mason must have a minimam "show up" charge, to come back to close it up.

Am I simply too cheap?

Suggestions?

P.S.: this dlr's stove prices did match another quote I got from an upstate dlr, for $3,014 for the Quad 5700. I find it helpful when people post prices, so I'll post this (downstate) dealer's pricing for the 5700, as we configured it. Comments on this too are welcome, but I guess since two dealers are within approx. $80. of each other, that the Quad prices are in line.

Stove body: 1,759.
Nickel door: 375. (black door 283.)
Pedestal: 238. (includes ashpan)
Blower: 264.
Tax: 175. (ours will be 2% higher)
Stove total: $3,094.00

So...
3,094. Stove, complete
1,400. Labor
815. Reline kit (I added $100. for an upgraded, hinged cap)
* Labor to repair/seal up chimney, by a real mason?
_____
5,309.00**
*Not sure how much to add for the mason to seal up the chimney--suspect it would be cheaper to get the mason to do all the stonework, for one price.
**We have not shopped hearthpads yet, so that will be added on.

I guess I'm about to find out how "Scottish" I really am. Thanks.

 

[jqgs214]

kindfa what i paid for mine. my install was a little tricky though.

 

[wg_bent]

I think his remark about gas is a standard answer. I understand what you mean, but labor for working on a car is running 85 bucks/hour. Surveyors I had here charged 40 bucks for one guy, 52 for the other, and the owner charged me 200/hour for his time (granted it was 1/2 hour of office time, so not too bad overall) 100/hour for labor/person does seem a bit high, but 1400 to do chimney cutting doesn't seem bad. I would expect that it's fully buttoned up for that price though.

About 8 years ago I had a guy build a 100% brick front steps 4 steps high for 1600, so if you find the right mason, I think you can get the price down. Also, installing stove pipe is not rocket science. Do some homework and learn how it's done, and do that part of the install yourself.

All that said, I know one of the local stove dealers routinely quotes off the cuff for install as about 2k, or roughly double stove price. (not accurate if purchasing a VC Aspen though)

 

[elkimmeg]

Here is what I would do I might try ro do most of the work outside the back side of the chimney Bring the liner down to a tee cut the back side and only cut the front facing enough for the thiomble this keeps most of the mess outside then a tee is useless without means for cleanout access So the space I worked on I would incorperate a cleanout door.

Most decent masons should be able to handle the task. Infact install the liner and button it up in one day At that point all that would be left is to install the stove and the connector pipe
Btw galvanized thimble ans Ace hardware less than $10

The killer part of the deal is the 35' height even a 40' ladder would be fully extended and some one working near the top rung. Personally i would be tempted to setting up pipe staging and braces the cost of setup and breakdown easilly $250 we are talking 7 frames high Your job is definitely a 2 man job just for the chimney work and liner.

I must be doing something wrong. I have not charged 1400 labor for a worker and my self a day ever and that includes running a backhoe and dumptruck

I guess I must be in the wrong business.

 

[Xena]

Can't offer an opinion on that quote,
but I'd suggest getting a quote or two
from some of the other stove shops nearby
since you did say there are a few.
Also may want to add your location to
either your profile or this thread.
Sometimes prices can vary depending on location.

 

[webbie]

Not too far out of line - busting into a chimney is a real PITA. Our store (in a high wage area - philadelphia metro) charges about $550 for a 1/2 day and about a grand for a full day job - but that usually does not include masonry. If you go about it the back way.
$85- 100 an hour for the top man, tools and truck
$35-50 for the 2nd man
Plus expenses and extra profit....sometimes the installer are sub....

It does add up.

Certainly this is sticker shock as when I first started (1979) stoves were $350 to $600 and installs were $150-300 - but relining did not exist, etc.

You gotta be rich to buy a stove these days!

I know a lot of people who sweep chimneys and install stoves - and none of them live in Mansions! Even the ones who own their own business. In todays world, they have to send their kids to college, pay for health care and do all the same stuff that we all do.

Come to think of it, he should have used Health Care and Insurance as the excuse instead of gasoline.

 

[reaperman]

You could always stroll through some new home construction areas, and talk directly with some HVAC installers and see if they are looking for some weekend scab work. This way, you are talking directly to the guys who actually do the installs, not the "boss-man" who is charging $200/hr. I see this quite frequently in my area. Its a win-win, situation for both parties if a deal is struck. After-all, the installer is used to getting paid much less than, shop labor, rate. And cash is always welcome. And chances are, if the person who you are talking to, isnt familiar with chimney work, chances are he knows somebody who is.

 

[webbie]

Wow, normal everyday steel stoves selling for over 3 grand!

Inflation and the run-up in steel and other commodity prices.......in the far back days of 1998 when I sold my shop, the largest Avalon with the blower and brass door could be had for about $1500.

I think I should go back in the "physical" stove biz....well, on second thought, it's easier to sling code than to hustle stoves. My back is worse than ever from 20+ years of moving those things!

How much does plate steel sell for these days? A quick google looks like about $800 per ton in the US (not sure if this is metric ton or regular).

That means about .40 a lb, which is not too bad.....so a stove with 300 lbs of steel (plus brick, cast and glass) would be $120. in this metal alone. Let's see - Cories stove company....
$120 steel
$50 cast (door and legs)
$50 glass
$30 brick, etc. etc
---------
$250 materials......
then Corie will build the thing for $200 more in labor, boxing, etc

$450 total.....
then he will sell it to Dealers for $1000, and they will sell it for $1800......oh, the blower would have to be extra!

And he will make a measley 5,000 stoves per year, for a profit of (5000x550) or 2,750,000

That leaves some room for testing, marketing, and other stuff. So it still may be possible to have a "small" stove manufacturer.
Come to think of it, I think cast stoves would be easier to make......you can sub em out.

Heck, if nothing else it shows what a good deal those end of year Englanders and Centurys are!

 

[Gunner]

Ya, and everyone here thought the PE's were big bucks. JFK just got a non-enameled summit with pedistal, gold door and blower for about a grand less.

 

[jjbaer]

Hey all,

So...
3,094. Stove, complete
1,400. Labor
815. Reline kit (I added $100. for an upgraded, hinged cap)
* Labor to repair/seal up chimney, by a real mason?
_____
5,309.00**
*Not sure how much to add for the mason to seal up the chimney--suspect it would be cheaper to get the mason to do all the stonework, for one price.
**We have not shopped hearthpads yet, so that will be added on.

I guess I'm about to find out how "Scottish" I really am. Thanks.

TP,

Not uncommon to add big $ if ANY chimney work needs to be done.....I was quoted about $1400 for an insulated liner & top cap (got it myself for $700) and was quoted another $600 for the delivery and install which did not involve chimney work except for cutting away part of the damper to let the liner pass through. I saved a total of $1300 by getting my own liner and installing it myself. My costs were $2850 ($2154 for Jotul C450 and $700 for the liner kit/insulation) and that's doing it myself. However, I did install a 2-piece block-off plate (I used high temp caulked and screwed into the cast iron damper area) and the $600 install they quoted me doesn't include a block-off plate....that would have cost more.....they don't like to do them because they're a PITA so I did it all myself and it is a PITA...... That said, my house is 1-story and only has an 18 ft chimney and it was very safe up there for me to do this....if your chimney is 35 ft I'd think long and hard about that and then quickly decide to let a pro do it.......not worth risking your life over..... my neighbor has a 35 foot chimney and I don't think I'd want to be up there without a scaffold or a hydraulic lift.......

 

[Eric Johnson]

I think if you were so inclined, you could do it yourself. It would take more time (a summer project) and you'd have to do some things more than once, but when you're done, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing how it was done and (hopefully) that it was done right. Spend some of what you would lay out for labor on the right tools, and then spend some time learning about the process here on hearth.com. Then you can bore all your friends and relatives with the details. Some of these hearthies will go out of their way to help another member if they're close enough. Corie, elk and Hogwildz come to mind.

I usually target my daughter's boyfriends when I want to "share." They can't afford to risk pissing me off, so they act like they're interested.

 

[Corie]

If you need help with the installation and want to do it yourself, don't hesitate to contact me. Not sure we're you're located, but like Eric said, I'm always available to help anyone install a stove in a safe, legal fashion.

 

[Hogwildz]

If you need help with the installation and want to do it yourself, don't hesitate to contact me. Not sure we're you're located, but like Eric said, I'm always available to help anyone install a stove in a safe, legal fashion.

Well I guess that means me too........ since I have the ladder and all the tools LMAO.
Oh, well Corie does now have a hammer drill & a non working screw gun LOL.

 

[begreen]

I can see where this is going. 20 pages of comparative analysis of mortar qualities, brick densities, ladder strengths, etc. A month later and still no installation.

TP, go and visit some more dealers and get some more quotes. Get the names and numbers of a few reliable masons or chimney sweeps and find who they like to work with, then call them too. We can talk this to death, but really it's going to come down to the qualified people in your specific area. FWIW, our installation came in at about 1/2 the price by shopping around a little.
The complete, 2 story installation from scratch, including hearthpad and stove came to $3700. And check out Summit and Napoleon prices as well.

 

[Codeman812]

This new guy here would be interested in helping, don't have much knowledge. I do have the ability to learn and do physical labor. I do have a cordless drill that works

 

[Corie]

The more parties we can get involved, the better.


I'm wondering where the OP is from though?

 

[elkimmeg]

I suggest you go to the local inspections dept and ask about masons. then find the local masonry supplier go there and ask about masons If the list has ciommon names start there first.
If you decide to go that route then it might be a good idea to have them install your liner At which point it can be purchased on line, cheaper than the quotes you posted.
You now have reduced the job down to a point where it could be manageable for you to make the final installation all that is left is the connector pipe and stove essembly.
Which ever PE model you choose,,

Corie a word to the wise: Using a 40 plus lb chipping hammer off a ladder is not the best idea. Me I would setup pipe staging and a wide platform you will find a masonry blade skillsaw also quite helpfull and a hammer drill wit long masonry bit. The trick will be getting the bricks back in and installing the ash cleanout door. Not really a job for a first time experience.

 

[begreen]

I think the house is in lower NY state according to this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6812/

 

[Corie]

That sounds local to myself, warren and any other hudson valley, pike county PA folk.



Let's set a date and save you some green.




Oh and elk don't worry. Hogz will be doing anything that resembles work. I'm merely there for moral support and visual stimulation.

 

[webbie]

You'll get the job done in no time as long as TP is not allowed to talk
(that's a funny, based on his 20,000+ word mega-post) :coolsmirk:

 

[BrotherBart]

You'll get the job done in no time as long as TP is not allowed to talk
(that's a funny, based on his 20,000+ word mega-post) :coolsmirk:

Corie and Rob have to still be young enough to climb ladders when the stove is finally purchased. %-P

 

[webbie]

Sorry, TP - we're laughing WITH YOU (or at least with your old man) and not AT YOU. We have tremendous respect for lawyers (yes, my daughter is one!)

House does not look too tall from the photos - surely should be easier than the N. Philly Job.....

And, hey, I have a new way of FORCING retailers to sign up for Hearth.com dealer section - if they don't, the Hearth.com forum members are gonna start doing FREE INSTALLS all over the country! That'll get 'em.

 

[webbie]

You'll get the job done in no time as long as TP is not allowed to talk
(that's a funny, based on his 20,000+ word mega-post) :coolsmirk:

Corie and Rob have to still be young enough to climb ladders when the stove is finally purchased. %-P

BB, based on your earlier Life Remaining calculations, we'll be able to use the "BB Memorial Fund" to fund this job. Did you remember to put hearth.com and corie on the life insurance?

( I imagine no one other than the two of us has any idea what I am talking about)

 

[BrotherBart]

You'll get the job done in no time as long as TP is not allowed to talk
(that's a funny, based on his 20,000+ word mega-post) :coolsmirk:

Corie and Rob have to still be young enough to climb ladders when the stove is finally purchased. %-P

BB, based on your earlier Life Remaining calculations, we'll be able to use the "BB Memorial Fund" to fund this job. Did you remember to put hearth.com and corie on the life insurance?

( I imagine no one other than the two of us has any idea what I am talking about)

The way this last year has gone I am afraid I am gonna have to move the date up a bit. I am thinking about leaving my modest savings to hearth.com in exchange for having my viewing in the burn area wherever HPBA is that year. Maybe a nice stainless BBQ wagon for a coffin. Or talk to da guys at England's about welding something appropriate up for me. By then they will probably be more than happy to make something to put me in that has a steel lid on it. That locks. :coolhmm:

Last day of the show toss in some kindling, close the lid, open the draft and let'er rip.

"Here lies BB. Woodburner to the very end. Well seasoned."

 

[Corie]

hahahahahahaha


you're a friggin riot BB.


Looking forward to meeting for lunch more and more.



Think we could get some secondary burn off that coffin? Or do you want me to set up a catalytic combustor?