Storage Tank Insulation

[ManiacPD]

I've read a ton of info on here about insulating storage tanks. I am ready to do mine and need some final advice.

I plan to build a box around it and insulate the box with sheets of polyiso. Since this is a round tank in a rectangular box am I going to lose a lot of heat if I don't fill in the corners? I see some of you are using cellulose to do this but it is in a separate garage bay and we have had mice out there so I'm hesitant to add the cellulose.

Also, I welded box tubing under the legs of the tank to get it off the ground and be able to drain it if necessary. Is it necessary to put something between the tubing (legs) and the concrete floor to insulate the tank? Not sure how much that will conduct into the slab but just wanted some input.

Thanks!

 

[stee6043]

I ended up using 11 rolls of R30 fiberglass insulation to insulate my box. My box was jammed quite tightly with insulation. I did go underneath the bottom tank.

Fortunately for me my tanks are in my basement so I was not overly concerned with a little bit of heat loss from the imperfections of my box since all of the heat lost goes to my house. You have a different situation. I'd go deep...very deep...everywhere. Don't skimp on the corners or underneath it.

 

[ManiacPD]

I ended up using 11 rolls of R30 fiberglass insulation to insulate my box. My box was jammed quite tightly with insulation. I did go underneath the bottom tank.

Fortunately for me my tanks are in my basement so I was not overly concerned with a little bit of heat loss from the imperfections of my box since all of the heat lost goes to my house. You have a different situation. I'd go deep...very deep...everywhere. Don't skimp on the corners or underneath it.

Unfaced I assume?

 

[stee6043]

I ended up using 11 rolls of R30 fiberglass insulation to insulate my box. My box was jammed quite tightly with insulation. I did go underneath the bottom tank.

Fortunately for me my tanks are in my basement so I was not overly concerned with a little bit of heat loss from the imperfections of my box since all of the heat lost goes to my house. You have a different situation. I'd go deep...very deep...everywhere. Don't skimp on the corners or underneath it.

Unfaced I assume?

Definitely unfaced. Much cheaper and much easier to force into odd corners, shapes, etc.

 

[ManiacPD]

Now you said you stuffed it tightly. Wouldn't you want to layer it in there to get some fluff to it? Pardon my ignorance please!

 

[stee6043]

Here are some photos of what I did. First I wrapped the tanks with the insulation. You can see that in the first photo. As I enclosed the tanks with OSB I also shoved more insulation to fill all of the gaps between the boards and the insulation I put around the tanks. So it's almost 100% full by volume. Far from perfect but it works for me...and it's a lot cheaper than spray foam.

 

[pybyr]

Good celluose insulation should be treated with borates or a similar compound that serves the dual role of fire retardant and vermin repellent- and, despite what you might think based on how irritating fiberglass is to human skin, rodents seem astonishingly fond of it.

I've learned the hard way after seeing formerly-fiberglass insulated wall bays in my old farmhouse stripped bare of the fiberglass insulation that someone put in parts of it during the 1960s (rodents are not only not irritated by fiberglass- they seem to like to carry it off to other places for nesting use) (all that I found left behind was the fiberglass's backing paper with a few pink fibers here and there to confirm what it had been) - and have found no sign of rodent activity in the other areas that I've more recently insulated with dense-pack cellulose.

 

[Reggie Dunlap]

Why not spray foam it? Six inches of closed cell urethane would do it. No nasty fiberglass and no mice. The price difference shouldn't be too much.

 

[sdrobertson]

I have my boiler and storage located in a pole building. I used dense packed cellous and I have had no rodent problems. I researched insulation for quite a while and wanted to go with sprayed but didn't because of the expense. The cellous was allot cheaper and I put in a minimum of 14 inches on the sides with approximately 4 ft above my tanks. I run my storage at 190-195 degrees and the roof above the storage doesn't loose the frost on it so I figure it's holding the heat pretty well.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Here are some photos of what I did. First I wrapped the tanks with the insulation. You can see that in the first photo. As I enclosed the tanks with OSB I also shoved more insulation to fill all of the gaps between the boards and the insulation I put around the tanks. So it's almost 100% full by volume. Far from perfect but it works for me...and it's a lot cheaper than spray foam.

Is there an advantage to using 2 500s instead of 1 1000? Or was it just getting them in there and being able to stack them?

How does 1000 gallons of pressurized work with the 40? Seem about the right size?

 

[stee6043]

Here are some photos of what I did. First I wrapped the tanks with the insulation. You can see that in the first photo. As I enclosed the tanks with OSB I also shoved more insulation to fill all of the gaps between the boards and the insulation I put around the tanks. So it's almost 100% full by volume. Far from perfect but it works for me...and it's a lot cheaper than spray foam.

Is there an advantage to using 2 500s instead of 1 1000? Or was it just getting them in there and being able to stack them?

How does 1000 gallons of pressurized work with the 40? Seem about the right size?

Off topic...but 2 500's eats up much less floor space. That was my only reason. The 40 does fine with this amount of storage. I half wish I had a 60 so I could really max the tanks out with 2 full loads of wood. I usually tend to want 2.5 loads in the 40 to get the storage back up to temp in the dead of winter...

 

[ManiacPD]

I don't really want to use spray foam because I'm only putting in one 250 gallon tank at the moment. I plan to add a second 250 gallon tank on top for 500 gallons of storage and I think the spray foam would be hard to remove when I did this. Let me know if this this is not the case. I think cellulose or fiberglass could be cleaned up easily and wouldn't stick to the tank.

stee, I'm curious to know how you pipe two tanks that are stacked?

Thanks

 

[stee6043]

I plumbed my tanks in series (hot in the top of the upper tank, cold out the bottom of the bottom tank) with a manifold that allows me to completely bypass the tanks if I want to. Pretty simple now that I look at it but it took me some thinking on the front end...

And for anyone looking - in this photo the Taco pumps are in the wrong orientation!

 

[ManiacPD]

I plumbed my tanks in series (hot in the top of the upper tank, cold out the bottom of the bottom tank) with a manifold that allows me to completely bypass the tanks if I want to. Pretty simple now that I look at it but it took me some thinking on the front end...

And for anyone looking - in this photo the Taco pumps are in the wrong orientation!

That's a great picture. Thanks, now I understand how this is going to work.

I see you used warehouse racking to hold the tanks. Great idea. We've got some extra parts for that same type kicking around here at work so I can probably use the same thing.

One last question (for now): When you wrapped the strips of insulation around the tank did you stick them to the tank in any way? How did you keep them on the tank or hook the ends together?

Thanks again,

Paul

 

[stee6043]

Thanks, Maniac. I didn't use anything to stick the insulation in place. Once you start rolling and stuffing the insulation won't go anywhere. Particularly with the piping coming off the top of both tanks. The pipes, valves, etc tend to hold things in place pretty well....

 

[heaterman]

Here are some photos of what I did. First I wrapped the tanks with the insulation. You can see that in the first photo. As I enclosed the tanks with OSB I also shoved more insulation to fill all of the gaps between the boards and the insulation I put around the tanks. So it's almost 100% full by volume. Far from perfect but it works for me...and it's a lot cheaper than spray foam.

Is there an advantage to using 2 500s instead of 1 1000? Or was it just getting them in there and being able to stack them?

How does 1000 gallons of pressurized work with the 40? Seem about the right size?

Off topic...but 2 500's eats up much less floor space. That was my only reason. The 40 does fine with this amount of storage. I half wish I had a 60 so I could really max the tanks out with 2 full loads of wood. I usually tend to want 2.5 loads in the 40 to get the storage back up to temp in the dead of winter...

Ahhhhh yes! A clear example of sizing the boiler firing rate/capacity to the storage rather than the load. It's the enlightened path to hydronic nirvana.

 

[stee6043]

Here are some photos of what I did. First I wrapped the tanks with the insulation. You can see that in the first photo. As I enclosed the tanks with OSB I also shoved more insulation to fill all of the gaps between the boards and the insulation I put around the tanks. So it's almost 100% full by volume. Far from perfect but it works for me...and it's a lot cheaper than spray foam.

Is there an advantage to using 2 500s instead of 1 1000? Or was it just getting them in there and being able to stack them?

How does 1000 gallons of pressurized work with the 40? Seem about the right size?

Off topic...but 2 500's eats up much less floor space. That was my only reason. The 40 does fine with this amount of storage. I half wish I had a 60 so I could really max the tanks out with 2 full loads of wood. I usually tend to want 2.5 loads in the 40 to get the storage back up to temp in the dead of winter...

Ahhhhh yes! A clear example of sizing the boiler firing rate/capacity to the storage rather than the load. It's the enlightened path to hydronic nirvana.

No doubt....it's more of a convenience thing for me. The 40 is great. What I would gain from the EKO 60 would have been avoiding the "one last half-fill of the firebox" before I go to bed at night. No doubt the 60 would not reduce my wood consumption nor would it technically improve my system in any way. I'm just lazy....ha.

I guess it also depends on what your heat loads are while you're charging storage. If my loads were less I'd be able to charge the tanks with 2 full loads instead of 2.5. I'm heating 3200 square feet...a smaller heat load with 1,000 gallons of storage may be PERFECT for the EKO 40...and my last thought of the day - in-floor radiant may well put me into Nirvana with the EKO 40. Currently I struggle to heat my house with anything less than 140 degree water in storage. So when I get home from work my tanks are usually just starting to flirt with 140. On really cold days (below zero) it may have already dropped below 140. In these cases the first two hours of my burn usually only heat the house, and hardly any goes to storage. If I can effectively heat my home through in-floor with water temps closer to 120 I may be in great shape even after I get home from work and my storage is in the 140 ball park, or below. So there you have it - my project for Fall 2009. Tare down the ceilings in the basement and install some PEX!