Still issues with wood stove

[04HemiRam2500]

Also guys I think if I do all mentioned I will be fine here is why. I left all day and temp was a high of 36 when left left furnace thermostat off and got home new edition was 51 since my first post new edition is 68 and where new edition connects to old part of the house it is 63 so I am losing 5 degrees in 6 horizontal feet because of the stairway to the garage opening. Hence, I think this is a problem no? so that opening is making me lose alot of heat 5 degrees in five to six horizontal feet because that is how wide the stairway opening is.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Hey grisu even when I got a hot fire going 650 degrees and 450 on flue when I close the air control half way it will use the tubes for a little while an hour then stop and stove gets colder and colder by minute. Do I need to move the air inlet slowly closed it little by little? How do you know. Also, If I need the heat wont I need to leave it open? I do not mean to be stupid here I just really don't know. I do appreciate everyone on the forum for all advice and help. You guys helped me select this stove and I believe it will heat my whole house because even if t is 70 or 71 in my house I am still satisfied.

 

[Grisu]

When you close the air only half do you then still have a lot of flames at the wood? Is there still a fire burning when the secondaries go out? How full do you load the box with what kind of wood? (P.S. Did you take a look at the thread I was linking to earlier?)

 

[Holiday]

If the air needs to be kept at half for everything to keep going the wood is still too wet. Otherwise you should be able to reduce the air another step after the fire recovers. Down to at least 80% closed.

 

[Charles1981]

I can't really comment on the burning techniques for the NC30 or burn tube models. But based on Holiday and Grisu's comments and what I know in general about this stove or any stove leaving the primary air open all the way is never recommended due to over fire conditions.

If you have the air open all the way just to meet adequate heating requirements it means wet wood or over firing a big house with a small stove. And since your secondaries go out if you close your stove down it would seem a problem with the wood or draft.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

You either need a bigger stove or a tighter house.Im heating a poorly insulated 3000 Sf house with a harman TL-300 Just fine . But i can tell you from experience the NC-30 would never handle that job.Not at my place anyway. I know cuz i have 2 of em.(NC-30s)In other locations. As fine a stove that it is, i just cant get as much wood in the 30 as i can in the harman and the harman is a different design, a top loader, much taller and seems to throw more heat at all air settings for a longer period of time.

 

[begreen]

Lastly, I know this is rated for 2200 square feet and my house is just under 3000 2950 but I have seen stoves with the same size fire box be rated for 3000 so I think my expectations are okay I just need to fix a few things to my house and maybe even put a through the wall fan to help move heat to the other side.

Houses vary enormously. With a properly constructed 3000 sq ft house that has good sealing and an excellent thermal break from the exterior walls, one could easily heat it with the 30 NC, especially if it was in WA state. There are so many variables involved, but for sure when dealing with older structures that did not consider air infiltration, insulation and thermal breaks, the challenge is much greater.

It sounds like an energy audit would pay for itself here. I would consider this investment.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I just do not get the secondary stuff so when I get the fire going and the stove at like 650 should I close the inlet all the way and when I do I get alot of secondaries and no fire on the wood but it last an hour then nothing is happening? So what should I do then.

Also, what if I put a flue damper on the flue and close it a little will this help keep heat from going up the flue or is it a bad idea with these epa stoves.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I just do not get the secondary stuff so when I get the fire going and the stove at like 650 should I close the inlet all the way and when I do I get alot of secondaries and no fire on the wood but it last an hour then nothing is happening? So what should I do then.
Also, what if I put a flue damper on the flue and close it a little will this help keep heat from going up the flue or is it a bad idea with these epa stoves.

The only way you need a damper is in an overdraft condition ,not common.You may not have enough draft,a damper would make it worse. Go by the stove top temp as to what to do with the air setting . sometimes lowering the air setting makes the stove top temp go up,depends on what stage of the burn you are in. Dont gauge performance by ,no flames on the wood. If your stove top is 650 ,thats about all the heat yur gonna get. If your going to keep this stove you will need to reduce your heating demand somehow. My 30 cruises mostly in the 500-550 range. Only 650 briefly ,not sustained.

 

[Grisu]

I just do not get the secondary stuff so when I get the fire going and the stove at like 650 should I close the inlet all the way and when I do I get alot of secondaries and no fire on the wood but it last an hour then nothing is happening? So what should I do then.

What you should see with the air all the way closed is a glowing coal bed in the bottom of the firebox, above that black splits with maybe some lazy flames here and there and in the top more or less "roaring" secondaries. If those go out after an hour but your wood is still there it suggests your wood is not dry enough. Have you tested it with a moisture meter?

Also, what if I put a flue damper on the flue and close it a little will this help keep heat from going up the flue or is it a bad idea with these epa stoves.

That would only be an option when you have too much draft. That would show as uncontrollable fires meaning even with the air closed the secondaries get stronger and stronger and the temp of the stove keeps climbing. It sounds like you have the exact opposite.

 

[begreen]

I just do not get the secondary stuff so when I get the fire going and the stove at like 650 should I close the inlet all the way and when I do I get alot of secondaries and no fire on the wood but it last an hour then nothing is happening? So what should I do then.

Nothing, the fire is going into the coaling stage which will last for hours.
Also, what if I put a flue damper on the flue and close it a little will this help keep heat from going up the flue or is it a bad idea with these epa stoves.

No, there is no indication this is necessary.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

The other thing is that while I was using the dry wood I tried to get it up to temp and then turn it down to the secondaries well it got a little over fired the flue temp went past the safe zone and the stove was reading 775. I want to ask if there could be any damage to what happen. I tried to cool it down as fast as possible but will this hurt the stove or baffle or anything else?

 

[Grisu]

Overfire for most stoves starts at 800 F and may be even more for a solid steel stove like the NC-30. You may have been close but I would not expect any permanent damage. Those "temp zones" on the thermometers can be misleading. As for the flue: What was the actual flue temp and how does that compare to the manufacturer's safe operating temps?

Try to close the air sooner/a bit faster the next time. Don't wait until you reach 500 F or so. When I have a good coal bed and the flue has been warm from a start-up fire I start closing the air down in the 350 F to 400 F range and it can be fully closed as soon as 450 F. The temp will still continue to climb and I monitor it to make sure it does not go over 750 F at peak. Btw. I look pretty much only at the fire and not the temps when closing down the air.

 

[BrotherBart]

Overfire for most stoves starts at 800 F and may be even more for a solid steel stove like the NC-30.

Horseshit. 800 is over firing every day of the week in any stove. Speak only of what you know. Some of your posts are gonna start disappearing.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Is there anything I should look for since I let it get too hot could I break something or ruin the stove in any way. This might be a really dumb question I just do not know.

 

[Charles1981]

I think you have a little bit of leeway. I've over fired my cast iron stove twice now. It isn't fun to worry about my combuster chamber melting. (Search for vermont casting encore overfire) and half the pics are melted and warped fire backs.

That being said I think it unlikely a single event short duration over fire would do much damage but it is possible (cracks in steel, break down of gaskets and cement. You would notice a big change in the stove's operation. Most with cracks or leaks in their stove however would first notice runaway stoves (because too much air was coming into the stove - a similar situation to what occurs if you forget to close your stove down and led to the overfire in the first place) but no ability to stop the fast extreme burn. Those with catalysts could experience either a runaway if there were leaks, or that the catalyst isn't working appropriately anymore or not firing.

Just be mindful and not let it happen again. Likely no damage, but tough to say for sure. Your problem however is regarding getting an adequate fire going but it dying out but again I can't really work with you on a secondary burn tube stove. To me if you close down the stove and the secondary tubes die off in an hour and the stove temperature drops remarkable it means you have wet wood that won't burn well without a good bit of oxygen. The goal with EPA stoves catalyst or not is to be as conservative as possible with air in order to initiate a secondary burning of the gasses wood releases at the lowest possible air intake possible for efficiency sake. And most people can run their stove normally completely close or at least MOSTLY closed. IT sounds like you start to close the stove down at all and temperature plummets which isn't normal.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

So what should I look for then check welds baffle, etc? What in particular again it got to 775 and the flue got to I do not even think 600 I believe 575 but it was close and I was hurrying to get it cool.

Also, how hot should this be ran no more than?

 

[Charles1981]

Not sure how to help you on that one other than as close a visual inspection as possible. Again I think it unlikely your stove woes are due to over firing once.

Was you stove performance good before the over fire and now since then it is inadequate? If nothing has changed In stove operation before/after then I would be less worried about damage from a single over fire. Again i expect a crack in your stove to equate to an inability to shut the fire down and that is not your problem.

Your problem is you can get a fire going but if you shut the stove down it dies out. That doesn't sound like a stove with damage and leaks due to an over fire with subsequent cracking and seam failure.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Also, what temp is max for a wood stove like the 30?

 

[Grisu]

Since you did not go over 800 F there was no real overfire. When you want to know what to look for, here is a list from Englander what would be signs of an overfire:
http://www.englanderstoves.com/help/WoodStove/Overfiring.html I would also check the burn tubes for warping.
I would try to keep it under 750 F. That leaves you a bit of room for countermeasures if it keeps climbing above that.

Did that happen recently with the same wood you are usually using? It does not seem to fit with your description that after an hour the secondaries go out and the stove cools down. You may need to describe your burning process better if you want to have help in extending your burn times.

 

[Charles1981]

that is the perfect link above

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I do not mean to be crazy I just want to make sure that this will not cause damage to where it will not work and last me longer for many years because of my mistake or am I just over worried and this does happen?

 

[Charles1981]

Again check the link above inspect your stove thoroughly.

But mostly you have major other concerns regarding heating your house that need to be addressed.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Okay I am too tired of keeping this thing going every 3 hours. I am getting the furnace today from lowes. That has to heat my house better given bigger firebox, bigger blower, and a large eight inch outlet.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Also, what temp is max for a wood stove like the 30?

IIf you are running those kind of temps, 700+, and the stove is STILL not heating your space, than its not the stove thats deficient. It is too small a stove for the space and (home)heat loss rate.