State of the Wood Burning Industry

[bholler]

I agree. Man most of those improvements would be a manufacturing nightmare not to mention the quality control.

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Why is that? I am sure they would outsource the electronics and it would just be attaching a few sensors and a control box then hooking up a linkage to the air control. Not complicated at all. And as far as quality control goes there are pleny of electronic devices out there that have no quality control issues at all.

 

[Lcback]

Why is that? I am sure they would outsource the electronics and it would just be attaching a few sensors and a control box then hooking up a linkage to the air control. Not complicated at all. And as far as quality control goes there are pleny of electronic devices out there that have no quality control issues at all.

Do you see the current price of furnaces that have these options? It's all possible but not in the price range people will pay.

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[bholler]

Do you see the current price of furnaces that have these options? It's all possible but not in the price range people will pay.

Look at the quad that has this already yes it costs more but not that much more. Given some time the price will come down

 

[Lcback]

Look at the quad that has this already yes it costs more but not that much more. Given some time the price will come down

I haven't seen it. Is its electronics running off a single triple A and thermo induction fans?

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[Squirrely]

I'm all for technological advances. But I just don't see a reason to complicate a woodstove in such a way.

Spot on, webby.

It's satisfying to use a stove made of only simple robust cast iron parts and no finicky gadgets.

 

[bholler]

It's satisfying to use a stove made of only simple robust cast iron parts and no finicky gadgets.

You do realize plate steel stoves are much more durable than cast ones right? And you can make a big step up in efficiency that you would not have to modify without getting finicky gadgets.

But seriously I know smart stoves will not be for everyone just as cat stoves are not. But does that mean they should not be developed? If everyone refused to try new things because there are some complications where would we be?

 

[Lcback]

Spot on, webby.

It's satisfying to use a stove made of only simple robust cast iron parts and no finicky gadgets.

Yeah I went back and forth on furnaces to buy in my price range. I went with the only option I could find with reburn tubes and could run with no power.

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[Squirrely]

Because no country has ever managed to govern itself without an actual government.

I don't recall anyone referencing not having any government at all... only that the size of government is directly proportional to the failure of people to govern themselves.

 

[bholler]

I haven't seen it. Is its electronics running off a single triple A and thermo induction fans?

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Honestly I dont know how they run their electronics. But they seem to be getting good reviews and seem to be working well. But it is the first one I am sure as they develop things will change.

 

[bholler]

I don't recall anyone referencing not having any government at all... only that the size of government is directly proportional to the failure of people to govern themselves.

It is also directly proportional to quality of life and economic prosperity. Yes there are obviously issues from time to time but Go to a country with a large population and little to no emissions regulations and tell us if you want to go back to that or not.

 

[Squirrely]

You do realize plate steel stoves are much more durable than cast ones right?

Our last stove was also an all cast iron dual fuel and it was still in excellent condition when I sold it over 30 years later. But the point wasn't about material durability, but rather the lack of fussy expensive-to-replace parts.

 

[bholler]

Our last stove was also an all cast iron dual fuel and it was still in excellent condition when I sold it over 30 years later. But the point wasn't about material durability, but rather the lack of fussy expensive-to-replace parts.

have you ever used a good modern stove? And why are you so set on dual fuel you don't burn coal do you? You are giving up allot on the wood burning side to be able to burn coal.

 

[Lcback]

have you ever used a good modern stove? And why are you so set on dual fuel you don't burn coal do you? You are giving up allot on the wood burning side to be able to burn coal.

Not the person you replied to. But I know lots of people here in nowhere PA that burn coal. Another reason people like it. If they get a job that keeps them away from cutting wood or traveling, they can order a ton of coal today and it's actually ready to burn, and cheaper then oil.

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[jetsam]

I'm all for technological advances. But I just don't see a reason to complicate a woodstove in such a way.

I personally like the idea of a woodstove with a computerized thermostat that monitors stove temperature and room temperature. Set a target room temperature and go.

As long as the software is open source, I can make whatever changes and tweaks I need. (Though I wind up having to break in to most of my own electronics because lawyers, /grumble.)

I can see how it would be a worry for people that tend not to disassemble and hack their electronics, though.

 

[bholler]

Not the person you replied to. But I know lots of people here in nowhere PA that burn coal. Another reason people like it. If they get a job that keeps them away from cutting wood or traveling, they can order a ton of coal today and it's actually ready to burn, and cheaper then oil.

Yes I live in central pa and heated with coal for years. And being a chimney sweep I work on lots of coal stoves and furnaces and lots of dual fuels. And dual fuel stoves generally are not very good wood stoves. If you want to heat with coal use a coal stove if you want to heat with wood use a wood stove.

The person I was responding to also lives in California not pa

 

[Squirrely]

It is also directly proportional to quality of life and economic prosperity. .

I believe you.
I'm certain the larger government is, the more quality it adds to your life and the more it adds to your economic prosperity. My view is different from yours because I'm the only one personally responsible for the quality of my own life as well as my own economic prosperity.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I don't recall anyone referencing not having any government at all... only that the size of government is directly proportional to the failure of people to govern themselves.

If the size of government is directly proportional to the failure of people to govern themselves, then why is the following true?

The countries having governments with the most regulations and taxes are widely regarded as the most desirable countries to live in.

Examples (in no particular order); USA, Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, Italy, England, New Zealand, Australia etc.

The countries with the least regulation and smallest governments are not widely regarded as desirable places to live.

Examples (in no particular order); Jakarta, Serbia, Ukraine, Venezuela, Laos, Sierra Leon, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Somalia, etc.

These countries may not have the kind of environmental regulation, workplace safety and working conditions regulations, automobile pollution and safety regulation, financial and banking regulation, building codes and regulation, etc. that we have in the US, but they are also worse places to live. So there is a strong correlation between rules, regulations and standards vs. desirability and the happiness of residents, not an inverse relationship as you imply. Economically, the same correlation with rules and regulations holds true.

For your view to be true one would have to believe that the most desirable countries in the world to live in arose out of a "failure of people to govern themselves".

It's rare that a desirable thing is the result of a failure. A more obvious answer is that the representational democracies that govern and regulate every desirable country in the list above are the result of the people governing themselves. And doing it quite well.

 

[bholler]

I'm the only one personally responsible for the quality of my own life as well as my own economic prosperity.

So you don't breath the same air everyone else does? You dont drink the same water? You don't drive on the same roads? You don't expect police or fire to help you if need be? Wether you want to admit it or not you benefit from the regulations you despise so much.

 

[bholler]

It's rare that a desirable thing is the result of a failure. A more obvious answer is that the representational democracies that govern and regulate every desirable country in the list above are the result of the people governing themselves. And doing it quite well.

Well said

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I believe you.
I'm certain the larger government is, the more quality it adds to your life and the more it adds to your economic prosperity. My view is different from yours because I'm the only one personally responsible for the quality of my own life as well as my own economic prosperity.

People who think like you, that you alone are responsible for any economic prosperity you have attained, are just plain wrong. Most people who think like that received a public education, and the benefits of healthcare that, even in America, has elements that are subsidized by the government, from vaccinations to medical research and doctor training. You might not even be alive if not for government. If you run a small business your workers and any goods or services you may produce need public roads to do just about everything. Without courts and judicial systems you couldn't do business effectively. I could go on and on but the fantasy that someone in America achieved economic prosperity on their own has been discredited. You did not, nor did I.

 

[webby3650]

Spot on, webby.

It's satisfying to use a stove made of only simple robust cast iron parts and no finicky gadgets.

I enjoy messing around with my stoves. The BK needs very little attention so its very easy. If I needed it to be any easier to use or consistent, I'd just use my gas furnace.

 

[Ashful]

I personally like the idea of a woodstove with a computerized thermostat that monitors stove temperature and room temperature. Set a target room temperature and go.

Could it fell, buck, split, stack, and load, too?

 

[RobbieB]

I want a robot to open the door, crumple the newspaper and fill the bottom, stack the thin kindling, place a layer of thick kindling, flick the bic and close the door 30 seconds later.

 

[Squirrely]

This is true. All stoves sold in the US must meet the same standards for the market they are sold in.

They certainly do. I was referring to the cost of government built into manufacturing here.

What is also true is that American workers make higher wages than many (but not all) countries that import stoves.

They have to... because the cost of living here is higher.

Their higher wages are also built into the cost of the stoves as well as the cost of government which is built into the cost of manufacturing... just like the cost of government is built into every other product as well as every service purchased by consumers.

 

[Squirrely]

For your view to be true one would have to believe that the most desirable countries in the world to live in arose out of a "failure of people to govern themselves".

The real answer is obvious.

Those countries with the largest bureaucracies are desired most by people who failed to govern themselves.