Stabil My not be the Answer

[Halligan]

Local hardware store sells ethanol free gas in quart in gallon cans... pricey (about $20/gallon) but how much do you really use in a chainsaw?

Avgas no problem for me, I buy it for my ultralight plane during the winter when I don't fly much since it stores better, but I use ordinary car gas (with 10% ethanol) with no trouble all summer. The lead in avgas can cause problems too, spark plug fouling and lead deposits on valves in a 4-stroke engine.

Are you referring to Trufuel? I've seen that sold at Lowes and I've been purchasing the slightly more expensive Stihl Motomix fuel. I don't run my saw on this fuel while cutting but when laying the saw up for more than a few weeks I drain the gas, run the saw until it stalls, add a little Motomix and start saw to circulate through the carburator, shut saw off. Trufuel and Stihl Motomix come from the same factory with Motmix using Stihls HP Ultra synthetic oil. Trufuel does claim to use synthetic oil so I'm sure it's just as good. The nice thing is that the shelf life is 2 years for either fuel and it's ethanol free.

 

[MasterMech]

I must just be "Forrest Gump" lucky, but I run 87 octane, ethanol fuel in virtually everything I have (and I gotz lotz of engines). It is DANG rare that I ever have an issue associated with fuel. I don't treat it, sniff it, poke at it in any way. Just burn it. I have everything from old skool to newer string trimmers, saws, etc. Dunno, maybe one of these days my luck will run out, but Illinois was a consumer of ethanol fuel from the start of it, so I have been doing this for a long time.

I just did the head math and can instantly come up with 16 internal combustion engines that I work. I probably forgot a couple.

You ain't the only one Jags.

 

[FanMan]

Are you referring to Trufuel? I've seen that sold at Lowes and I've been purchasing the slightly more expensive Stihl Motomix fuel. I don't run my saw on this fuel while cutting but when laying the saw up for more than a few weeks I drain the gas, run the saw until it stalls, add a little Motomix and start saw to circulate through the carburator, shut saw off. Trufuel and Stihl Motomix come from the same factory with Motmix using Stihls HP Ultra synthetic oil. Trufuel does claim to use synthetic oil so I'm sure it's just as good. The nice thing is that the shelf life is 2 years for either fuel and it's ethanol free.

I don't recall the brand name... I do know they sold straight gas as well as gas/oil premix.

 

[billb3]

I must just be "Forrest Gump" lucky, but I run 87 octane, ethanol fuel in virtually everything I have (and I gotz lotz of engines). It is DANG rare that I ever have an issue associated with fuel. I don't treat it, sniff it, poke at it in any way. Just burn it. I have everything from old skool to newer string trimmers, saws, etc. Dunno, maybe one of these days my luck will run out, but Illinois was a consumer of ethanol fuel from the start of it, so I have been doing this for a long time.

I just did the head math and can instantly come up with 16 internal combustion engines that I work. I probably forgot a couple.

I've never Winterized either, but I'm starting to be suspicious of any jugs of gas sitting around for long periods of time.

 

[firefighterjake]

I am gonna start an Internet email going around that Yak pee is better than Stabil. Then buy a couple of Yaks.

But you want Tibetan yaks . . . the Nepalese yaks are no good -- you use the Nepalese yak pee and it will gum things up for sure vs. using the Tibetan yak pee.

 

[gmule]

You can also buy clean fuel without ethanol from motorcycle shops as well. They sell it in 5 gal cans called race fuel. Personally I just park them like I found them. In my area we have 10% ethanol blends in the winter.but not in the summer. If I have a small engine that is hard to start because of bad fuel I just give the air cleaner a shot of starting fluid and that usually gets them running.

 

[LLigetfa]

Using high test has nothing to do with needing the octane..

You can label me as "confused" if you want but I'm not buying the "nothing to do with needing the octane" bit. Yes, most premium gas has more other additives but even the most basic gas you buy today is better than what they were selling a decade or two ago. I like BB's comment in his sig "The "Good Old Days" weren't" cuz I think a lot of folks have a revisionist recollection of history.

I have far fewer problem with gas today than I did a decade or three ago. I feel no need to go out of my way to buy av-gas nor do I need to add YakPiss or Stabil. A little bit of Seafoam works wonders for me.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

You can label me as "confused" if you want but I'm not buying the "nothing to do with needing the octane" bit. Yes, most premium gas has more other additives but even the most basic gas you buy today is better than what they were selling a decade or two ago. I like BB's comment in his sig "The "Good Old Days" weren't" cuz I think a lot of folks have a revisionist recollection of history.

I have far fewer problem with gas today than I did a decade or three ago. I feel no need to go out of my way to buy av-gas nor do I need to add YakPiss or Stabil. A little bit of Seafoam works wonders for me.

Yeah!

 

[wkpoor]

I have far fewer problem with gas today than I did a decade or three ago. I feel no need to go out of my way to buy av-gas nor do I need to add YakPiss or Stabil. A little bit of Seafoam works wonders for me.

So your telling me fuel today that only stays fresh for about a month is better than fuel of 20yrs ago that wold still burn good after a year in the can. You can take a cup of todays gas and let is evaporate in a dish and see what all is left behind. Al that stuff is what plugs up passage ways. If its so good then why is it not allowed in aircraft tanks? Because those engines have to run reliably even if your plane hasn't been run in several months or a year. Alot of things we do today to satisfy the EPA isn't necessarily better although cleaner yes.

 

[FanMan]

If its so good then why is it not allowed in aircraft tanks? Because those engines have to run reliably even if your plane hasn't been run in several months or a year. Alot of things we do today to satisfy the EPA isn't necessarily better although cleaner yes.

Actually, many light planes are certified to run on car gas, as long as it doesn't contain ethanol. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get ethanol free car gas in many parts of the country.

 

[wkpoor]

Actually, many light planes are certified to run on car gas, as long as it doesn't contain ethanol. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get ethanol free car gas in many parts of the country.

That is correct. I haven't read one of those STC's for auto fuel but my guess its laced with restictions. I used to hear of people using pump gas in the 80's but haven't heard of any for yrs. I think a smart owner operator would stay very far away from pump gas in an airplane. You can say all you want how good you think it is in your weed wacker but put your but behind a prop and I'll bet you don't think its so good.

 

[LLigetfa]

So your telling me fuel today that only stays fresh for about a month...

PFFT! I think we have us a hypochondriac. Today's gas lasts me for months/years. It was so long ago that I mixed up the gas for my chainsaw that I don't remember if it is 2 or 3 years old. I leave all my OPE tanks filled up while in storage and they run fine on last year's gas. Maybe not perfect, but nothing a bit of Seafoam won't take care of.

 

[Gary_602z]

I am gonna start an Internet email going around that Yak pee is better than Stabil. Then buy a couple of Yaks.

That is one way to get rid of them empty Naty Light cans!

Gary

 

[FanMan]

That is correct. I haven't read one of those STC's for auto fuel but my guess its laced with restictions. I used to hear of people using pump gas in the 80's but haven't heard of any for yrs. I think a smart owner operator would stay very far away from pump gas in an airplane. You can say all you want how good you think it is in your weed wacker but put your but behind a prop and I'll bet you don't think its so good.

Many people are still using car gas in their planes. In states where ethanol free fuel is available, some airports have mogas pumps alongside the avgas pumps. Uncertified aircraft engines (used in homebuilts and ultralights), and some new certified engines, can use mogas with ethanol (Rotax allows up to 10% ethanol). I use mogas in my plane and have had no issues except for the need for a minor jetting adjustment (ethanol runs leaner). Better that than lead fouling from regular use of 100 octane fuel (if 80 octane avgas was still made I'd use it).

 

[wkpoor]

PFFT! I think we have us a hypochondriac. Today's gas lasts me for months/years. It was so long ago that I mixed up the gas for my chainsaw that I don't remember if it is 2 or 3 years old. I leave all my OPE tanks filled up while in storage and they run fine on last year's gas. Maybe not perfect, but nothing a bit of Seafoam won't take care of.

Lets go back to what started this thread. I was given a wacker and a blower that would not run after winter storage. Both had ethanol damage and fish eggs in the carb and both were loaded with fresh gas and stabil last fall and run a little before being put up. When I dumped out the gas it looked and stunk like old fuel. And this isn't the first time I've seen this. Just the first time a trusted source said they used stabil and it obviously wasn't the answer in this case. Both units are less than 10yrs old. Also its possible pump gas insn't the same everywhere in the country. It sounds from this forum west coasters aren't having as much trouble. If this is such a non issue then why would retailers be selling mower gas and why does my local mower shop have a back room full of hand held OPE right now in for service?

 

[wkpoor]

Many people are still using car gas in their planes. In states where ethanol free fuel is available, some airports have mogas pumps alongside the avgas pumps. Uncertified aircraft engines (used in homebuilts and ultralights), and some new certified engines, can use mogas with ethanol (Rotax allows up to 10% ethanol). I use mogas in my plane and have had no issues except for the need for a minor jetting adjustment (ethanol runs leaner). Better that than lead fouling from regular use of 100 octane fuel (if 80 octane avgas was still made I'd use it).

Buddy a couple hangers down says the lead fouling is most prevelant in engines certified for 80 octane. I personally have not seen any fouling on plugs in anything at the house. In fact they usually look unbelievably clean.

 

[ScotO]

Bottom line is the corn lobby runs this country. This ethanol gas is garbage. I run it in my equipment, go a little richer on the oil mix and I've never had a problem. But if you let it sit for, say, six months or more, it 'phase separates'. The ethanol settles in the tank, and when you go to start up your saw, mower, trimmer, etc.......guess what? it's getting a full blast of straight alcohol. That ruins engines.........Not to mention the solvent-like decay it does to rubber, nylon, plastic, etc. And the mileage goes to chit in your vehicle, too. OK, I'm done ranting....

 

[MasterMech]

Ethanol fuel blends phase separate not based on time but moisture content. I bet most folks having trouble with fuel fouling in the can are using non-CARB approved cans (not that there's anything wrong with that) and leaving the vents cracked or open to prevent pressure buildup. Poly fuel tanks/cans also expand more with temperature fluctuations and so they "breathe" far more than metal cans. That breathing exposes the fuel to moisture in the atmosphere via condensation inside the container. The more extreme/frequent the temperature fluctuation is, the worse the problem becomes.

No matter what fuel your using, and this includes the AvGas crowd, the rules are pretty much the same.

1.) Keep it in a sealed container.
2.) Protect it from extreme temperature fluctuations.
3.) Keep it in the dark.

It's amazing how much longer fuel lasts in equipment that sits in my garage vs. my shed.

 

[wkpoor]

leaving the vents cracked or open to prevent pressure buildup.

I know from experience if you vent a can or tank with Avgas you soon will have none. Lost about 15gallons off the top of a 55gal container one summer by letting it vent.

 

[HittinSteel]

Ethanol fuel blends phase separate not based on time but moisture content. I bet most folks having trouble with fuel fouling in the can are using non-CARB approved cans (not that there's anything wrong with that) and leaving the vents cracked or open to prevent pressure buildup. Poly fuel tanks/cans also expand more with temperature fluctuations and so they "breathe" far more than metal cans. That breathing exposes the fuel to moisture in the atmosphere via condensation inside the container. The more extreme/frequent the temperature fluctuation is, the worse the problem becomes.

No matter what fuel your using, and this includes the AvGas crowd, the rules are pretty much the same.

1.) Keep it in a sealed container.
2.) Protect it from extreme temperature fluctuations.
3.) Keep it in the dark.

It's amazing how much longer fuel lasts in equipment that sits in my garage vs. my shed.

I bought a new trimmer last spring. So I am doing a study on my old weedeater. It has the same tank of gas with stabil (marine) with 93 octane 10% ethanol in it that was in it last spring. Started normally a few days ago and ran very well. Hung it back up on the shelf and will try it again next spring. So the mix is just fine after 1 year.

Caveat..... I run fresh mix/gas in my chainsaws and outboard motor. Just posting my "unofficial" study results.

 

[gpcollen1]

PFFT! I think we have us a hypochondriac. Today's gas lasts me for months/years. It was so long ago that I mixed up the gas for my chainsaw that I don't remember if it is 2 or 3 years old. I leave all my OPE tanks filled up while in storage and they run fine on last year's gas. Maybe not perfect, but nothing a bit of Seafoam won't take care of.

Exactly! How the hell do i still have a 5 gallon can in my garage that i filled in NOvember. Just mixed some up for the chain saw and it actually ran. How the hell does my snowblower start up year after year after sitting for 8 months. How did that quad I bought that sat for 2 years still run? It actually ran rough until I loaded the tank with sea foam.

 

[billb3]

Lets go back to what started this thread. I was given a wacker and a blower that would not run after winter storage. Both had ethanol damage and fish eggs in the carb and both were loaded with fresh gas and stabil last fall and run a little before being put up. When I dumped out the gas it looked and stunk like old fuel. And this isn't the first time I've seen this. Just the first time a trusted source said they used stabil and it obviously wasn't the answer in this case. Both units are less than 10yrs old. Also its possible pump gas insn't the same everywhere in the country. It sounds from this forum west coasters aren't having as much trouble. If this is such a non issue then why would retailers be selling mower gas and why does my local mower shop have a back room full of hand held OPE right now in for service?

It's my understanding that ethanol absorbs moisture leading to the fish eggs and jello like crap. I try to keep caps tight, tanks full or empty and I'm using a tablespoon of seafoam in any tanks that sit for a few months, especially snowblowers and rototillers that get used so infrequently. I have drained a tank because the gas was a golden yellow and full of sludgy stuff on the bottom. (snowblower). I've also used seafoam and made things worse with a rider that sat for two years. So it seems to help, but only up to a certain point.

 

[charly]

SeaFoam, never any problems. Amsoil quickshot and StarTron as well. My Stihl Pro 360 saw is over 9 years old with all it's original carb parts and hoses.

 

[amateur cutter]

I personally don't want anything in my saws that runs leaner, nor do I want anything that draws moisture. 3 of the 4 saws have more than enough compression to warrant 90+ octane fuel to prevent detonation. Keep in mind that car engines have knock sensors & timing retard features in the ECM's for reason, as well as very rapid mixture adjustments. Like every few milliseconds on the very newest models. All these things allow the ECM to compensate for varying fuel quality. In the saws & other ope that I run I want the most consistent quality I can get. For the 50 to 60 gals. of mix I burn per year, the extra money is well worth it. IMHO there's a reason Stihl is selling most replacement carbs at their cost. My dealer told me it's due ethanol damage & not being able to find plastic/rubber components that will hold up to it long term. Just my .02. A C

 

[Angelo C]

Folks,
If you are running Stihl Synthetic mix you already have a stabilizer in the mix. NOt sure of all the other brands but no need for Stabil if you run Synth. Read the bottle it says so right on the label.

I keep my OPE in the basement and rarely does the mix go bad. I think its the temp, sun and humidity swings that corrode the fuels. Corroding the lines is just a matter of time though. rubber in petroleum will deteriorate sooner or later.