St. Croix SCF 050 Pot Overflowing

[nthurber79]

The manual states if you have a long horizontal run, then you will need more to open the damper. If I remember correctly, your horizontal run used to be quite long but you got it shortened up. If that is the case, you probably won't need as much air as it used to take.

I did shorten up the exhaust run quite a bit... i dont know if what i have is still considered a long horizontal run or not though.. I have 1 foot out to a single cleanout tee then up about three feet then a 90 degree angle to 3 feet out of the house plus another foot to the term cap which is 45 degree. Would you think that is a long run or pretty average? Its in the basement so really was best i could do.

Also does anyone know for the draft trim that is set on heat level 1 if upping the voltage is only in effect when on heat level 1? i have read the manual but not really clear if thats whats happening.

 

[hossthehermit]

That's average or short run in my opinion ................

Draft trim and auger trim changes should be in effect on all levels if it's like my Revolution ( pretty sure it is )

Keep in mind, if you lose power or unplug it, settings return to factory preset.

This is the attatchment for the Rigid vac, don't know if it will fit others, I point it up, pull it out, point it down, wiggle it around while I bang on the back wall ( yeah, I know ) .....

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-2...2503/100070876?cm_mmc=sem|psocial|fbx|dynamic

 

[nthurber79]

That's average or short run in my opinion ................

Draft trim and auger trim changes should be in effect on all levels if it's like my Revolution ( pretty sure it is )

Keep in mind, if you lose power or unplug it, settings return to factory preset.

This is the attatchment for the Rigid vac, don't know if it will fit others, I point it up, pull it out, point it down, wiggle it around while I bang on the back wall ( yeah, I know ) .....

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-2...2503/100070876?cm_mmc=sem|psocial|fbx|dynamic

Thank you for the link... i will pick one up this weekend looks like would work great for those traps.. I am going to stick with the default draft trim settings i think for now.. i go back and forth with do i up the voltage or not but i think it just adds another layer of complexity right now.. I need to focus on fine tuning the air damper first.

 

[hossthehermit]

Thank you for the link... i will pick one up this weekend looks like would work great for those traps.. I am going to stick with the default draft trim settings i think for now.. i go back and forth with do i up the voltage or not but i think it just adds another layer of complexity right now.. I need to focus on fine tuning the air damper first.

Wise decision in my opinion................... I bought mine in 2008 new, ( online from a dealer in the next state and had it shipped in ), installed it myself with help from a friend, got some help from some folks on here and over at the old IBC forum, but mostly trial and error and reading the manual ............. keep a copy of the manual upstairs by my chair, one downstairs by the stove, one in my locker at work ............. always trying something to make it work BETTER ................. in the last 7 years I've used the oil furnace a total of maybe 10 days, mostly during power outages on the generator ..............guess if I had one piece of advice to offer, it would be, once you get it running pretty good, be patient and only mess with one thing at a time, that way if it doesn't work out, you know what to change back ............. don't shut it down, change damper setting, change feed rate, change venting, put in a new brand of pellets, start it back up and wonder why it won't burn ............ well, I DO go on don't I????????????? Stay warm .................

 

[nthurber79]

Wise decision in my opinion................... I bought mine in 2008 new, ( online from a dealer in the next state and had it shipped in ), installed it myself with help from a friend, got some help from some folks on here and over at the old IBC forum, but mostly trial and error and reading the manual ............. keep a copy of the manual upstairs by my chair, one downstairs by the stove, one in my locker at work ............. always trying something to make it work BETTER ................. in the last 7 years I've used the oil furnace a total of maybe 10 days, mostly during power outages on the generator ..............guess if I had one piece of advice to offer, it would be, once you get it running pretty good, be patient and only mess with one thing at a time, that way if it doesn't work out, you know what to change back ............. don't shut it down, change damper setting, change feed rate, change venting, put in a new brand of pellets, start it back up and wonder why it won't burn ............ well, I DO go on don't I????????????? Stay warm .................

As a update after many adjustments with the air damper I still felt like I wasn't getting the results i was looking for as the pot would still need to be stirred up after several hours or it would end up overflowing.. I decided to go out and buy a leaf blower and attachment to connect to the exhaust to clean it out as i have read many users on here who have had success with that trick.. It wasn't as dramatic as some of the pics i have seen as it only was a little gray for about 15 seconds or so but i let it run for about a minute.. Not expecting any improvement as it didn't really seem like it did a whole lot I fired it up and I am happy to report that the stove is a whole new beast.. The pellets in the pot really dance around now and when the new pellets fall it knocks them out like it should. After seeing that after a few minutes after turning it back on i had a good feeling things were going to be better and it is as it's been running well over 24 hours and the pellets are still dancing and the glass is cleaner (lighter gray vs. dark black) and there is noting but a light coating of ash on the sides of the burn pot vs. a pile of unspent pellets.. I have the air damper wide open and the control board set to the middle jumper 11.5 seconds and at this point i am thinking i am going to leave it alone as it is running like a champ.. I am surprised that this did the trick but i think I am going to do that once a month or so just to keep it clean as it was really pretty easy to do and I do not have any neighbors to bother with it. Question for those who have done this... i read somewhere that before you do this you should disconnect the vacuum line?? Not sure where that is and if its really necessary. Also i have been using the pine pellets during my testing and going to try and feed the hardwood pellets to see how it goes.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[lsirois]

I just found this thread and it has been very educational. I am also an SCF-050 owner (older unit, but this is my second Winter with it), but never had much problems with it. Mine has a 3" outside air intake and an insulated 4" chimney exhaust that goes up ~30'. I clean everything myself and do find it to be a bit of a pain to clean. I am curious about your leaf blower method. I have heard of people cleaning their venting using a leaf blower, but are you cleaning the actual stove with it?

 

[heat seeker]

Way to go!

You don't want to subject the vacuum switch to excessive vacuum, as from the leaf blower. I just leave my stove door open when I do the LBT, no issues.

A clean stove is a happy stove!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I just found this thread and it has been very educational. I am also an SCF-050 owner (older unit, but this is my second Winter with it), but never had much problems with it. Mine has a 3" outside air intake and an insulated 4" chimney exhaust that goes up ~30'. I clean everything myself and do find it to be a bit of a pain to clean. I am curious about your leaf blower method. I have heard of people cleaning their venting using a leaf blower, but are you cleaning the actual stove with it?

We use the leaf blower to get all of the crud out of the stoves exhaust path, it builds up over time and the air flow from the leaf blower can remove it to where it can do no harm to the burn, you do the leaf blower after all brush work and vacuuming is done. It simply overpowers any shop vac or ash vac. You can also use an air compressor but it can get really messy if you aren't careful. It is the vacuum feature that the leaf blower must have. There are plenty of examples of its use on you tube. Unless you know how much your vacuum switch on the stove can take you either remove the tube from the switch or leave the units door open while using the leaf blower.

 

[nthurber79]

Way to go!

You don't want to subject the vacuum switch to excessive vacuum, as from the leaf blower. I just leave my stove door open when I do the LBT, no issues.

A clean stove is a happy stove!

Thank you i will make sure to do that then as well and leave the door open

 

[heat seeker]

I just found this thread and it has been very educational. I am also an SCF-050 owner (older unit, but this is my second Winter with it), but never had much problems with it. Mine has a 3" outside air intake and an insulated 4" chimney exhaust that goes up ~30'. I clean everything myself and do find it to be a bit of a pain to clean. I am curious about your leaf blower method. I have heard of people cleaning their venting using a leaf blower, but are you cleaning the actual stove with it?

You need to clean the stove as best you can first. The LBT is to get places you can't reach. So, the LBT finish cleans both the stove and the venting.

And I'll stress again - you use the VACUUM part of the leaf blower!

 

[nthurber79]

I just found this thread and it has been very educational. I am also an SCF-050 owner (older unit, but this is my second Winter with it), but never had much problems with it. Mine has a 3" outside air intake and an insulated 4" chimney exhaust that goes up ~30'. I clean everything myself and do find it to be a bit of a pain to clean. I am curious about your leaf blower method. I have heard of people cleaning their venting using a leaf blower, but are you cleaning the actual stove with it?

Isirois - Glad to run across another SCF 050 owner... I went to the home depot and picked up a cheaper electric leaf blower (220mph) with vacuum feature was like $43 i made sure to buy the extended warranty as well for $7 as I knew this unit was going to have a harder life than most. I then bought a 5 inch to 4 inch Reducer in the HVAC dept which mates well with the end of the plastic vacuum of the leaf blower i then connected it to the exhaust (I have a direct vent so made it easy) and duct tapped the connection. Fired up the leaf blower and let it run (downwind of course) I cannot say for sure how much it really pulled from the stove itself as i had already cleaned it pretty good and I didn't see any change after doing this but i do know the exhaust pipe was crystal clear afterwards.. It must of shook something loose or cleared some air channel because after this was completed the unit runs like a top.. It is running just like when i had a service pro come out a couple months ago and spend 6 hours cleaning it.. For me it was simple enough to do since i didn't have to climb up on the roof, so i am going to make it a cleaning routine once a month..

 

[nthurber79]

You need to clean the stove as best you can first. The LBT is to get places you can't reach. So, the LBT finish cleans both the stove and the venting.

And I'll stress again - you use the VACUUM part of the leaf blower!

I do a pretty thorough job cleaning this unit every few days and plan on just using the LBT as a once a month icing on the cake type thing.. You are correct.. you want to make sure to do the vacuum part the way my leaf blower is setup pretty hard to get it wrong though so feel pretty confident in not having that issue myself personally. Thanks for your reply.

 

[hossthehermit]

Glad she's runnin' better ...................

 

[Arti]

Thank's for the heads up, It is sure a great feeling when you get it working right isn't it.
I'm sure you will enjoy the St Croix, I know once I got the one here cleaned up and adjusted it has worked great.

 

[heat seeker]

It took the pro 6 hours to clean it??? What did he use, a toothbrush? It takes me about 45 minutes, including the LBT, and that's taking my time.

 

[bogieb]

It took the pro 6 hours to clean it??? What did he use, a toothbrush? It takes me about 45 minutes, including the LBT, and that's taking my time.

I gotta admit, it took me an hour or so last weekend without doing the LBT. But I did take off the top and side covers and study the electrical trying to figure out my thermostat issues for about 20 minutes.

But yeah, 6 hours seems a bit excessive.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

It took the pro 6 hours to clean it??? What did he use, a toothbrush? It takes me about 45 minutes, including the LBT, and that's taking my time.

Now, now, OM there are other folks out there that have been known to spit shine and repaint their fire boxes during a really deep cleaning.

 

[nthurber79]

In regards to the Service tech taking 6 hours the original plan was to replace everything in the unit due to it being covered under a home owners warranty so he took and inspected each part to see what needed to be replaced.. the previous owner had burned corn and really gunked up this unit. In the end most parts were still good and he replaced a few odds and ends such as gaskets and the pot scrapper etc.. It was an expensive bill but honestly cheaper than what I originally thought it would be and lucky for me was covered by the home warranty so I didn't have much issue with a through inspection.

But I am back into issue with pot overflowing but at least this time I have narrowed it down to pellets... It ran great for a couple days on Pine softwood pellets and was really excited to see how clean and efficient this unit was running during this time.. I then loaded the hopper with some premium hardwood pellets from the same company and waited to see the results hoping things would be the same... well it wasn't... after a couple hours I started to have the issue with pellets filling up (not as bad as before) but enough to not really be able to continue running this way long term.... The hardwood appear to work if I run on level 1 or 2 but anything higher than 3 just ends up a mess.. So tonight I am going leave everything alone (settings) do a quick vacuum of the burn pot etc.. and fill it up with the softwood pellets to see what happens and if they burn through the night cleanly as I suspect they will I have 3 tons of hardwood pellets I am going to try and sell off cheaply as that is the majority of my stockpile

Thanks everyone!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Likely still crap in that section between the two side ash trap covers, not known in the St Croix line for being easy to get totally cleaned out.

Or it is possible that the combustion blower is failing.

 

[nthurber79]

Likely still crap in that section between the two side ash trap covers, not known it the St Croix line for being easy to get totally cleaned out.

Or it is possible that the combustion blower is failing.

It is very possible that the side ash traps have crud in them... I really struggle with getting them squeaky clean.. I use a dryer vent brush to work up in there and take a small rubber mallet and bang on the back wall which is tough to do. I then vacuum best I can but cannot really get up there to well with the crevice attachment. I called the hardware store where I purchased all these pellets and they are fine with me exchanging the pellets to the softwood so I might start the process of bringing some in and going through the hassle... Some days I just ask myself... is it worth it I have put some much time into this and lost so many hours of sleep, but I guess I am conditioning myself for being sleep deprived with the little one coming any day..

 

[heat seeker]

Now, now, OM there are other folks out there that have been known to spit shine and repaint their fire boxes during a really deep cleaning.

Understood!

My stove will never pass the white glove test, but it breathes easy and exhales plenty of heat.

I was concerned that the owner was paying for 6 hours of labor, which would run into hundreds of dollars. Fortunately the warranty was a big help.

I would like to take this opportunity to promote - the Leaf Blower Trick again. I have never had an accumulation in that hard-to-access area behind the back wall - the LBT gets it all for me. I make sure the door is open.

 

[nthurber79]

Understood!

My stove will never pass the white glove test, but it breathes easy and exhales plenty of heat.

I was concerned that the owner was paying for 6 hours of labor, which would run into hundreds of dollars. Fortunately the warranty was a big help.

I would like to take this opportunity to promote - the Leaf Blower Trick again. I have never had an accumulation in that hard-to-access area behind the back wall - the LBT gets it all for me. I make sure the door is open.

heat seeker- You are right the bill was 500 dollars... wasn't cheap but I did get reimbursed which made it well worth it. In regards to the LBT I did do it over the weekend and it seemed to do the trick (at least with softwood pellets) but I cannot say that I felt it really pulled a lot from the stove so not sure if I didn't do something completely correct... I attached a 5inch to 4 inch metal reducer and mated it with the exhaust (term cap off obviously) duct taped that connection and let it rip.. the exhaust pipe was squeaky clean afterwards but when I went down to look at the stove I still saw ash that needed to be cleaned up in the ash traps on the side.. again it worked at least I think it did as I had a nice burning stove for a couple days and that is more than I can say as of late... it was when the hardwood pellets started feeding thru that things went south... appreciate your help as always.

 

[heat seeker]

Sounds good to me. You might want to take a small mirror and flashlight and look up past the ash trap openings to see what's up there. You can also (on my stove at least) look down from the top to see behind the back wall. I remove the baffle plate and pull the exchanger rake out all the way, and put a rag over the end of the shaft so I don't lose an eye. I can then use the mirror and light to see down the back wall. I use a mechanic's mirror with a handle. I expected to see baffles and such down there. Nope - it's a clear path. The Croix web site has a video with cutaway views of the stove that could be helpful.
The LBT isn't meant to clean the entire stove, just get what the cleaning missed. But you knew that!

(On the LBT - not much to get wrong. I make sure the stove door is open, to protect the vacuum switch and get the max airflow through the stove.)

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The St Croix stoves have a very hard tp clean section of their exhaust channel it is behind the firebox half way between the ash traps. Somewhere on here is a diagram of the exhaust path in a cut away drawing that highlights this area, newer stoves have added a third clean out in order to get to this area.

As for white glove cleaning ain't anyway I'm going to attempt that on my pellet roaster. A deep clean for me takes less time than the stove shut down does. But I have a simple stove to go along with my KISS mindset. Been a LBT assisted one since forever now. Do not forsake the brush work and thumping of the fire box (not if any chance you have cast one as they go snap crackle pop and end up as sharp projectiles when thrown.

 

[nthurber79]

The St Croix stoves have a very hard tp clean section of their exhaust channel it is behind the firebox half way between the ash traps. Somewhere on here is a diagram of the exhaust path in a cut away drawing that highlights this area, newer stoves have added a third clean out in order to get to this area.

As for white glove cleaning ain't anyway I'm going to attempt that on my pellet roaster. A deep clean for me takes less time than the stove shut down does. But I have a simple stove to go along with my KISS mindset. Been a LBT assisted one since forever now. Do not forsake the brush work and thumping of the fire box (not if any chance you have cast one as they go snap crackle pop and end up as sharp projectiles when thrown.

Just following up on this - I want to thank everyone for their help and expertise first and foremost... I purchased a small mechanics mirror as heat seeker recommended and sure enough I was able to see a combustion path behind the burn pot that I never knew existed... I always had cleaned the ash traps but went vertical not horizontal (behind the burn pot) and what I saw was not good.. It was clogged and I stuck my finger in there and could feel how clogged it was. I purchased some semi stiff plastic flex tubing and cut a piece of about a foot and duct taped it to the end of my shop vac and really worked in there I could hear all kinds of junk being vacuumed up, I took a rubber mallet and banged several times along the firewall and then vacuumed again. I knew I was on to something so I decided to go with the mold on St. Croix stoves and set my air damper back to the #2 pencil width and I kept the feed rate (jumpers in middle) to 11.5 and left the draft trim at +5v (not sure if really necessary) fired it up and decided to keep trying the hardwood and just like when I had the softwoods burning I could tell things were going to be better.. right away the pellets were dancing in the burn pot and it was burning hot. I came back to check after 2 hours which would normally be a overflowing pot (with hardwoods) and I couldn't believe what I saw.. The fire was burning so crisp and clean there was barely any ash and the pellets were jumping around like popcorn.. but the most shocking thing I saw was that the glass was crystal clear, I have never had that once since working with this stove, usually after about 30 mins I have some type of black soot along the sides of the glass and the middle stays clear... I let it run overnight and checked this morning and same thing the fire was really going strong and so clean the glass had just the lightest hint of grey on the sides but you really had to look to even see it.. I feel I have with all your help finally conquered this beast! The heat it is putting out is so much better than what I have had before as well it was about 10 degrees here last night and I ran I on 4 overnight and it kept the house very cozy something I have never really had as usually it would dip a few degrees overnight in the past and I would turn on the oil burner for few mins to take the chill off.. This couldn't come at a better time as I was so desperate to get this thing working correctly before the baby arrives and it is looking like that will be any day now.. Again much thanks to all those who responded to my plea for help, it is appreciated more than I can express. It is a nice feeling to be on the other end of this battle as I was getting so close to just get rid of this unit and buy a new one which was not really in the budget this year. For the first time I am liking this furnace.