St Croix Hastings Air Issue

[mkmh]

I called a local dealer today and he is 5 weeks out for service. In talking through the symptoms he seemed convinced that the stove needed the leaveblower treatment.
I'm going to pull the combustion blower for starters, but I guess I may have to do the leaf blower thing eventually too. Frustrating because I really don't want to deal with the sooty mess. He mentioned that they typically take the stove outside when they do that. Go figure....
I'll keep updating this as I go along

 

[ylomnstr]

I called a local dealer today and he is 5 weeks out for service. In talking through the symptoms he seemed convinced that the stove needed the leaveblower treatment.
I'm going to pull the combustion blower for starters, but I guess I may have to do the leaf blower thing eventually too. Frustrating because I really don't want to deal with the sooty mess. He mentioned that they typically take the stove outside when they do that. Go figure....
I'll keep updating this as I go along

I really hope you get this fixed. One thing though, what exactly is the leaf blower thing?

 

[Xena]

I wouldn't do the leaf blower thing in the house no way.
Besides you don't have to. As I mentioned, when I
removed the combustion fan I not only vac'd out the
recessed area that the fan sits in, but I scraped it out with
a putty knife and got my hand up in there as far
as I could with the knife. You will get black up to your
elbows but at least you won't make a disaster out of your home
and you will get all the crap out of those passages.
Stick the vac tube up in there....use a longish tube and fish
it all around up in the there.
I kept vacuuming up what was breaking loose, and there
was a lot. Mind you, it broke up in chunks, not dust piles.

From there, take a large screwdriver or other heavy tool
and firmly tap on the back wall from the inner back of the stove, vac out what drops,
repeat this on the inside of the stove (above the ash traps), again vac up, continue
on both sides of the back wall until nothing falls.

To get up inside the ash traps I used duct tape to attach a small
piece of tubing to the end of my shop vac.

I've had my stove for 4 years also and run it 24/7 so I'm sure it
gets just as much usage and build up as yours.

 

[mkmh]

The leafblower thing is as Big Water outlined above.
Thanks Zeta on the tips with the blower. That is what i'll do tonight. I fashioned up some pretty fancy tubing last night and did some good work on the inside...so I am thinking i'll be able get in there tonight and clear things out from the blower area. My guess is that I have missed some pretty hard deposits...but I have to think your method will work.
If not, a good friend has offered up his leaf blower and muscles to help get the stove out of the house to implement plan B tomorrow night.

 

[BIG WATER]

I believe that Zeta's method is adequate for the fact his stove is running well. The leaf blower trick is stupid in the house. However I was desperate and searched all the lazy flame, sooty glass threads I could find. It started dipping into the teens at night so I freaked and fired up the leaf blower.

I also went to town with a coat hanger and a bottle brush. I reached as far as I could in every direction. Used the 5 hp Sears shop vac. I really sucks.

I would like to know where the port from the exhaust manifold travel to get to the ash clean out area. That is the abyss of the stove that the dreaded leaf blower
knocks loose.

By the way mkmh is that you in the photo or Napolean Dynamite ??

 

[mkmh]

Just got done pulling the blower and cleaning everything top to bottom. What a friggin job... :snake:
To get the blower off I of course had to pull the vac switch...move it away from the wall, pull off the back panel etc etc. Not that easy to get at those hex nuts on the blower, so that took some interesting angles and ratchet configurations.
There was certainly some crap in the exhaust chamber, but i'm skeptical that it was so much to cause my problem. I snaked some tubing in there attached to my shop vac and did a lot of banging around with flashlights and screw drivers.
The whole thing probably took 2.5 hours or so.

The stove fired right up after and it appears that I am getting plenty of air. I cranked it up to #3 and i'm in observation mode now. The glass did seem to darken up in the first 30 minutes which has me worried, but I do have what appears to be a fairly active flame in there. I will know if the problem is solved in about an hour. Cautious, worried, optimism at this point. If this fails I will try my hardest to throw thestove out the window.

BTW - That is my man Napolean D. in the avatar. Love that guy....he has mad skillz.
Best regards...i'll be on again tomorrow with the verdict.

 

[ylomnstr]

Just out of curiosity, how quickly did you start to notice soot on the glass before these issues? I cleaned my glass last Thursday and by today, I'm starting to see some soot on the top quarter of the glass and the edges of the glass.

 

[Xena]

That's about how long it took me too. Yes the nuts
on one side of the blower were a pita to get at. I didn't have to remove
the vac switch to get the motor out but it was a major removal/cleaning
job for sure. Still had to pull the stove out from the fireplace
and remove the exhaust flange.

Anyway I will keep my fingers crossed for you. 5 weeks is
a long time to have to wait for a tech to come out. Jeepers.

 

[mkmh]

Just out of curiosity, how quickly did you start to notice soot on the glass before these issues? I cleaned my glass last Thursday and by today, I'm starting to see some soot on the top quarter of the glass and the edges of the glass.

That was about what I would see. Once I installed the OAK it was never the dark soot either (unless I got really crappy pellets).

 

[Xena]

If I run on #1 my glass get's clouded up around
the edges in 24 hours.
No big deal. It's not black soot and the stove runs
just fine.

 

[mkmh]

Still have the problem. I cannot believe it is a cleaning issue at this point either. The stove ran like it was getting plenty of air for the first hour...now it is back to the same. Could not keep up on 3....rolled it back to 1 now and the flame is not looking good.

I suppose it could still be an issue with the gaskets, but those seem to be closing up tight now.
Weak exhaust blower...bad control board?
Does the board regulate the amount of air fed to the burn pot? The pot just does not look like it is getting enough. 4 years is probably not unheard of for board failure..

 

[BIG WATER]

Earlier post said you had not tried # 4 on my list or #6. Try # 4 go to the back of the heat tubes and clean them. Then from the back of the the heat tubes down the back of the firewall liner to the ash trap doors. I used a bottle brush and a coat hanger. Chunks and dust should pile out.

I still think there is soot plugging the air flow through the route somewhere.

I thought the same thing about my EXP's circuit board and door seals. It was neither.

Also my stove displayed the same symptoms: Running good for an hour and then piling up.

The port area between the exhaust manifold and the fire box or ash trap is where the problem lies. I believe.

The dreaded leaf blower will get it.

 

[BIG WATER]

Well, I replaced the door gasket, and that clearly needed to be done. Over the last year, we had picked up a faint smoke smell on start-up and during low burns. It happened slowly over time to where for whatever reason I was thinking it was normal. That smell is now done, which is obviously a good sign. I'm also now seeing a difference when I change the air intake settings, where as before I replaced the gasket the change to the flame was very minimal.
Unfortunately, the stove still does not seem to be burning very well. The glass sooted up within an hour after start-up, though it does seem like combustion is better.
I may try the ash pan gasket next weekend.
Other than that, I guess it could be that I have a pellet quality issue (though I have used 2 brands). Hopefully it isn't a bad control board, but I guess that is a possibility too.

CLEAN YOUR STOVE!!

If the ash pan isn't leaking I can guarantee you have a dirty stove. Same thing happened to my Pepin last year... had the service guy come over with his leaf blower... he sucked out all the crap outta the stove and it fired up perfectly and continues to run great today...

DID I MENTION THAT YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR STOVE...?

sorry for shouting.... back to regular programming...

This cheese head used the leaf blower.

 

[krooser]

Well, I replaced the door gasket, and that clearly needed to be done. Over the last year, we had picked up a faint smoke smell on start-up and during low burns. It happened slowly over time to where for whatever reason I was thinking it was normal. That smell is now done, which is obviously a good sign. I'm also now seeing a difference when I change the air intake settings, where as before I replaced the gasket the change to the flame was very minimal.
Unfortunately, the stove still does not seem to be burning very well. The glass sooted up within an hour after start-up, though it does seem like combustion is better.
I may try the ash pan gasket next weekend.
Other than that, I guess it could be that I have a pellet quality issue (though I have used 2 brands). Hopefully it isn't a bad control board, but I guess that is a possibility too.

CLEAN YOUR STOVE!!

If the ash pan isn't leaking I can guarantee you have a dirty stove. Same thing happened to my Pepin last year... had the service guy come over with his leaf blower... he sucked out all the crap outta the stove and it fired up perfectly and continues to run great today...

DID I MENTION THAT YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR STOVE...?

sorry for shouting.... back to regular programming...

This cheese head used the leaf blower.

Use the VACUUM side of the leaf blower and hook it up to the end of your outside vent pipe. You use the leaf blower to SUCK everything out of the stove. A 215 mph suck job works wonders. Make an adaptor with a 3" piece of plastic pipe... that's how I made mine. It connects the blower to the vent pipe.

Leave your stove right where it is. Clean your ash pan first or it will suck all the ashes out of it, too.

Where's my old girlfriend when you need her?

 

[mkmh]

sorry for shouting.... back to regular programming


Use the VACUUM side of the leaf blower and hook it up to the end of your outside vent pipe. You use the leaf blower to SUCK everything out of the stove. A 215 mph suck job works wonders. Make an adaptor with a 3" piece of plastic pipe... that's how I made mine. It connects the blower to the vent pipe.

Leave your stove right where it is. Clean your ash pan first or it will suck all the ashes out of it, too.

Where's my old girlfriend when you need her?

lol
Ok, that sounds like it is worth a try. I have to say that (If this works) this is a design flaw with the stove. I have maintained my stove very well since day one, and the fact that in needs a 215 MPH wind to get it clean now is hard to accept!

I'm glad to hear that the symptoms you guys were seeing almost identical symptoms. It is enough to make one go crazy to see the flame looking lively and active for that first hour after the cleaning.....only to get lazy and die down as it goes on.

 

[ylomnstr]

Have you tried contacting St. Croix support yet?

 

[mkmh]

Well it looks like I am back up an running. I had the leaf blower on standby but did not need to use it. Instead I went back in for one final cleaning attempt of the heat exchanger area and the area behind the fire brick. The key this pass was using coat hangers, bottle brushes...and here is the big one A PLUMBING SNAKE. I thought5 of it as I was poking around in the ash traps with the coat hanger. I was getting a few deposits here and there, but didn't seem like ti was doing the job.
However, when I went in through the ash pan...and into the ashtrap with the snake, that was when tons of ash started falling. I think I must have let out 3 feet of snake in there to where it was coiling around getting every nook and cranny.
All told I bet I pulled another pound of fine white ash out of the stove today...this after 4 deep cleanings in the last several days.

Thank you all for sticking with me on this one. You were all right (especially BIG WATER), and the prodding kept me going back for the cleanings. I have to say I'm a little PO'd with St Croix for not having this as part of their annual maintenance guide. Harman has an excellent step by step guide, St Croix needs to step up and produce one. Clearly this is something that 98% of stove owners are going to run into, and I have to say that dealer support is limited for St Croix. I called 3 dealers in my area and all were at least a month out for service, and nobody was able to even give me good advice over the phone.
The training manual and owner's manual are decent, but neither of them really gets into detail about how to REALLY clean your stove.

Spread the word on the plumbing snake trick. It works incredibly well, and should probably be standard equipment for St Croix owners. the best part is that it break up hard deposits that even a Vac with thin tubing may not bust up.

Thanks again to all!

 

[ylomnstr]

Awesome. Glad you fixed it. These boards can be a life saver. So did you have to physically move the stove to do this? Or were you able to do it all from where it was?

 

[mkmh]

Awesome. Glad you fixed it. These boards can be a life saver. So did you have to physically move the stove to do this? Or were you able to do it all from where it was?

Thanks.
Had to move it last night to get the exhaust blower out, but for the stuff I did today I was able to keep it in place.
In hind sight, pulling the blower was not really necessary. I got some crap out of there, but there were no obstructions. I would say that once every 6-10 tons is probably fine for that job (assuming you are keeping up with standard exhaust cleaning.

 

[BIG WATER]

How is it burning now ? I like the plumbing snake trick. I think the St. Croix has hidden areas that cause problems. The plumbing snake flops around inside and spins. I am sure it does a better job than the coat hanger and covers more space faster than the coat hanger.

I also like Kroosers idea with using the leaf blower from the outside. Last year my St. Croix dealer gave me some cleaning instructions. However the best ideas are found here.

 

[Xena]

Great news, glad to hear you got it working properly now!

On the blowers though, I prefer to pull them both every
year with the complete end of year maintenance which
for me includes all the stuff you have done over the past
few days, plus brushing the vent pipe. Whether I burn
a ton or 4 I will do this every year.

I will mention that my Loveless shop vac is not your average vac.
It is far more powerful than any regular shop vac I've ever owned
so it pulls out stuff with the longer thin tube I attached, that
other vacs may not get.

 

[mkmh]

It is burning well now. Of course the temps outside are back up to 50, which is kind of funny (stove fails when it is 17!), but I ran it on 4 for over an hour today and it burned great.
Overall I am back to being very impressed with my St Croix. I have yet to replace a mechanical part in 4 years, which is pretty amazing. The nooks and cranny's are part of the stove and I don't expect i'll ever again have a problem with a plugged stove now that I have a strategy for dealing with them. I still think St Croix should put out a good step by step cleaning manual to help owners out. Dealer support really does not exist in my area, so you have to throw owners a bone and empower them.

Score another point for hearth.com

 

[mkmh]

Great news, glad to hear you got it working properly now!

On the blowers though, I prefer to pull them both every
year with the complete end of year maintenance which
for me includes all the stuff you have done over the past
few days, plus brushing the vent pipe. Whether I burn
a ton or 4 I will do this every year.

I will mention that my Loveless shop vac is not your average vac.
It is far more powerful than any regular shop vac I've ever owned
so it pulls out stuff with the longer thin tube I attached, that
other vacs may not get.

Good point on the Vac. I may have to buy myself one of those for X-Mas. I have a decent shop vac with a sheetrock filter, but I could have used more suction for sure.
I also caught a filter on fire two nights ago when I accidentally sucked up an ember :red: Kind of a dumb rookie mistake, but it builds the case for buying a true ash vac.
When it is 17 degrees outside and you are counting on the stove, it can lead to frustration poor decision making.

 

[ylomnstr]

Maybe you can put together a nice cleaning manual for the Hastings. Sure would help me out having the same stove and all ;-)

 

[BIG WATER]

The sears 5 or 6 hp are superior to most. The filter must be shook out for each cleaning

I let the stove cool down big time before vacuuming.

Wind North 25 mph. 30 degrees f. 6 foot waves. A springer Spaniel and a Newfoundland on the floor. Warm feet in front of the St. Croix.