Solar leasing (Sungevity)-how does it work?

[valuman]

If you Google "electricity duck curve" you will no doubt see the nature of the problem with solar PV generation. At 5pm (or a little later in the summer), the solar PV generation capacity drops off, but the demand stays constant from 5pm to 9pm. That is why there is a lot of focus now on some storage or demand-reducton capability, being driven (mainly) by new California and New York initiatives.

That's a shoulder season issue related to low demand where the solar generation added to base generation could create a situation where there's more power running into the grid than there is demand for that power. If that's going to occur, it would be in mid day during March/April when solar generation is good and before heavier cooling loads are placed on the grid. In late afternoon during those months, demand increases and there's enough load to consume all of the power from base and distributed generation and the issue goes away. As soon as the weather warms, the additional electricity is needed and appreciated by the utilities.

 

[DBoon]

Hi valuman, I'm not arguing that having lots of distributed solar is a good thing. But what you are stating above is not what reported data has found. Solar production is reduced 3-4 hours (or more) before baseload demand decreases in the evening. States with lots of solar production have issues with this transitional period since they have to fire up a lot of generation in a short period of time.

 

[woodgeek]

The 'duck' is not a huge issue yet, and will likely be addressed by grid storage solutions currently under development.

 

[valuman]

Hi valuman, I'm not arguing that having lots of distributed solar is a good thing. But what you are stating above is not what reported data has found. Solar production is reduced 3-4 hours (or more) before baseload demand decreases in the evening. States with lots of solar production have issues with this transitional period since they have to fire up a lot of generation in a short period of time.

Yes, that's right, the Duck is about base loads, not peak demand; it's important not to confuse the two issues.

Base load generation is not set up to be easily regulated so the coming concern is around the creation of more power during base load, or low demand conditions than there's a demand for out on the grid. Storage of the distributed generation from solar will be a big part of the solution for the base load demand, over production challenges.

Peak demand typically occurs during summer afternoons when solar is a benefit to the utilities with regard to reducing grid overload conditions and reducing the need to purchase additional power on the spot market or generate that power out on the grid using micro turbines that are purchased, installed, fueled and maintained by them at considerable cost.

 

[mass_burner]

I just wanted to update this thread. SolarCity installed our system this week and we are now waiting for the utility to install the net meter. I can't wait to start saving money. Our last electric bill was $588.

New burner, can you please update? I am contemplating solar city and would look appreciate the feedback.

 

[billb3]

No way would I lease .
It's tantamount to renting your roof in a rent-controlled environment that doesn't allow for rent increases or paying e-trade 50% of your investment earnings for 20 years.
I'd beg, borrow or steal ( OK, maybe not steal ) the funds to invest in the potential income of my own roof .

 

[mass_burner]

No way would I lease .
It's tantamount to renting your roof in a rent-controlled environment that doesn't allow for rent increases or paying e-trade 50% of your investment earnings for 20 years.
I'd beg, borrow or steal ( OK, maybe not steal ) the funds to invest in the potential income of my own roof .

But using your example, e-trade doesn't put up all your investment capital up front, do they.

 

[billb3]

But using your example, e-trade doesn't put up all your investment capital up front, do they.

They put my investment capital wherever I direct it and take their cut.
The only valid reason to be leasing is lack of investment capital.
Unless you really believe you can do better in the market than what your return is going to be on the panels in 10 and 20 years.
You might, you might not. I have and I haven't.
At least with a panel investment you know what the returns are going to be.
Unless you believe electricity is going to be cheap in the future...

 

[woodgeek]

Personally, I think a conservative bond/equity mix of index fund will easily beat solar, with acceptable risk. The major factor is that your principal does not depreciate with an investment, but the panels are salvage/replacement value only after 20-30 years.

Solar also has a finite risk that returns may decrease in the future from changes in net metering, or alternatively, saturation of PV at midday...driving the TOU rate during sunny weather to near zero.

 

[billb3]

there's zero risk the sun will come up tomorrow

will your index fund have one or more Enrons in it ?

 

[woodgeek]

Sounds like you are ready to do it!!

A well diversified index fund certainly will have some failing companies in it, but will track the overall economy anyway. That is the point.

 

[begreen]

there's zero risk the sun will come up tomorrow

will your index fund have one or more Enrons in it ?

The question is not whether the sun will come up, but whether there will be sunshine or clouds or winter shading.

 

[newburner]

New burner, can you please update? I am contemplating solar city and would look appreciate the feedback.

Sorry for the delay, I just saw this...

Everything is going great for me. We generated 1,405 kWh in April. I should have a zero bill from national grid.

We typically generate between 50-80 kWh per day on sunny days and about 20-30 on cloudy or rainy days. Its all good because our average daily consumption throughout the summer is around 20 so we will be banking credits all summer to use when the panels are covered with snow come winter.

I wouldn't do it different if I had to do it again. Even if I did have the money to purchase them, I probably wouldn't. After 20 years, I'm pretty confident that the panels will have cost us nothing after all the credits are factored in.

Also, most people will replace their aging roof before installing panels but I didn't have the money for that so I purposely did not re roof prior to install so I could use the savings to replace my roof.

 

[Brian26]

Anybody in CT have them? I get literally full sun all day. My roof is brand new and its orientated directly South. My neighbor has them and when someone was over from her solar company doing some checks they said to her to tell you neighbor they have the ideal setup and would generate almost all day.

 

[JP11]

Reading through this... one comment I'll make. Some might think that roof is penetrated in many places. it is not.

With my 48 panels, there is just ONE point of roof penetration. A small junction box that all the conductors go through. Install company warranties it, but said they have never had a leak yet. I would imagine they have it controlled pretty well with one small junction box that they seal the heck out of.

JP

 

[newburner]

they have the ideal setup and would generate almost all day.

I would hope so. My setup is less than ideal and they generate all day every day, rain or shine. The only time they haven't is when they are covered with more than 2" of snow.

 

[mass_burner]

What about resale if home, I heard the solar company needs "to approve" the buyer- whatever that means. My daughter has a friend that's moving to CA, they just got panels last year, so I'm watching their situation carefully.

 

[peakbagger]

There have been several posts regarding this provision in equipment leases when homes are sold. It potentially delays to the sale and can be turn off to a buyer.

The cynic in me feels its a backdoor way of the leasing company forcing an owner to buy out the lease if its no longer a financial advantage to the leasing company

 

[billb3]

The question is not whether the sun will come up, but whether there will be sunshine .

Daylight too ?

 

[CaptSpiff]

Reading through this... one comment I'll make. Some might think that roof is penetrated in many places. it is not.

With my 48 panels, there is just ONE point of roof penetration. A small junction box that all the conductors go through. JP

You must have a metal roof. How did they attach the rails?

 

[JP11]

I take your point.. I believe they took a screw out and re used my same holes. I never looked. It's a long way up!