So this is what I was told today
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I am truly sorry to hear about the hurt all of you in the midwest are going through at the moment due to the propane shortage. From what you guys are saying on here and from what I've been reading in the news it seems like there may be some families in the midwest that are going to be faced with some very tough choices pretty soon such as "do we pay for heat or food today." That's a damn shame.
Being a New Englander that has never used propane for heat I'm curious what the normal price of propane has been for you over the past several years. Until this year I've always heated with oil. Oil in New Hampshire/southern Maine has ranged from 3.49 - 3.99 per gallon over the past several years and right now in my area seems to be hovering around 3.69 - 3.79.
If there is any positive that can come from the propane shortage/unusually cold winter this year hopefully people will be pushed to educate themselves about the air sealing and insulation within their home. We on this website know how costly poor and or insufficient insulation and air sealing can be but it seems like the average person thinks "oh it's cold outside and oil or propane is expensive so it is what it is and there's nothing I can do about it." From everything I've read I've learned that the vast majority of homes in this nation would actually benefit significantly from improvements, sometimes very small and cost effective improvements, with regard to insulation and air sealing.
Being a New Englander that has never used propane for heat I'm curious what the normal price of propane has been for you over the past several years. Until this year I've always heated with oil. Oil in New Hampshire/southern Maine has ranged from 3.49 - 3.99 per gallon over the past several years and right now in my area seems to be hovering around 3.69 - 3.79.
If there is any positive that can come from the propane shortage/unusually cold winter this year hopefully people will be pushed to educate themselves about the air sealing and insulation within their home. We on this website know how costly poor and or insufficient insulation and air sealing can be but it seems like the average person thinks "oh it's cold outside and oil or propane is expensive so it is what it is and there's nothing I can do about it." From everything I've read I've learned that the vast majority of homes in this nation would actually benefit significantly from improvements, sometimes very small and cost effective improvements, with regard to insulation and air sealing.
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In Michigan I had a Shell tank, which became Amerigas, and paid anywhere from $1.50 - 2.69 a gallon between 2004 and 2012. We moved, so I have a different supplier now. The summertime price was $1.65/gal which I thought was great, last fill was $2.50 a gallon in late December, and I don't want to know what it is currently.
Just heard today that it is getting hard to even get in some areas of WI. People are starting to offer more money to suppliers to move to top of the list......
gg
gg
Last year, we paid $2.80/gal for propane and now its up to $3.50-3.60. Switching to the Biowin pellet boiler is going to save us over $2,300 this year when compared to propane.
I grew up in the midwest and I'm very empathetic to what they're going through. No one wants to turn down the temp and be cold to eek out a few more days of heat because they can't get a refill, or start making sacrifices in other areas like food because of soaring fuel prices.
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Price around here also depends on how much you use. Gas stove, gas dryer, Only using 250 gal a yr your looking at $5 a gal in the summer. So back up heat if propain is not the best.
Some of the dealers around here started pulling that a few years ago. Had my tank swapped the next day when they told me that.
Kind of like kind of like paying more for gas to put in your lawn mower because you don't buy as much as a car.....
gg
Coal Reaper
Minister of Fire
We have scads of former oil burners here proudly chanting the "get off oil" battle cry. I guess we can add some "get off LPG" folks by next year. One drawback they both have in common is ,someone besides the homeowner controls the price and also the supply.
It actually makes sense to me, So I don't mind it. They have to pay a driver, fuel and the truck for say $300 fill up, when for the same time and expense other than the LP and get $1,000. I bought a couple 100# tanks and just bring them to tsc for a fill up. About 1/2 the price $2.79.
martyinmi
Member
I wonder if it would be legal to sell propane either back to your supplier or a private party if you had contracted 1200 gallons but were on pace to go through less than 600?
One of my friends contracted @ $1.89. Could he could legally sell it and double his money?
One of my friends contracted @ $1.89. Could he could legally sell it and double his money?
I'm in Southern NJ, a buddy of mine paid $5.50 a gallon for 100 gallons of propane today... Natural gas isn't an option, we're too far out in the country, not profitable for the gas companies to run the lines out here... Thank god for my coal boiler, LOL.
The issue as I understand it is not so much that the wholesale market price has gone up. (only $.50+/- since October according to the chart) It's that supplies in the area affected by the c-c-c-c-cold weather are non existent. Additional inventory has to be brought in from long distances away and this adds substantially to the cost.
Coming back from an Ohio delivery yesterday traveling I-75 and US23, I saw numerous LP tankers headed north. License plates on the trucks/trailers were from all over the US as far away as Texas. I passed 6 different tankers in the stretch between Ann Arbor and Flint. 2 others in a real hurry passed me!
Just got off the phone with a driver for one of the LP companies in these parts. Their customer base is well into the thousands and right now they have 2 weeks supply of gas. They are hoping that with all the states declaring emergencies that transport restrictions will be lifted and they can build some stock again. He said they are not price shopping at all but buying it where ever they can and at whatever price it is.
Price has gone down $0.55 since Thursday with one supplier in our area. It may be due to the governors' meeting yesterday. There is also talk in the legislature about temporarily easing weight restrictions 20-30% to help transportation.
They're not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. The extra cost will get passed along to the consumer. It always does, whatever the product.
Sure they are doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. I do all my work like that, for a price! But really, what LP guys take as new customers is a favor, they are vey busy now. Guess who will pick up new orders next fall?There are some people out there that just plain . care. Also, people need to get propane in the summer time and have enough for a cold winter. Noone here goes to their wood pile and say,, " hey I only have a few more logs left". I am keeping the house a bit cooler this year cause I could run out . I was not expecting anything like this . -17F this morning. It is amazing how much less gas a house uses if ya just go down 5 degrees and put a 40W heat pad under your butt while on the couch like my wife does. Way cheaper than turning up the heat.
It makes no sense to me because the quantity of the fill wasn't the issue. It was that I use less than 500 gallons for the year. The fill was no different than any other customer. Actually, I would call when it was needed vs a customer being on keep full plan who would get less per delivery.
gg
There have been local news reports of a wood shortage also. Local firewood dealers are getting on the band wagon. One guy is up to $300 for oak that is being split now that has sat in log form for one year. His ad says " probably won't find better wood this time of year".
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
If I were burning LP for heat (or oil for that matter) and I was not able to get a delivery and was in fear of running out of fuel. I'd be buying up some electric heaters. Save the LP for hot water, use simple electric resistance for heat. Turn the (electric) burners on and the oven with the oven door open.
TS
TS
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
Same thing here, You'd think it would be the amount of fuel they deliver. If you own your own tank, and only have it filled every three years, who cares. 800 gal is 800 gal, one delivery one cash payment.
I went out and bought two 100# cylinders. These last me about 18 months, for cooking and clothes drying. I drop them off at a friend's house who owns a hunting camp and has countless 100# cylinders and uses 3000+ gallons/year. The gas supplier just fills mine with all of his, and I write him out a check for the cheap price. $2/gal last July, when I called the same company and asked how much it would be to fill my two tanks they quoted me over $4/gal....... Now who is the wiser?
TS
For a few years I had a Electric plenum heater in my lp forced air furnace. The power company put it in for free and it was on load management on its own meter. Because of that the electric price was 1/2 the normal price. When I put in the wood boiler I removed it. I do still have it and all the stuff needed for it. The meter fees and power cost adjustments made it more sense to burn lp when the priced dropped. Well look at the lp price now........
I just put in a new lp water heater, kind of wishing I would have went with electric. Well maybe it will push me to get wood boiler DHW hooked up.
gg
BillsWS
Feeling the Heat
Bill, my buddies daughter just got 100 gallons Friday (max she could get) and paid $5.69/gallon ... plus 6% sales tax !! That will last her about 10 days maximum, probably less with -20F temps coming in tonite and lasting the next 3 days at least. This is already causing financial hardship for a lot of people and winter is only 1/2 over. Some places in the western U.P. are charging over $6/gallon....
When I see situations like this I remind myself that all the work I do to collect and process my firewood is definitely worth the effort. I can't imagine having to spend $6-8K on propane to heat my house for the winterYikes !
BTW, where are you in 'da U.P.?
Pat
Hello Pat,
Sorry, I haven't been on in awhile. I live 10 miles south of Marquette. Usually 3 - 10 degrees colder out here away from the lake (summer its warmer though). Still working through the gasser inside or the conventional (Portage & Main) boiler outside. I cut down my propane usage 61 gallons last month as I am running my BK Sirocco 24/7 now. I am going to pull out my DHW tankless propane fired boiler that has been sporacially giving me trouble and put in an electric water heater. I am fortunate to be on the city of Marquette owned power grid with low kwh prices. In the winter of course DHW will be wood fired. But for summer use, electric will be more consistent. I do enjoy C/S/S firewood, so no hardship for me there either. It IS WORTH it. I have a quote up on my mirror that I copied out of a book on meditations and seeking enlightenment years ago: "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood and carry water"
Bill
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