So, The Submersible Well Pump Took A Dump...

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Lake Girl said:
If the line is galvanized, you should plan on replacing it. Likely a fairly old install on the well. Don't want to panic you but you may want to get water tested ... old lines like that have been known to leech lead into water supply depending on water ph. With high demand of refilling pool, it will clear out many sediments. Problem may arise with lower water flows.

Should be able to locate with metal detector depending on how deep it is buried and should lead you right to the well. Can you locate where the old "cess pool" is so you have another data point?
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Whoa now. First, there is no lead in galvanized iron pipe. The galvanized coating is zinc and this pipe is not a source of lead contamination.

https://www.dcwater.com/waterquality/plumbing/faq.cfm

Don't worry about lead on a residential system unless you have or had actual lead pipes in your system.

Now, copper is still often used outside in the dirt. It comes in rolls and some cities require it. Most have switched to polyethylene now which is a wonderful product for your underground runs. Unlike copper, it can't corrode. Do not use PVC, it is undesirable. It gets brittle and fractures. Also do not use galvanized iron outside of the well.

For wells it is still VERY common to use galvanized iron for the downhole pipe. We still use it. 20 foot sticks of 1.25" pipe with threaded couplers. Shallower wells, less than 250 feet deep or so, we use the same polyethylene flexible pipe as we use in the dirt for the downhole pipe. PVC in inferior for this application as well.

So even though the pipe from the well to the house is copper, there may be galvanized pipe in the well. All is modern and could have been installed last week.
 
lml999 said:
Uh oh. We just moved into a 22 year old house...with a 22 year old well. I learned today that the pump in the basement was replaced 2 years ago. Wonder what else I have in store... :)
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That's a good thing. You should have 20 years of pump life left! If the pump is IN the basement then it is probably one of those shallow well jet pumps. Cheap and easy to replace.
 
Highbeam said:
Whoa now. First, there is no lead in galvanized iron pipe. The galvanized coating is zinc and this pipe is not a source of lead contamination.
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http://phys.org/news/2015-07-source-galvanized-steel-pipe-coatings.html
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ees.2015.0073?journalCode=ees Actual study can be downloaded for $51.

From what I understand, over time the galvanization does break down and the allows for leachate containing lead. Lead is actually used in the galvanization process but "lead-free" options are out there but still contain trace amounts. Not all galvanization is equal... Obviously, water sources that had lead service lines at one time have a higher likelihood but the above study also shows it can come from the galvanized pipe itself.
 
Lake Girl said:
http://phys.org/news/2015-07-source-galvanized-steel-pipe-coatings.html
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ees.2015.0073?journalCode=ees Actual study can be downloaded for $51.

From what I understand, over time the galvanization does break down and the allows for leachate containing lead. Lead is actually used in the galvanization process but "lead-free" options are out there but still contain trace amounts. Not all galvanization is equal... Obviously, water sources that had lead service lines at one time have a higher likelihood but the above study also shows it can come from the galvanized pipe itself.
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Read carefully. Both references call it a potential "long term source" of lead which means it is not significant. Trace amounts of lead may be found in some of the zinc alloy on some of the pipes. This may be a case of internet research and finding agenda bias from questionable sources.

Doorknobs can have more lead than a galvy pipe.
 
in some cases there could be higher trace amounts in the water itself depending on the geological make up. Same with the Radon craze now. Course ya never get a real straight answer on what ever they are doing to muncipal water systems.
 
Highbeam, you obviously have your own beliefs but that is why I posted the source article that was published in Environmental Engineering Science. August 2015. The journal has been around since 2000 and published by Mary Ann Liebert and is the journal of the Association of Environmental Engineering and Science Professors . Research Gates's impact rating is 1.62. Not as high as other journals but it is a fairly new journal in comparison.

These same authors published this article on profile sampling on lead in potable water which calls into question the regulatory presumption that the worst lead levels are found on first draw on low flow rates. Apparently they found higher levels of lead during high flow rates. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es501342j The Environmental Science & Technology journal is published by the American Chemical Society since 1967 and has a 5.03 impact rating.

Sheldon Masters PhD, one of the authors, works for ESPRI and is involved in this along with Clark: http://flintwaterstudy.org/about-page/about-us/ Marc Edwards is a prof at Virginia Tech. Brandi Clark is a postdoctoral fellow at the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Interesting read: (broken link removed)

Their latest findings makes me realize I need to let my kids in Thunder Bay know they have to monitor their water as the city is planning on using additives to change the water ph there to deal with lead level findings:(
http://www.liebertpub.com/global/pr...drinking-water-may-have-opposite-effect/1671/

Anyway, in their research, they traced the zinc and cadmium concentrations in the galvanizing coating of their pipe to "finger print" the lead origin ... lead concentrations ranged from non-detectable to 2% and appear to be linked to manufacturer and water ph. They were able to document the source of lead contamination as the galvanized pipe ...
 
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Depends on the galvanizing, biomass boilers that burn pallets made with galvanized nails end up having issues with lead. Apparently lead is cheaper than zinc so cheap galvanizing has lead added to it to reduce the cost.
 
Update, still haven't had time to look for the well cover, but the well company suggested using a metal rod to shove into the ground to hear a sound rather than the metal detector...
 
mwhitnee said:
Update, still haven't had time to look for the well cover, but the well company suggested using a metal rod to shove into the ground to hear a sound rather than the metal detector...
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Sounds sort of like how septic system components are located.
 
Update, the previous owner finally told me where the well was.

It is an artesian well, 140 ft deep. It is about 15-20 feet away from the back of my house, covered with a plastic top and oak boards. The pump was replaced not too long ago. If this location is correct, the map I had of the location was completely off!!

I will poke around in the spring and find it. Any thoughts on the artesian well? I live right across the street from a lake.

I'm so glad he got back to me. Honestly he wasn't very nice during the sale. I thought it was somewhere else in the back yard so it was a big help...
 
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Distance/time between the sale and now allows a cooling off period. Possible he didn't want to sell the house but had little choice (variety of reasons) and has now reconciled the sale. Glad he got back to you:)
 
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Now that you have it narrowed down, keep a steady eye out in the area during the spring. Inevitably the well casing is just a bit warmer than the surrounding ground and frequently the trench was backfilled with different soil. Quite often the frost line will be different between the old soil and the new soil and you may see a bump or a depression in the soil during a thaw that will give you a good idea where the line is. If the area is iced up you may see a melt spot that appears directly over the well casing.

If the well line is plastic, about the only way that works to locate it close to 100% is to cut the line at the house and slide a copper or metal wire down it and then use a radio frequency based detector in what is called conductive mode. If the line is metal, typical pipe locators are used in what is called inductive mode where they blast a signal into the ground at known location with one box and hope the signal follows the metal but it doesn't work with plastic pipes very well it at all. Most well installers laid the cables in the trench and if you can clip onto the ground wire (with the circuit disconnected that works just as well.

I did about five years of summers in college locating water lines for a utility so I got a lot of experience seeing what worked and what didn't. The new detectors have fancy displays and all sorts of options but they really work the same way as our M-scope which is still sold (broken link removed to http://www.kellycodetectors.com/catalog/tw-6-pipe-cable-locator). We frequently got asked to trace sewer lines to septic systems and the only way it worked was to slide some metal down the pipe. The other method is if you know a surveyor ask to use his metal detector. They use a very sensitive detector for finding survey pins. A well casing has a significant magnetic signature that extends well past the actual end of casing. A good metal detector can usually pick up something like a casing four or five feet deep.

Unless you have a hill behind your house odds are the well level is at the same level as the water in the lake. Nothing wrong with that but generally a real artesian well is tapped into an underground aquifer that is under pressure so that the water flows to the surface of the well. I have seen a few wells over the years like this where the area looks dry and level but when they drill the well there is steady flow pouring out of it. There is very impressive one in Stowe VT that flows year round and forms some real interesting ice formations
 
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A lot of people think they have Cartesian wells.
 
Highbeam said:
A lot of people think they have Cartesian wells.
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And
- the meaning of "artesian" is confused in the vernacular. Water does not necessarily have to come come out the top of the pipe to be artesian. The level the water comes to naturally just has to be above the top of the aquifer formation it came from.
- a well which once was artesian may longer be due to local groundwater removal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesian_aquifer
 
heck they werent recorded back when this place was built.. Original owners deceased.prob original drillers dead too
so we paid to have company come out and show us.
hubby got talked into a submersible pump.and they measured for us and took out old piping and another one that was there too...new piping installed too... but to house piping stayed
Heck with the old one ,PUMP I knew it was working. I could hear it.
it only had a small pressure tank too. like I mentioned everything in this place CHEAPSKATES....
DA next door replaced his septic piping with that cheap corrugated 4inch black pipe with a "stocking on"
But what can you expect from a neighbor that had an old toilet sitting near end of his driveway.? and BIG pile of trash and trash bags waiting to be burned. or buried... But least he was a nice young man....
I hope that when new septic was replaced here(looks like) some Jacklegs didnt use the same thing...:rolleyes::confused:
thanks all
 
peakbagger said:
Now that you have it narrowed down, keep a steady eye out in the area during the spring. Inevitably the well casing is just a bit warmer than the surrounding ground and frequently the trench was backfilled with different soil. Quite often the frost line will be different between the old soil and the new soil and you may see a bump or a depression in the soil during a thaw that will give you a good idea where the line is. If the area is iced up you may see a melt spot that appears directly over the well casing.

If the well line is plastic, about the only way that works to locate it close to 100% is to cut the line at the house and slide a copper or metal wire down it and then use a radio frequency based detector in what is called conductive mode. If the line is metal, typical pipe locators are used in what is called inductive mode where they blast a signal into the ground at known location with one box and hope the signal follows the metal but it doesn't work with plastic pipes very well it at all. Most well installers laid the cables in the trench and if you can clip onto the ground wire (with the circuit disconnected that works just as well.

I did about five years of summers in college locating water lines for a utility so I got a lot of experience seeing what worked and what didn't. The new detectors have fancy displays and all sorts of options but they really work the same way as our M-scope which is still sold (broken link removed to http://www.kellycodetectors.com/catalog/tw-6-pipe-cable-locator). We frequently got asked to trace sewer lines to septic systems and the only way it worked was to slide some metal down the pipe. The other method is if you know a surveyor ask to use his metal detector. They use a very sensitive detector for finding survey pins. A well casing has a significant magnetic signature that extends well past the actual end of casing. A good metal detector can usually pick up something like a casing four or five feet deep.

Unless you have a hill behind your house odds are the well level is at the same level as the water in the lake. Nothing wrong with that but generally a real artesian well is tapped into an underground aquifer that is under pressure so that the water flows to the surface of the well. I have seen a few wells over the years like this where the area looks dry and level but when they drill the well there is steady flow pouring out of it. There is very impressive one in Stowe VT that flows year round and forms some real interesting ice formations
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for all the info, I am really interested in finding and uncovering it. I'll take pictures.
 
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