smokey Fire

[Russo81]

Hey whats up everyone? Got a lil problem, i have a old fireplace insert, 1981 russo wood/coal, I live in a small ranch, I believe my chimney is 2 feet higher than the peak of the house. When i start a fire a majority of the time smoke comes in the house, not alot a little, but its enough to get that fire stink in the house and it last for a couple of days. I believe i have a good draft i can get a nice roaring fire going. on any day if i hold a thin piece of paper by the door it looks like its sucking it in the fire place, i dont know if thats a good way to test the draft, but thats all i got. The smoke usually comes in when im adding more wood after the kinling is flaming nice. My chimney has a little elbow in it just above the fireplace it hooks to the left and then is a strait run to the roof. If you guys have any ideas on how i can fix this problem i would apreciate your input.... thanks alot. Oh but once the fire is burning for like 1/2 hour no problems. I burning one now but i smell the smoke from earlier.

 

[jtp10181]

Could be damp wood. Could be negative pressure inside the house. Could be lots of things. You could try cracking a windows a few minutes before opening the door and adding more wood.

 

[Russo81]

no, I have nice dry kinling and good dry oak im burning, but my house was reinsulated and all new windows put in, so maybe i should try opening or cracking a window like you said... but once the fire gets going i can open the door with no problem.....No cap on chimney....that probably has nothing to do with it....i guess you can tell im new to fires, somedays i have no problems at all, other days i do. Not windy out or anything like that..... i have not had the chimney cleaned since i bought the house 2 years ago but i looked down it when i installed a satalite dish and it looked clean to me..

 

[jtp10181]

Here's something I have learned this winter. Everyone says they have good dry wood, even if its soaking wet. Anyway, that aside, if you have new windows and insulation done then your house may very well have a negative pressure problem. What other devices do you have in the house that exhaust air from it without replacing? Dryer? Bath Fans? Range hood? Water Heater? If there are not sufficient leaks in the house to replace the air the pressure in the house will become less that outside. Then if you have a cold flu because the fire is just starting and open the door, the house will use the chimney to replace the missing air in the house. If you crack a window open for a few minutes it should balance the pressure.

 

[Russo81]

ok, jtp, Ill give it a shot tomorrow night. acually there is a window about 6 feet next to the fire place, When i crack the window and start the fire i dont have to leave it cracked right? Once the fire gets going close it? Thanks for your help

 

[Corie]

Has the weather been warmer there?

Did you have this problem when it was really cold?


Sounds like you've got a negative pressure problem or a marginal draft problem. Try cracking the window first and report back to us. Do you have anything else in the house competeing for air? Bathroom exhaust fan? Kitchen range fan? Water heater draft fan? etc etc

 

[Russo81]

Ok ill let you know how i make out tomorrow, I have bathroom exhaust fans but never use them....and it has acually got alot warmer out durring the day 50's today and i guess it might have been alot colder when i didnt have a problem because that was a week ago and i was makeing nice fires whithout a prblem and learning how to burn coal.....when i crack the window do i leave it cracked the whole time im burning or for just a little while?

 

[jtp10181]

After the fire is going for about 5 minutes or so you should be able to close the window. Usually it is best to open a window across the room or even in the basement. Once the flu is good and hot the air will keep going up it even if the house is negative, its getting it going that is the problem in most cases.

 

[Russo81]

ok thanks.

 

[elkimmeg]

He has a ranch he did not indicate how he has his stove vented into what flue size. He only said his chimney extends 2' above his roof but did not provide the verticle heigh above the flue exit He also has an elbow or bend ,I willing to bet he has an exterior chimney.

I guessing here but here is what I suspect
one he he does not have a full liner and is using a direct connection into a fireplace flue
That will trigger in the cross-sectional code issues or venting into too large of an area
If using the fire place flue he did not mention any form of a block off plate
Low pithched roof ranches do not have adequate verticle height add in an elbow or two and he is probably too short in the verticle height requirement.

He is experiencing weak draft issues read all of the above. and that does not include any return vents, dryer vents. kitchen hoods or bath vents
all potentially remooving needed combustion air and creating negative pressure
His attic access is probably not draft stopped or weather stripped, so there is a huge pressure leakage there as well

Till we know more I am guessing

 

[restorer]

Does the fact that he can draw a flame to the door from the outside mean anything? Sounds like a draft issue when starting. If the stove gets started and the flue can't handle the smoke, does it bleed back to the room? I's seal the door, and start with smaller kindling and splits to get the draft going in the right direction.

 

[Russo81]

master, It is an exterier chimney, not sure what size flue....but the way i have it vented it...the insert slides into the fire place and i just have like a 4 inch by 12 inch square pipe that comes off the insert and is shoved through the existing fireplace damper.....probably not the right way to connect it...but like i said im new and will most likely have to change everything......i also have some high trees, alot higher than my chimney but they are about 20 feet from the house.....



uncle rich, it smokes when i open the glass door to add more wood, when i have the door shut the fire is blazin nice and i look through the glass and the flames are shouting toward the damper and everything looks good. then i open the door after a while and a nice puff comes in

 

[Russo81]

how can i test the draft?

 

[elkimmeg]

.but the way i have it vented it...the insert slides into the fire place and i just have like a 4 inch by 12 inch square pipe that comes off the insert and is shoved through the existing fireplace damper.....probably not the right way to connect it..

Guys its late, please help him and guide him in the right direction. This installation is far worse then I had originally imagined. I hope you have working carbon monoxide detectors.

Thank god it smoked and you posted here before it killed you.

 

[Russo81]

yeah, LOL my friend who gave me the insert said thats how he had it at his old house....Got a detector on in the same room.

 

[Corie]

The long and short of it is, you can't do what you're doing.



If you direct connect you need a block off plate. You probably should reline to the top. But for heaven's sake, at least get a well sealed block off plate in there and use stainless steel pipe from the stove through the block off plate.

 

[Hogwildz]

Agreed, direct connect is trouble & junk. I will say, I don't care what anyone says, if your opening door while kindling is going, you will get some minor back puffing in house, I get it here. I also believe the full draft is not in effect at that time. Its only when I have a cold start here. Also make sure you open the door slowly. But I think you will find many that back puff after a cold start and adding while the kindling is burning. Try putting a few small splits on top of the kindling, and let it burn to some nice hot coals, then open & add more. You will get much less maybe no back puffing then.

 

[Russo81]

ok, ill use a block off plate but how far should the pipe that comes off the back of the stove go up the chimney?

 

[Hogwildz]

ok, ill use a block off plate but how far should the pipe that comes off the back of the stove go up the chimney?

for safety? all the way up to cap, s.s. flex, or combo flex & rigid. Also if insulated makes it code rated for chimney fire protection.
Do it right, the life you save might be your families & your own. Is it really worth it to do the minimal?

 

[Russo81]

ok, im not going to start anymore fires this season....but id like to get this stove up and running....where can i get the pipe from.....hearth store or would home depot or something have it? and when sealing things like the plate can i use high heat silacone or do i have to use furnace cement

 

[keyman512us]

Get the block off plate...and do it before burning coal!
Once you get the plate...then we can talk.

 

[Hogwildz]

with your older insert& the rectangular outlet you will need a s.s. rectangular to round or oval adapter then a flex or rigid s.s. liner to top. Not sure if thy make these or not. You may have to stay with the direct connect until you upgrade to a newer insert. You def need the block off plate, use furnace cement around the stove outlet where it goes through the block off plate, and you can use RTV high temp 500° or 600° silicon around the block off plate perimeter where it meets the fireplace walls.
If the chimney has not been cleaned in two years, I highly suggest having it cleaned & inspected immediately, before burning another piece of wood!
Your older setup is going to be tougher to work with.

 

[berlin]

if you stop burning wood, and are burning only coal, you won't have to worry about any chimney fire concerns. then you could do a direct connect to the damper area, perhaps fabricate a decent steel plate, seal it well and be done. exterior chimney's often have trouble establishing draft, this is not uncommon. crack a window when starting, use a propane torch (no smoke/smell) to preheat the flue while the window is opened then add some paper and kindling quickly while the draft is going the right direction, then began establishing your fire. if you reline w/ stainless plan on doing another one in as soon as 5-15 years if you plan on burning coal (depending on what grade of stainless you get, 316ti is the best); clay will last for over 100 years w/high chlorine/sulfur coals, as is evidenced throughout much of europe.

 

[Corie]

To reiterate what Berlin said, please, at the very least install a tight fighting, well sealed block off plate!

 

[Russo81]

ok guys, thanks for the help....im not gonna use the fire untill fall....so by then i should have some money together to get this flex pipe kit.....i dont know how good it is so if anyone could take a look at this website duckefire i post i would apreciate it....i want to install the block off plate and i want to mybe go a couple of feet higher than the existing chimney with a cap. http://www.dukefire.com/ventinox.htm plus have the chimney cleaned.