Smoke with cat engaged - Chinook

[Diabel]

The reason why I was asking wether the cat was installed in factory, at dealer location or on site by the installer was because my installer was independent not from the dealer. He was a bit sloppy and potentially would have no idea that the cat needs to be wrapped before installing. Long shot since BKVP indicated all cats are installed in factory.

 

[Highbeam]

As I said, my memory on the combustors wasn't certain, but I can say with 100% confidence that my flame shields were removed prior to transport to my house. The guys delivering them even scratched their heads a few minutes, and so I cab clearly recall we conversed on it awhile, when I asked them which direction that flame shield should face when re-installed. They made some comment about the guy loading the stoves onto the truck being worried about it falling out and causing damage in the truck ride over, so I will believe you if you say they removed it at the store.

If I recall, I believe my pair of Ashfords were the very first BK 30's ever ordered by those guys in Kintersville. I remember them oogling the stoves, and being really impressed with them, actually seeming to be happy I gave them a chance to see their first pair of them. So, it's possible they removed these bits either out of an abundance of caution, or simple curiosity.

I cut the twine on my princess. New in box. There was no door so I wouldn’t call it fully assembled as tested. The ceramic cat was installed. Twine threaded through it and the flame shield.

 

[BKVP]

I cut the twine on my princess. New in box. There was no door so I wouldn’t call it fully assembled as tested. The ceramic cat was installed. Twine threaded through it and the flame shield.

I was referring to the combustor, gasketing, part of the question. Incidentally, emissions testing is done with no pedestal/legs etc. The doors have thermocouples all over them, and does stack, firebox, cat (front and back), flue collar etc.

Safety tests, to establish clearances are done on fully assembled stoves.

 

[Highbeam]

I was referring to the combustor, gasketing, part of the question. Incidentally, emissions testing is done with no pedestal/legs etc. The doors have thermocouples all over them, and does stack, firebox, cat (front and back), flue collar etc.

Safety tests, to establish clearances are done on fully assembled stoves.

With the door there were color/finish options so no surprise that the door was boxed separately.

For Thanksgiving we have a bunch of Seattle city slickers and their kids (my sister) coming over so the stove is cold. Feels weird but this is the first year with a heat pump. We will spark one up after everybody goes home!

 

[QuarryHouse]

Installed at factory. Make certain bypass is locked down, not just closed.

Some smoke does appear randomly. Mostly upon refueling and initial startup.

With Thanksgiving chaos and warmer temps I let the stove die out . Restarted last night and I pushed harder when closing the bypass. After some pressure there was a distinct clunk noise which I hadn't heard before. Although it was dark and I was looking with a headlamp, there appeared to be much less smoke than on the previous cold starts. Perhaps I didn't have the cat locked down into position.

 

[BKVP]

With Thanksgiving chaos and warmer temps I let the stove die out . Restarted last night and I pushed harder when closing the bypass. After some pressure there was a distinct clunk noise which I hadn't heard before. Although it was dark and I was looking with a headlamp, there appeared to be much less smoke than on the previous cold starts. Perhaps I didn't have the cat locked down into position.

While the manual is very detailed about the locking requirement, folks do miss that point of operation. Next time you clean the stack, you can wire brush the ramp of the bypass plate to remove any buildup as a result of not having been locked down. No harm done...

 

[Ashful]

With Thanksgiving chaos and warmer temps I let the stove die out . Restarted last night and I pushed harder when closing the bypass. After some pressure there was a distinct clunk noise which I hadn't heard before. Although it was dark and I was looking with a headlamp, there appeared to be much less smoke than on the previous cold starts. Perhaps I didn't have the cat locked down into position.

How much pressure? If it's requiring much more pressure than a 4 year old could apply, it's possible (actually, likely) there's some debris on the gasket, or the gasket isn't properly laid. There should be a distinct detent as you feel the cam roll past top dead center, but it should by no means take a lot of force. More like pushing your finger into a firm mattress, than pulling on a wrench.

Since I sweep bottom-up thru the bypass door, this is how I know if I missed some crud when vacuuming out the cat chamber from below. The bypass will be noticeably difficult to "cam over", if I don't get the bypass door gasket clean of debris after sweeping.

 

[Diabel]

How much pressure? If it's requiring much more pressure than a 4 year old could apply, it's possible (actually, likely) there's some debris on the gasket, or the gasket isn't properly laid. There should be a distinct detent as you feel the cam roll past top dead center, but it should by no means take a lot of force. More like pushing your finger into a firm mattress, than pulling on a wrench.

Since I sweep bottom-up thru the bypass door, this is how I know if I missed some crud when vacuuming out the cat chamber from below. The bypass will be noticeably difficult to "cam over", if I don't get the bypass door gasket clean of debris after sweeping.

This is good information! Thank you.
My last sweep was bottom up via the bypass as well. I vacuumed as well as I could with a reduced small soft hose. I ran my fingers on the bypass gasket to make sure it is snug and there is no obstructions. After the clean, on my first fire, when I went to close the bypass the cam hardly closed. The previous distinct “click” was not there. I used the stove that way that weekend. Next weekend on the cold stove I again ran my fingers on the gasket and felt nothing, just smooth gasket. Fired up and when closing the bypass I felt the click better. Two reloads later the bypass was closing correctly. You could feel the cam shut. It is still not perfect but much better. (Not like when it was new).

 

[BKVP]

How much pressure? If it's requiring much more pressure than a 4 year old could apply, it's possible (actually, likely) there's some debris on the gasket, or the gasket isn't properly laid. There should be a distinct detent as you feel the cam roll past top dead center, but it should by no means take a lot of force. More like pushing your finger into a firm mattress, than pulling on a wrench.

Since I sweep bottom-up thru the bypass door, this is how I know if I missed some crud when vacuuming out the cat chamber from below. The bypass will be noticeably difficult to "cam over", if I don't get the bypass door gasket clean of debris after sweeping.

If it hasn't been locked down. the build up is most likely on the ramp itself. That is why you would want to clean it during next chimney sweeping....and what kind of 4 year olds are you raising!

 

[BKVP]

This is good information! Thank you.
My last sweep was bottom up via the bypass as well. I vacuumed as well as I could with a reduced small soft hose. I ran my fingers on the bypass gasket to make sure it is snug and there is no obstructions. After the clean, on my first fire, when I went to close the bypass the cam hardly closed. The previous distinct “click” was not there. I used the stove that way that weekend. Next weekend on the cold stove I again ran my fingers on the gasket and felt nothing, just smooth gasket. Fired up and when closing the bypass I felt the click better. Two reloads later the bypass was closing correctly. You could feel the cam shut. It is still not perfect but much better. (Not like when it was new).

You can follow the instructions in the manual and increase the tension very, very slightly! We never recommend more than 1/4 or 1/2 clockwise turn of the bolt....

 

[Ashful]

....and what kind of 4 year olds are you raising!

I guess the kids were at church last time you stopped by...

 

[stoveliker]

The spitting image - when his dad was still hand splitting 30 cords ... 🤣

 

[QuarryHouse]

How much pressure? If it's requiring much more pressure than a 4 year old could apply, it's possible (actually, likely) there's some debris on the gasket, or the gasket isn't properly laid. There should be a distinct detent as you feel the cam roll past top dead center, but it should by no means take a lot of force. More like pushing your finger into a firm mattress, than pulling on a wrench.

Since I sweep bottom-up thru the bypass door, this is how I know if I missed some crud when vacuuming out the cat chamber from below. The bypass will be noticeably difficult to "cam over", if I don't get the bypass door gasket clean of debris after sweeping.

I do not feel a detent at top dead center at all - the handle moves smoothly all the way to, say, 2 o'clock or so. At that point, if I press on it, it moves forward to maybe 3 o'clock with a "clunk". Stove is brand new with maybe 2 weeks worth of 24x7 burn time. I don't think there was debris originally at least but I'll check next time I let the fire die. I can't assess the precise newtons a four year old can apply vs a firm mattress resists but I wasn't leaning on the handle to get it to clunk.

 

[BKVP]

I do not feel a detent at top dead center at all - the handle moves smoothly all the way to, say, 2 o'clock or so. At that point, if I press on it, it moves forward to maybe 3 o'clock with a "clunk". Stove is brand new with maybe 2 weeks worth of 24x7 burn time. I don't think there was debris originally at least but I'll check next time I let the fire die. I can't assess the precise newtons a four year old can apply vs a firm mattress resists but I wasn't leaning on the handle to get it to clunk.

Your description is perfect. So no need to clean anything at this point. I do think we should clone Ashful's 4 year old for wood splitters!

 

[QuarryHouse]

Your description is perfect. So no need to clean anything at this point. I do think we should clone Ashful's 4 year old for wood splitters!

Great. Next question: I now have to turn the t-stat all the way around to almost 2 o'clock to get WOT and turning it back to say 9 o'clock I hear the damper close. Is this the set screw issue I've read about elsewhere? Given it's new, should I have the dealer tackle this? It's a Chinook 20.2

I'm traveling for work this week and my wife successfully hot reloaded this morning. She absolutely loves waking up to a warm house with a fire still running. if I can get the t-stat reset I think I'll be a hero for a month.

 

[Ashful]

BKVP will probably give the correct answer, but if it's like the 30.1, the t'stat is wide open at 6 o'clock position. You will usually hear it click closed around 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock, depending on the temperature of the stove at that moment in time. So, the useable range on a 30.1 is roughly 3 o'clock to 6 o'clock, on the dial.

 

[BKVP]

Great. Next question: I now have to turn the t-stat all the way around to almost 2 o'clock to get WOT and turning it back to say 9 o'clock I hear the damper close. Is this the set screw issue I've read about elsewhere? Given it's new, should I have the dealer tackle this? It's a Chinook 20.2

I'm traveling for work this week and my wife successfully hot reloaded this morning. She absolutely loves waking up to a warm house with a fire still running. if I can get the t-stat reset I think I'll be a hero for a month.

The effective range of motion is different than actual operating range. If we are looking at a clock face, depending upon your draft, you would be low at 2:30 and high at 6.

Turning it ccw past 2:30 does not change anything and is normal.

 

[Highbeam]

Great. Next question: I now have to turn the t-stat all the way around to almost 2 o'clock to get WOT and turning it back to say 9 o'clock I hear the damper close. Is this the set screw issue I've read about elsewhere? Given it's new, should I have the dealer tackle this? It's a Chinook 20.2

I'm traveling for work this week and my wife successfully hot reloaded this morning. She absolutely loves waking up to a warm house with a fire still running. if I can get the t-stat reset I think I'll be a hero for a month.

As long as turning the knob full clockwise it stops hard pointing straight down then there is no adjustment needed.

 

[BKVP]

As long as turning the knob full clockwise it stops hard pointing straight down then there is no adjustment needed.

Even then, it likely due to a loose set screw in the thermostat knob. Easy fix.

 

[Nealm66]

Weird, I never see any smoke except during reloading. I do see steam some early cold mornings for a while after I’ve had it set but it’s obvious steam and disappears quickly. I’ve been burning some cotton wood from a tree that blew over but no difference in smoke. Doesn’t last as long as fir. Maybe there is a leak in the seal of the cat? Never seen my cat half glowing either

 

[TheElementalCashew]

The effective range of motion is different than actual operating range. If we are looking at a clock face, depending upon your draft, you would be low at 2:30 and high at 6.

Turning it ccw past 2:30 does not change anything and is normal.

My Princess seems to operate a bit differently than this. It runs full blast at 6, and I turn it down to about 2 to run low. However, usually a few hours into the burn the stove keeps getting hotter and hotter, and if I back the knob down to about 11, I can visually see the air cut off in the stove and it dies down.
Makes me wonder if the automatic part of the thermostat isn't working properly on my stove. Is there a way to check it proper operation? Its worth noting that I have a manometer hooked to my stove, and use a key damper to keep my draft around -0.05" WC.

 

[BKVP]

My Princess seems to operate a bit differently than this. It runs full blast at 6, and I turn it down to about 2 to run low. However, usually a few hours into the burn the stove keeps getting hotter and hotter, and if I back the knob down to about 11, I can visually see the air cut off in the stove and it dies down.
Makes me wonder if the automatic part of the thermostat isn't working properly on my stove. Is there a way to check it proper operation? Its worth noting that I have a manometer hooked to my stove, and use a key damper to keep my draft around -0.05" WC.

Not at all. If your particular install has sufficient draft .04 or higher at 11:00, you can burn there and not stall the cat, good job. But you should also make certain additional combustion air isn't getting in via, door seal, glass seal, bypass closed and locked etc. And when you say stove gets hotter, are you referencing that cat thermometer? If so, that is also completely normal as residence time is being increased.

My neighbor can run at 1 o'clock on his King, but he has 27' of chimney, a leaky house etc.

I can run at 2, but stall lower than that...and when it gets below 20F, it's easier to run low.

 

[Ashful]

My Princess seems to operate a bit differently than this. It runs full blast at 6, and I turn it down to about 2 to run low. However, usually a few hours into the burn the stove keeps getting hotter and hotter, and if I back the knob down to about 11, I can visually see the air cut off in the stove and it dies down.
Makes me wonder if the automatic part of the thermostat isn't working properly on my stove. Is there a way to check it proper operation? Its worth noting that I have a manometer hooked to my stove, and use a key damper to keep my draft around -0.05" WC.

I have no experience on this, but reason tells me that drawing cold air in thru an outside air kit should cause a behavior similar to this, essentially causing the spring to open the damper more than the same knob position if drawing in warm room air. So, if you have an OAK, this might explain the difference in your setting for a given burn rate, versus mine. I'm drawing in extremely warm air, since my stoves are stuffed back into a fireplace, the stone work of which heats up over time and keeps the entire rig very warm.

Either way, no problem... you just have more swing to allow for finer tuning, than those of us without.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Not at all. If your particular install has sufficient draft .04 or higher at 11:00, you can burn there and not stall the cat, good job. But you should also make certain additional combustion air isn't getting in via, door seal, glass seal, bypass closed and locked etc. And when you say stove gets hotter, are you referencing that cat thermometer? If so, that is also completely normal as residence time is being increased.

My neighbor can run at 1 o'clock on his King, but he has 27' of chimney, a leaky house etc.

I can run at 2, but stall lower than that...and when it gets below 20F, it's easier to run low.

The cat would definitely stall at 11 if I left it there.

I recently replaced the door seal and it passes the dollar bill test at all points. The window seal seems good (window doesn't move around anyways) and the bypass clicks into place fully.

By hotter, I mean the firebox fills with flames and continues to burn more and more, while physically putting out more heat from the stove. The thermometer stays pretty much right where it is, typically in the second half of the active zone somewhere.
If I turn back the thermostat to 11, it will almost immediately snuff out the flames in the firebox. I typically leave it there for some time to cool down, then start incrementally turning it back until I arrive at 2 again. To me, that seems to indicate that the flapper must be more open to allow more air in, but I could be wrong.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

I have no experience on this, but reason tells me that drawing cold air in thru an outside air kit should cause a behavior similar to this, essentially causing the spring to open the damper more than the same knob position if drawing in warm room air. So, if you have an OAK, this might explain the difference in your setting for a given burn rate, versus mine. I'm drawing in extremely warm air, since my stoves are stuffed back into a fireplace, the stone work of which heats up over time and keeps the entire rig very warm.

Either way, no problem... you just have more swing to allow for finer tuning, than those of us without.

No OAK here, just normal warm air from around the stove.

I don't seem to have more adjustment, if I turn down below ~2, the cat will stall. But if I leave the firebox raging at 2 once it hits that point, the house will be 85* and the wood will have burnt out by 1am.

Just seems odd to me, based on what I've read here. My workaround as mentioned above is to just snuff the fire at 11 for a bit, then slowly turn back to 2. After that it seems to run ok, though I've never gotten better than 12-15 hours of burn time on a full load of wood. This generally works with my schedule so I can't complain too much, but it would be nice to be more "set it and forget it".