Smoke alarms/heat detectors - possible scam

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tadmaz

Minister of Fire
Dec 21, 2017
500
Erin, WI
My wife was at the county fair and got suckered in at a booth for smoke alarms and heat sensors. In the end we have had some folks over to the house, and when it came to the pricing I couldn't believe it. ~$340 per smoke alarm/heat sensor. Has anyone heard of "Detech"? The sales company is TruSense. They seem to be a local company to my location, out of Saukville, WI. The owner was just at my house. They say that ionization and photocell smoke alarms "don't really work" especially for a slowly smoldering fire. Their heat sensors they say work for places where it doesn't make sense to have a battery operated smoke alarm (garage, attic). Their smoke alarms have an optical sensor, and two other sensors in the smoke chamber. The smoke chamber is removable and cleanable and the units are warrantied for 20 years. They use lithium batteries that looked approx C size and supposedly last 10 years. He had a massive book of family pictures and testimonials from other customers. Minimum coverage would be approx 6 devices, full coverage would be 11! :) Do 6 x $340...I am very skeptical.

I need to do something about my old (1992 and 2003) smoke alarms upstairs, and possibly add some in other areas. I know I should at least do something. In the vaulted ceiling living room where my insert is, what would be good placement for a smoke alarm? What really works for smoke alarms/heat sensors? Is this Detech stuff super awesome and everything at a big box store is junk? Is there a proven smoke detection technology/brand that I should stick with? Thanks in advance.
 
Yes, sound like a scam, similar to the overpriced Eden Pure room heaters or expensive gutter filters. What's wrong with using a high end First Alert detector with a lithium battery? Maybe model SA320CN? Heck, even the very full featured Nest smoke and CO detector is only $115 and it will alert your cell phone when you are not at home, and it does self-diagnostics and reports them to you including low battery. It comes with lithium batteries too.
 
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Here is some more evidence of a scam.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2015/sure-signal-products-recalls-heat-activated-fire-alarms
Note, that masterguard (video below) and detech use sure signal products. It's like MLM, multi-level marketing. Here is a masterguard video:
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If there are any other brands/models that you folks recommend that would be appreciated.
 
My wife was at the county fair and got suckered in at a booth for smoke alarms and heat sensors. In the end we have had some folks over to the house, and when it came to the pricing I couldn't believe it. ~$340 per smoke alarm/heat sensor. Has anyone heard of "Detech"? The sales company is TruSense. They seem to be a local company to my location, out of Saukville, WI. The owner was just at my house. They say that ionization and photocell smoke alarms "don't really work" especially for a slowly smoldering fire. Their heat sensors they say work for places where it doesn't make sense to have a battery operated smoke alarm (garage, attic). Their smoke alarms have an optical sensor, and two other sensors in the smoke chamber. The smoke chamber is removable and cleanable and the units are warrantied for 20 years. They use lithium batteries that looked approx C size and supposedly last 10 years. He had a massive book of family pictures and testimonials from other customers. Minimum coverage would be approx 6 devices, full coverage would be 11! :) Do 6 x $340...I am very skeptical.

I need to do something about my old (1992 and 2003) smoke alarms upstairs, and possibly add some in other areas. I know I should at least do something. In the vaulted ceiling living room where my insert is, what would be good placement for a smoke alarm? What really works for smoke alarms/heat sensors? Is this Detech stuff super awesome and everything at a big box store is junk? Is there a proven smoke detection technology/brand that I should stick with? Thanks in advance.

I know all about this company . . . they're all over the country and pop up from time to time on my proverbial radar when a resident will call me up to ask my opinion.

And this is what it is . . . an opinion . . . mind you a professional opinion based on fact based research from a variety of sources such as the NFPA, Factory Mutual, etc. . . . not to mention a couple decades of experience.

Random thoughts . . .

Their products are OK. By this I mean if someone buys one of their detectors it most likely will not melt down and cause a fire and will most likely detect a fire. However, if one knows where to go, you can generally buy similar products for significantly less money if one is so inclined.

Around here one tactic I have seen them employ is to invite folks to a free dinner or you put your contact information into a bucket as you're leaving your favorite restaurant to "win" a chance for a free dinner (everybody wins . . . not so surprisingly). They then attempt to manipulate the truth by using half truths or withholding information . . . at one of these seminars I found myself thinking "What they're saying sounds right, but wait a minute, they forgot to mention X."

My biggest gripe with them is partly in using half truths, but mostly in the use of scare tactics in trying to convince folks that conventional smoke detectors are no good and unless you buy their "state of the art" detectors you are putting your life in jeopardy. The truth is we have hard evidence in both the research labs and real life incidents where smoke detectors have been proven to save lives . . . can they be improved upon . . . certainly . . . and they are (hence the use of talking smoke detectors as research has shown that many young children sleep through and do not respond to what most of us find an ear piercing shriek, wireless interconnected smoke detectors, smoke detectors with silencers to reduce the likelihood of someone permanently disabling their smoke detector and work on reducing false alarms.) However, I am not convinced that this company has the end-all, be-all detectors.

When I first encountered them early in my career they had the exact same song and dance . . . except they were peddling their heat detectors, even though research has shown that a) it is the smoke and products of combustion in the smoke that kill most people in a fire and b) smoke detectors -- regardless of type -- when maintained and installed in the recommended areas provide adequate warning.

As mentioned, as a professional Fire and Life Safety Officer (certified through the National Fire Protection Association) I think this is one topic I can speak on as a professional . . . and again . . . I have a real issue with any person, organization or company which uses fear as a tool to affect change. As a sales tool maybe it works, but for long term change I prefer education and explanation.

So here's the deal . . . they'll come to your house if you say you want them to do a free "inspection" and tell you your existing fire protection is no good and they have a great solution. Heck, when I first ran into them they were actually selling a "low cost" tool to break open windows so you could escape -- it was a miniature bat like you might buy at a Major League Baseball stadium . . . of course the fact that all windows should freely open so you can escape without fear of cutting one's self on broken glass was apparently loss to some folks.

They are a local company in terms of they have an office somewhere in the State . . . but this is all based from a larger company which employs the same sales tactics and strategies.

OK, so are your smoke detectors no good? Depends. If they're over 10 years old they need to be replaced. Otherwise, they're fine. Fact: The ionization smoke detectors which were the predominant smoke detector sold in the U.S. for many years is a bit slower in detecting a slow, smoldering fire. Experts say the detection time between ionization and photo-electric detectors was not that significant . . . although most experts also say for best protection it's good to have both types of detectors (ionization detectors are slightly better at fast, flaming fires). In my home I have some of each . . . and a couple dual ion/photo detectors . . . which incidentally can be bought for around $20-$40. Almost every single one of these detectors has a push to silent button for those few false alarms I get . . . which honestly are rather rare (the tech has improved . . . and knowing where to place them helps a lot). I have a few which come with permanent lithium batteries for 10 year use which are rather convenient.

Heat detectors are not used in homes very often these days . . . but if folks want one they can install them rather easily. Best place to find these would be at a professional electrical supply store. The company is correct that you can install them in places like a garage, attic or bathroom . . . but if one looks at the stats you will see that the vast majority of fires are not occurring in these locations but are in other areas of the home . . . but again, there is nothing wrong with the extra protection in these locations.

Remain skeptical . . . I have had folks come up to me to proudly tell me about their $2,000 fire alarm system . . . when in fact for less than $500 they could have had as good, if not a better, fire alarm system.

While a company may suggest a 20-year time span on their detectors, I will mention that both the Consumer Products Safety Commission and the NFPA suggest changing out detectors after 10 years based on research. These are electronic . . . and unfortunately electronics as they age do get less reliable. Me . . . I'll take the chance on my LED TV, computer or dishwasher crapping out after 10 years of use . . . but when it comes to my family's life safety I'll follow what everyone else is recommending and change out my smoke detectors after 10 years.

By vaulted ceiling do you mean with a tray . . . or is it sloped?

At work I don't make any personal recommendations as to brands . . . but personally I am partial to First Alert (i.e. BRK Brands).
 
Here is some more evidence of a scam.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2015/sure-signal-products-recalls-heat-activated-fire-alarms
Note, that masterguard (video below) and detech use sure signal products. It's like MLM, multi-level marketing. Here is a masterguard video:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


If there are any other brands/models that you folks recommend that would be appreciated.


Masterguard was the company I was familiar with . . . but if Masterguard and the other company are either not one and the same, sister companies or a company spun off Masterguard from a former employee or owner, I would eat my socks (well maybe not . . . they can get pretty ripe sometimes.)
 
I use the basic kidde smoke & co sealed units rated for 10 years, there cheap at $30.00 a detector, they will talk to each other if one goes off and I know from previous experience of a little smoke coming out the loading door of the stove, or burning some toast in the toaster oven that they will go off, actually I complain to myself that there "to sensitive"
 
Here are some pics of the living room with insert. Also, do you guys feel that every bedroom should have a smoke detector?
 

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Here are some pics of the living room with insert. Also, do you guys feel that every bedroom should have a smoke detector?

Yes . . . it is recommended by most fire safety experts that smoke detectors be placed in the hallway outside the bedrooms, one on every floor and one in each of the bedrooms (this is two-fold: a) for folks who sleep with the door shut and b) to give a little earlier warning if a fire starts in a bedroom as folks are generally asleep and may not react as quickly.
 
Thank you guys!

No problem . . . fire safety is kinda my thing . . . well and ATVing and geocaching and working with firewood.
 
Yes . . . it is recommended by most fire safety experts that smoke detectors be placed in the hallway outside the bedrooms, one on every floor and one in each of the bedrooms (this is two-fold: a) for folks who sleep with the door shut and b) to give a little earlier warning if a fire starts in a bedroom as folks are generally asleep and may not react as quickly.

its also building code for the 2015 building code. - within 15 feet of a bedroom outside, one in every bedroom and at least every common area...
 
No problem . . . fire safety is kinda my thing . . . well and ATVing and geocaching and working with firewood.

My father worked in fire investigation, and sometimes brought work home with him when I was a kid, so I got to see all kinds of horror stories. As a result, I have two fire alarm systems in my house, one hardwired with 5 smoke/CO detectors and the other monitored wireless with 12 or 13 smoke and rate of rise sensors. Seeing all the stupid ways in which a fire can begin and progress, has a way of making one feel somewhat vulnerable to this.

In truth, the prior owners installed the hardwired system, all I did was put new detectors on it (with the CO function), when I bought the house. The wireless system was installed by me as part of our home security system, mostly aimed at getting the FD headed my way if the house starts burning while I’m abroad, while providing coverage in parts of the property not covered by the existing wired system.

My advice, get a system with the following features:

1. Communication between devices. This must include a drop-out warning feature, so you know when communication is lost, or one unit goes dead.

2. Central low-battery warnings, so you know when the one in the barn or any seldom-accessed area is dying. That low battery chirp is useless, if you weren’t there to hear it.

If a fire starts in the house while I’m working out in my shop, or vice versa, I will know about it. This is important to me, as I’m often out there working in the evening, while the rest of the family is asleep.