Should I get a better stove?

[bogieb]

Altering the fan speed to suit your ears instead of to suit the stove may not be the best thing for your stove. Your stove is the thing that needs to be kept cool by removing all the heat you can. If you're running it on max heat, which I hope you are to keep the barn warm, then you want the fans on high too. Actually, some of us with Quads have changed our wiring to keep the fans on high all the time to remove as much heat as possible by creating turbulent flow rather than laminar flow.

Hmm, wonder how to rig the Hastings so I can get a high fan while it is on #1 or 2 setting. Generates plenty of heat that I would like project more into the room so it gets to the other fans to the hallway instead of waiting for it to heat up from 1 end to the other. Probably not something I could tackle mystelf, hu?

 

[Sqf1]

Th, the stove auger setting is never above 1. When one setting 1 you can either choose to have the circ fan on 1 which leads to a really hot stove but not a warm room OR you can put the circ fan on 5 which is loud and cools the stove down so the top is cool. I changed mine so that I can adjust the fan to a middle setting so it is not too loud, keeps the stove warm and also heats the room.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks smokey. The smoke pen should've shown me all the leaks when I applied positive pressure to the system. No leaks in the ash pan were detectd. It has improved greatly since sealing the auger fly and burnpot. My room air temps even went up to 145 even when the circle fan is on high and the OAK is on low.

Would you recommend a different way to test for air leaks? I figured air going in and blocking the exhaust would be the easiest way to detect leaks but perhaps I missed something.

I'm going to order the new control board so I can heavily modify the old one. I've already tied in a micro controller to control the room circ fan. I linked that microcontroller to my wifi so I can control the micro controller and therefore fan speed through my phone from anywhere. It tell me what setting the fan is on and allow me to cycle. So now I can tell if the stove chit itself off even if I'm at work. If I get the new board I should be able to pirate the old one to be able to control all the functions remotely.

My house is cobblestone and built prior to 1815 which is the earliest I've ever heard of balloon construction being used. I know it was used everywhere but it is not common to see its use outside the Midwest before the Victorian Era.

The place next door to me is a 1785 or so place constructed in that manner. Across the street is another of a bit later construction but balloon.

What happens is that when the various parts of the stove are operated one sometimes doesn't get said parts closed up completely, for example the door. While testing you make certain to get the door closed tight well because you are testing, in actual operation you might not be so careful in getting that latch set correctly.

Please pay attention to what tjnamtiw is saying we don't want to read about a large old cobblestone in New York state going up in flames and injuries or fatalities when links to the news stories get posted here throughout the season and for some reason they do.

 

[Sqf1]

Maybe I am missing something. The stove auger and exhaust fan allow me to run the inside air fan at (I'm just picking numbers) 200rpm or 900rpm. That is completely acceptable and safe. How does adding the option to run the inside air fan at 450rpm while everything else stays the same somehow make it more dangerous? I'm not being sarcastic at all. I just logically can't see a reason it would.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Maybe I am missing something. The stove auger and exhaust fan allow me to run the inside air fan at (I'm just picking numbers) 200rpm or 900rpm. That is completely acceptable and safe. How does adding the option to run the inside air fan at 450rpm while everything else stays the same somehow make it more dangerous? I'm not being sarcastic at all. I just logically can't see a reason it would.

Prolonged running of a stove outside of its designed air flows can lead to increased volatile condensates in the system.

Please note in this case it isn't likely to be an issue, however that is for you to decide, we just caution against it and point out that insurance companies will get a bit out of joint as well and that leads to other folks like the mortgage carrier to jump all over you if the insurance company dumps you being that the requirement for carrying the insurance is likely part of the mortgage contract.

 

[Lake Girl]

My house is cobblestone and built prior to 1815 which is the earliest I've ever heard of balloon construction being used. I know it was used everywhere but it is not common to see its use outside the Midwest before the Victorian Era.

The point of that post was the dead air space ie no insulation, not necessarily balloon construction. I understand that the house is cobblestone but you stated the family room is stick construction with stucco circa late 1800s. Unless there have been extensive renovations inside or out on those walls, no insulation, vapour barrier, house wrap.... More heat loss = harder to heat!

 

[Sqf1]

Smokey,
I get the insurance thing but I still don't get the condensate possibility. I can run it 24/7 at low and 24/7 at high but 24/7 at medium will create a variable not seen at the high and low end? I could see not passing a factory low or high but picking an in between should keep you safe.

You guys are the experts so if there is an actual reason i truly want to understand it. If it is simply that the factory never thought there would be a need for an in-between then that is another matter.

It's like GM removing the door lock cylinders from passenger doors a few years back, adding a door lock to the passenger side doesn't make it unsafe. It's just that the manufacturer saved money and who really needs that passenger lock?

I appreciate the discussion, this is fantastic! I'll re-run the smoke pen test and put a sensor inside to see how many psi I can build before the door seals leak. I believe I was just about half a psi above atmosphere last time I did it.

 

[Lake Girl]

The point of that post was the dead air space ie no insulation, not necessarily balloon construction. I understand that the house is cobblestone but you stated the family room is stick construction with stucco circa late 1800s. Unless there have been extensive renovations inside or out on those walls, no insulation, vapour barrier, house wrap.... More heat loss = harder to heat!

Edit: Do we get to see pics of the house?

 

[Sqf1]

The point of that post was the dead air space ie no insulation, not necessarily balloon construction. I understand that the house is cobblestone but you stated the family room is stick construction with stucco circa late 1800s. Unless there have been extensive renovations inside or out on those walls, no insulation, vapour barrier, house wrap.... More heat loss = harder to heat!

That was my fault. The family room was gutted when I moved in. Closed cell poly sprayed in the wall and ceiling. The crawlspace and floor were added this past summer.

The room is warm now, I'm just fine tuning and seeing what I may be able to enhance.

I appologize for the confusion on that.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

It is where the condensation point will be if it is inside the fire box (not likely but possible, no issue because it will light off almost as fast as it condenses no build up), if it is outside the vent system no problem, if it is inside the vent system or heat exchanger potential big problem because it can build up enough to become a creosote fire and that venting isn't going to survive it.

It is all in the airflow and the airflow’s temperature that determines where and how much. Not something I would personally play with outside a fire lab.

 

[Sqf1]

I think I understand it now. The one thing I'm hung up on is that the circ fan and firebox sides are physically seperate systems. If I alter the circ side I "should" be able to do so safely as long as I stay within the factory hi and low. Now changing fan speeds inside the firebox or auger speeds is not something I would consider without some serious testing!

I'll post pics when I get home. The cool thing is the family that built the house in 1805 lived in it straight through to 2002.
It is largely un molested.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I think I understand it now. The one thing I'm hung up on is that the circ fan and firebox sides are physically seperate systems. If I alter the circ side I "should" be able to do so safely as long as I stay within the factory hi and low. Now changing fan speeds inside the firebox or auger speeds is not something I would consider without some serious testing!

I'll post pics when I get home. The cool thing is the family that built the house in 1805 lived in it straight through to 2002.
It is largely un molested.

The circulation fan lowers the exhaust air streams temperature because it extracts heat from it. via the heat exchanger. This means two things control where and when the bad stuff comes out.

Running my version of the same stove basically as yours on high room fan, low low (1-) firing rate, I get a bit 'sote on the fire box box walls that light off as a sparkle line on the firebox back wall when the stove is started, the little bit of condensation happens during shut down. When the stove is allowed to run on full automatic (room follows firing rate) I get nothing anywhere. I can't vouch for any in betwen settings at all. I also can't vouch for any actual installation except mine and those that conform to the stove makers instructions.

I do not have a lab to conduct tests in but tend to believe the stove makers and the testing labs have it somewhat covered.

tj will tell you that thermodynamics is an interesting topic being I believe he knew a bit about the subject.

 

[Sqf1]

Excellent. That makes sense!
Perhaps I will add some thermometers to get reading on egts at high low and middle to see how much it changes them. I will also email Husdon river to see what they say.

I've run into similar situations in the past. When building and programming an outdoor reset to my condensing boiler people told me it was not safe or wise. I got in touch with the engineers at the boiler manufacturer and they said it was perfectly fine, in fact I built a controller for about $18 that their company sells for $720. Just making the boiler a mod con instead of just a con.

Again, thanks for the discussion!

 

[Lake Girl]

in fact I built a controller for about $18 that their company sells for $720. Just making the boiler a mod con instead of just a con.

Royalties??

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Excellent. That makes sense!
Perhaps I will add some thermometers to get reading on egts at high low and middle to see how much it changes them. I will also email Husdon river to see what they say.

I've run into similar situations in the past. When building and programming an outdoor reset to my condensing boiler people told me it was not safe or wise. I got in touch with the engineers at the boiler manufacturer and they said it was perfectly fine, in fact I built a controller for about $18 that their company sells for $720. Just making the boiler a mod con instead of just a con.

Again, thanks for the discussion!

Hudson River is a distributor,. you'll likely need to talk to someone else.

 

[Sqf1]

Today


1967


1945




House pre-1917 (all fireplaces and chimneys removed in 1917 when electricity and boiler system were added). The one chinney in the 1960 pic was added when they put in hot water in the 1950's. I hope to add the Yankee Gutters back on when I get to putting the roof right.

 

[CaptSpiff]

Love those floor to ceiling windows! Not sure how you kept your heating costs down at 4800 with LPG last season. By the way, you didn't say but I'm assuming those radiators are steam?

 

[Sqf1]

No hot water.

The house has storms and I rebuilt them so the front windows are original but no air leaks. The rest of the house is all modern windows.

 

[chken]

Thanks for that trip thru time!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

That cobble stone seems to have held up nice.

 

[Sqf1]

Recreating 200+ year old attic vents


Restoring lights


Building barnwood harvest tables


Restoring pine floors



Our home is actually one of five built by the same family. They moved here from Maryland in 1800 and five houses built within a mile of one another. Three are left standing today. Not many changes were made inside so my time is spent "putting things right". I try to use period correct methods where appropriate. Lime whitewash in basement instead of paint, Dutch oil on floors instead of polyurethane etc. when I say un-molested there were several cases where we stripped wallpaper and found writing on the uncovered horsehair walls that were signed and dated as far back as 1835.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

What kind of ash in the burn pot are you left with now? Some may be normal and some may be pellet quality related.
Another thing I just remembered. I have a damper on my air intake, it is a Hudson River add on post production. Now that all the air is going through your pot you potentially have too much air. You may consider this option to find tune your burn quality.

 

[Lake Girl]

I'm amazed that you're not broke heating that house! May want to consider a pellet boiler in your future!

Off topic but you've been pretty painstaking in restoring it to former dignity... The final pic almost looks like the house was abandoned at one point. Do you have much of the original land and outbuildings? 120 year old barn just collapsed near here this fall ... sad to see it gone.

 

[johninwi]

If he's chasing air leaks within the stove would placing the smoke pen in the oak and running the exhaust blower perhaps show other leaks?

 

[Sqf1]

The ash is very fine. As fine as that in the ash pan but I was figuring it's building up in the burnpot because I have the old burnpot before they made the bottom more open. It's solid-ish but it's very fine.

We wanted to switch to NG because it's about half the cost of propane but the utility wanted $15,000 to run the line because the main is a mile away.
I hope to be under 4k for propane this year. Prices are cooperating and so far the weather is nowhere near as brutal. Last year was insane.

We own 5 acres, there are a few 5acre lots around us but it's mostly still farmland. The house was never abandoned and was a working 1000 acre farm up until 1999. We have two barns that are between 1835 and 1870 and two newer steel building. I use one to store cars, one is my shop, one barn is storage and the other is our "fitness" barn, treadmills and Rock walls etc.