Shopping for 110 year old home

[Mknmike]

I’ve yet to have a fire in this house that has a chain damper for a spring loaded cap. We had the top of the chimney rebuilt and it took scaffolding and/or a $4000 lift to get to the top. I had a slammer install of an old 1980 cast iron beautiful but loud insert at our last house. There was no vertical restriction from allowing the heat to rise right up through the entire house and when the temps dropped, our natural gas usage went through the floor bc I started burning. It was great. The chimney was a total mess when I removed the slammer install. I don’t know if we had chimney fires in that very solidly built 100-year old home or what bc when I cleaned it I did find cracks in the bricks at the back of the fireplace. Face temps of the cast iron stove would often reach 600-700. So I didn’t exactly do it right over there. If the fan wasn’t so loud, I’d consider installing a liner and bringing that stove to the new house. But I figure I should “do it right” this time around, and size the stove for max burn time if possible.

I will use this thread to try and document my adventure. Do I just use it as an open fireplace this time? Do I buy a new / used insert or stove? Or do I just install a liner for the insert(s) I already have?

 

[Mknmike]

An antiques dealer owned this home in the 1960’s and installed a lot of Chinese themed antiques including the mantle which certainly doesn’t appear original to the house. We like he details and history as my wife’s grandfather was quite proud of his antique (style) furniture work that he did for the antiques dealer. We consider owning this house a privilege and want to do anything we do here right. I think the house is going to be quite expensive to heat though, with a standard natural gas 80-83% efficient boiler, original windows, several currently single-pane and drafty. So any extra free heat in the coldest of times will help a lot.

 

[moresnow]

Look into fixing the windows/drafty issues first. Possibly there are superior boilers you can consider upgrading to?
My opinion.

 

[Mknmike]

Look into fixing the windows/drafty issues first. Possibly there are superior boilers you can consider upgrading to?
My opinion.

Those are all plans for sure. We are entering burning season, and maybe tear 1 is just the open fireplace method. Looks like I’d probably have to bash out the smoke shelf to install a liner. :-(

 

[Mknmike]

I took a video of the firebox, but at 24” high, it’s less than 18” deep. Go down a few inches to like 21” high, and it’s only about 19” deep I think.
28” wide seems like good width.

So in shopping for the future, those are dimensions I’d need to work with and see if it’s necessary to bash out the smoke shelf. If I end up here forever with a forever insert, I guess it’s worth it. But maybe there’s an adapter I can work with.

Long term, I’m considering eliminating the utilities immediately below the fireplace and possibly trying to make that a finished room in the basement. That could be another place to provide heat to the whole house, from underneath.

I’d like to switch to a modcon boiler and eliminate the usage of the heater chimney by the existing boiler and traditional gas water heater(s). I could switch to either a combi or more likely a tank-in-tank heated by a standard modcon. I’d probably move all this to the laundry room under the kitchen which is where I believe I’d minimize piping and wait time for hot water. I’d maybe just have a very large primary loop for heating from under the kitchen to the space under the fireplace if I don’t redo all the boiler piping. Currently we’ve got 4” pipe in the basement, as if the heating system was initially steam or something. I don’t know if wilmington Delaware had steam run into homes in 1919, but there is at least one 2” pipe coming through the foundation that’s no longer in use that appears to have previously been attached to the large boiler pipes. In any case, it may be wise to remove all that massive piping. Lots to do. So heating the house with wood until that’s done would be beneficial.

 

[begreen]

Are you going for a period look or is supplemental heat the priority? Is this fireplace are in a closed off room or part of an open floorplan?
An important issue will be mantel clearances. That can be addressed by replacing the mantel or sticking with a flush insert, though the fireplace depth may be a blocking factor. Given that fit is critical, it would help to fill in this diagram with dimensions.

 

[Mknmike]

Are you going for a period look or is supplemental heat the priority? Is this fireplace are in a closed off room or part of an open floorplan?
An important issue will be mantel clearances. That can be addressed by replacing the mantel or sticking with a flush insert, though the fireplace depth may be a blocking factor. Given that fit is critical, it would help to fill in this diagram with dimensions.

View attachment 318268

A= 30”
B= 10” all the way at the back
C = (something greater than 28”)
D= 28”
E=
This depends on the height at which you take the measurement:
0” high: 24.5”
12” high: 24”
16” high: 22”
20” high: 19.5”
22” high: 18”
24” high: 17”
30” high: 11”


F= 14.5”
G=78”
H= 50”
I=37”
J=37-56 as you can see wood immediately above marble

 

[begreen]

Very helpful, thanks.
What are the priorities? How large of an area will the stove or insert realistically be heating?

Are you going for a period look or is supplemental heat the priority? Is this fireplace are in a closed off room or part of an open floorplan?

 

[begreen]

For a period look, the Hampton Hi2450 looks like it will just fit. In catalytic inserts there is the Blaze King Ashford insert. Mantel clearances will need to be taken into account but need not be a showstopper.

 

[Todd]

I think of you could extend that hearth a Woodstock Fireview would look really nice there.

 

[Mknmike]

Very helpful, thanks.
What are the priorities? How large of an area will the stove or insert realistically be heating?

Thank you!

Heat would be great, but I guess I should be careful not to cook the 90 year old unrestored Steinway piano or the antique mantle. So something that kicks some good wind would be good probably, maybe something that I could put a bowl of water near to build some humidity too. Looks are important. Long burns to not spend my life filling it or sleepless nights trying to get it to burn through the night. I couldn’t remember my login, but I uploaded the manual for the 1980-1982 Shelburne Vermont Stove Company for which I learned tons about the benefits of inserts. And of course my family loved its ability to run like an open fire too. So it’s kind of like “I want it all”, and feel like I had it before with my ancient LOUD inserts, which I do still have. I may still consider installing one of them in the garage at this new house.

How large of an area? House is 4200 sq ft, and there is a doorway before the center hall where heat can rise.

 

[begreen]

I think of you could extend that hearth a Woodstock Fireview would look really nice there.

Given the house size, maybe a Progress Hybrid would be better if mantel clearances are ok, though for certain, no stove will heat the whole place. It will mostly be just heating that end of the large house.

 

[begreen]

How large of an area? House is 4200 sq ft, and there is a doorway before the center hall where heat can rise.

Is this in the single story wing of the house? If so, how large is this room. That is where most of the heat will be.

 

[Mknmike]

Woodstock Fireview is the prettiest of what’s been proposed here IMO.

 

[Mknmike]

Is this in the single story wing of the house? If so, how large is this room. That is where most of the heat will be.

The single story side was originally a porch that was extended a bit on the back side. I could possibly put something additional in there, but the fireplace faces the main part of the house, and the chimney backs up to a hallway across from the powder room back there.

I guess if the large living room gets really warm, then heat should overflow into the center hall and rise up the three story stairwell adding heat to open rooms on the floors above. But it will have to get past the blocker before getting into the hall, so the livingroom will have to be very warm. Maybe the fireplace will draw cool air across the floor helping it circulate. But an outdoor air intake would be wise I assume. I don’t know if using the ash drop door would make sense to provide outdoor air via the basement. The crawl space under the single story is very cold and needs insulation on the heating pipes (after having asbestos removed) and could probably be an easy outdoor air intake.

 

[Mknmike]

Do you think the smoke shelf would need to be ripped out? 4+“ of clearance for some curved fitting?

 

[begreen]

Woodstock Fireview is the prettiest of what’s been proposed here IMO.

It's a good medium-sized stove with a long track record.

Do you think the smoke shelf would need to be ripped out? 4+“ of clearance for some curved fitting?

That's not a big deal. It's pretty typical to have to notch that area to clear the liner.

 

[BKVP]

You can drive up to New Lebanon NH and see them. They sell direct to consumer as well. I personally know the staff there and they are very, very helpful. Then all you need is a CSIA or NFI or NCSG certified installer. Chimney sweeps are often available to tackle your type of installation.

BKVP

 

[Mknmike]

Thank you! I guess we will see what open fires are like and see if there’s anything I can do to minimize heat loss when waiting for coals to die out at the end of a fire. Maybe, like we did with the insert at the other house, we will only have fires on the coldest of days when I can burn all day long.

I will take my time on the hunt, and since my old inserts are worthless bring them to the garage where I might install one. Perhaps that can be my project for the first fire burning device at this house. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vermont-stove-company-shelburne-insert.100782/

I will also be able to get to the top of that chimney to drop a liner down on my own. I’d love to have some method to add a heat exchanger to maybe heat this pool too. Dare to dream. I’ve piped natural gas into the garage and have considered the concept of buying an identical modcon boiler for the garage as whatever I get for the house. The benefits would be spare parts for a house modcon (because there’s always fear of it taking several days to get parts for them), and having a boiler WAY oversized for the garage but capable of possibly being used as a pool heater. Heating with wood and yard waste should be a greener approach though. Heating a pool here is probably a real waste.


Pipe dream.

Anyway, back on the house, I guess we will do a standard fireplace this first winter.

The spring damper is an interesting thing I’ve never had before and wonder if it has any draft issues. There are two screws in the top of the face of the fireplace which clearly used to be used for some sort of hood. I assume that means there have been draft issues.

I really liked the ability to partially open doors and control the draft a lot better with the insert. So I do think we will really want one for the house. All in time.

 

[begreen]

Code prohibits wood stove installation in a garage.

 

[Mknmike]

Code prohibits wood stove installation in a garage.

Noo!! Interesting. Is that nationally in the US? I remember a neighbor having one that had finished space in part of that garage though.

 

[begreen]

Noo!! Interesting. Is that nationally in the US? I remember a neighbor having one that had finished space in part of that garage though.

Yes, afaik.

 

[Ashful]

Skip the pool. Easier to just pick up a cheap heat pump for that, under $5k and fully automatic. Don't worry about the mantel or the piano, neither have a direct line of sight to the fire, and neither will get hot enough to matter. I have two large harps and a baby grand near one of my wood stoves, and an orchestra of stringed instruments near the other, no issues as long as they're not sitting directly in front of the radiant surface that is the front glass. I also have large framed surrounds and even doors, on each of my fireplaces, with no issues.

 

[Ashful]

Noo!! Interesting. Is that nationally in the US? I remember a neighbor having one that had finished space in part of that garage though.

Lots of people have them, my grandfather did in his shop that was a converted garage. But that doesn't make them legal. It becomes an issue if there's ever a fire or other accident, as insurance companies may not cover losses associated with installations that are not code-compliant.

 

[bholler]

Noo!! Interesting. Is that nationally in the US? I remember a neighbor having one that had finished space in part of that garage though.

It is national in the us. If it was in a separate finished room apart from tge garage area that would be fine