Septic Tank Questions

[peakbagger]

One other option is an aerobic septic system http://www.thecleansolution.com/. This is a new variation of several systems used over the years in problematical sites with poor or insufficient soils. They can be quite effective but generally require electricity and usually monitoring to operate. I believe the state of Maine was approving these types of systems for ocean front lots with existing buildings that had failed systems or straight pipes. Unlike a conventional leachfield where the bulk of the biology is going on at the individual weep holes of the piping, the majority of the biology is going on inside the media chamber with an aerobic system.

The Presby design leach field has a mesh media wrapped around the corrugated distribution piping which is then covered with geotextile, it acts as a poor mans trickling filter as the media forms far greater surface area for the bacterial mat.

The aerobic technology has been around for years and usually is referred to as trickling filter. One plus is that anerobic conditions tend to be far more aggressive to concrete than aerobic conditions so tanks should last longer. Note most municipal treatment plants are aerobic based.

 

[Highbeam]

Note most municipal treatment plants are aerobic based.

That's because aerobic bacteria eat much much much faster.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

The outlet to our drainfield collapsed but the 1,000 g tank is fine.
I dropped two concrete blocks (with a rope) and lowered a submersible sump pump
onto the concrete. This put the pump above the lower sludge, and the tank is about 6' tall.
I pop the manhole cover myself and pump into the drainpool that leads to the drainfield through
the collapsed piece of 6" clay pipe.

After our annual $175 dollar ritual started getting bothersome and I did the pump thing. There's also
a siphon effect. I plug it in to start the flow and shut it off. This drains the watery stuff about
halfway before stopping itself. After doing this last two years it's evolved to not even lifting the
cover any longer. I just pump twice a year and all is good. This was a band aid temp fix until
I could find better than a 14 dollar job. Got the good job now but it's works so well no need to dig
up the yard to replace the clay pipe. Plus, the pumper guy said we need a much larger tank with the family
size. Used to be two people living here, now it's a zoo with my crew. The old tank is still there and if
necessary I can pump into that one. Most septics are 90% other than flushwater. Showers, kitchen sink, washing machine, etc.
I pump the water and leave the rest to the bacteria.

 

[iamlucky13]

That's because aerobic bacteria eat much much much faster.

Both faster and more completely, as I understand it.

For residential on site septic systems, keep in mind that local authorities usually have a couple fairly conventional designs they are familiar with and can permit based on existing standards, a simple percolation report and sizing calculation, and a layout drawing by the installer. More advanced designs often require an engineering report, which drives the cost up, so if you aren't dealing with a small lot, poor percolation, or other such problems, a conventional system probably has a cost advantage.

 

[Highbeam]

Both faster and more completely, as I understand it.

For residential on site septic systems, keep in mind that local authorities usually have a couple fairly conventional designs they are familiar with and can permit based on existing standards, a simple percolation report and sizing calculation, and a layout drawing by the installer. More advanced designs often require an engineering report, which drives the cost up, so if you aren't dealing with a small lot, poor percolation, or other such problems, a conventional system probably has a cost advantage.

Correct, and with those fancy "alternative" systems comes an annual, burdensome, expensive, and extensive test report that must be submitted. I do wish our state would come around to allowing surface application (sprinklers) of the finished effluent.

 

[brenndatomu]

Put a wad of tp in a mason jar full of water and wait a week, or shake it up. You'll see it readily dissolve to dust.

If you are using Scott 1000 or equivalent, yes. If using Charmin and the like, you'll just have a jar of wet TP at the end of the week.
I work for a municipal water/sewer utility and we just did this test, results were surprising, the Scott 1000 was the only one that really started to dissolve at all.

I would love to be on sewer. You could flush anything, use a garbage disposal, take three hour showers, etc.

Ahh, no. Well, I guess you can, but it will bite you in the butt sooner or later when your sewer lateral line plugs up (which is usually your responsibility, not the sewer utility) People seem to like to flush baby wipes, wet wipes and those danged Swiffer mop pads. None of that stuff should ever be flushed (even though some of it says "flushable" on the package) Have you ever tried to use a baby wipe with rough dry hands? They are like velcro, you can't let go of 'em! They do the same thing in the sewer...catch on any little rough spot on the pipe, tree roots, etc, etc, etc. These darn things are probably the number one reason for municipal sewer backups these days! Here's a link to an article about one such incident https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...8.html&usg=AFQjCNH-UvcIriiajqqKlC_pYD8jQe0iZA

 

[peakbagger]

I am not advocating the new high tech systems but some folks on small lots with bad soils don't have a lot of choice. In some cases the only alternative is holding tank that needs to be pumped out.

As an aside, as my forum name implies, I hike a lot. While backpacking the Appalachian Trail through Maryland I noticed all the shelters had holding tanks on their outhouses including some shelters up on mountains and far in the woods. I talked to a person involved with the trail in that area and Maryland outright banned the use of conventional outhouses for this application. In order to build those back county shelters, the trail clubs had to obtain a right of way from the nearest road and maintain the right of way so a pump truck can drive up and pump the tank out. Nearby me the local national forest had to rebuild an old logging road several miles long including three bridges washed out in a flood so that they can drive a pump truck out to a backcountry campsite a couple of times a year. Definitely a road to nowhere. The Maine AT club uses an elevated composting design, after use the user adds a handful of leaf litter from a bucket. They work really well and don't stink.

With respect to flushable wipes, yup they are major problem. Many utilities are having to retrofit their pumping stations with inline macerators upstream (aka Muffin monsters) upstream of their pumps to deal with these flushable wipes.

 

[brenndatomu]

Many utilities are having to retrofit their pumping stations with inline macerators upstream (aka Muffin monsters) upstream of their pumps to deal with these flushable wipes.

We just removed our MM because OHEPA made us install an influent screen to take out anything 5/8" or larger...but we installed a 6mm screen and it works great...no more trash in the plant. We are a 2 MGD average plant and the screen is generating about 1 cubic yard per week of compacted waste (trash) filtered from the influent...that is a lot of solid waste accumulated in the sludge digesters in a years time!

 

[iamlucky13]

My experience when hiking has been the composting toilets, if properly designed, have much lower odor than the more common vault toilets that are at most trailheads. In Washington, we still have a few basic pit toilets and outhouses on some trails. I've not heard any agitation from the state Department of Health about removing them. I'm hoping that means they've considered the question and decided they are adequate. There's not many matters in our state that don't get blown out of proportion, so I pretty certain it must have been studied at some point.

We just removed our MM because OHEPA made us install an influent screen to take out anything 5/8" or larger...but we installed a 6mm screen and it works great...no more trash in the plant. We are a 2 MGD average plant and the screen is generating about 1 cubic yard per week of compacted waste (trash) filtered from the influent...that is a lot of solid waste accumulated in the sludge digesters in a years time!

Based on water usage in my area, I think that MGD that would put you at 10-20,000 people served? I'm almost surprised you only average about 1/2 cubic inch per person per day.

 

[brenndatomu]

Based on water usage in my area, I think that MGD that would put you at 10-20,000 people served? I'm almost surprised you only average about 1/2 cubic inch per person per day.

Its actually a population of 8500, but we have large commercial/industrial flow

 

[Highbeam]

If you are using Scott 1000 or equivalent, yes. If using Charmin and the like, you'll just have a jar of wet TP at the end of the week.
I work for a municipal water/sewer utility and we just did this test, results were surprising, the Scott 1000 was the only one that really started to dissolve at all.

Ahh, no. Well, I guess you can, but it will bite you in the butt sooner or later when your sewer lateral line plugs up (which is usually your responsibility, not the sewer utility) People seem to like to flush baby wipes, wet wipes and those danged Swiffer mop pads. None of that stuff should ever be flushed (even though some of it says "flushable" on the package) Have you ever tried to use a baby wipe with rough dry hands? They are like velcro, you can't let go of 'em! They do the same thing in the sewer...catch on any little rough spot on the pipe, tree roots, etc, etc, etc. These darn things are probably the number one reason for municipal sewer backups these days! Here's a link to an article about one such incident https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj_2cbytaHQAhUE6CYKHbqbAtwQFgglMAI&url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/23/fatberg-london-sewer_n_7125878.html&usg=AFQjCNH-UvcIriiajqqKlC_pYD8jQe0iZA

I too work for a small water/sewer utility. Knowing what gets flushed allows us to know what we can get away with flushing if we were hooked up.

 

[vinny11950]

After much digging, I found the lid. Buried 2 feet below the surface. I used the probe trick suggested by Mcdougy (thanks) to find the edges and then the middle. It's a big lid 24" in diameter. From probing around the tank I don't think there is much room left for additional covers, so I am hopefully confident this is the one.



I called around to a few cesspool services. The first one I called never called me back after quoting me $350 (seemed annoyed I was calling and asking for a price) to pump the septic tank.

The second place I called I found in the yellowpages and had good reviews online. They quoted me $325 to pump the septic tank but strongly inferred I should also pump the 2 cesspools that the septic tank overflows to. Does this sound right?

It's an additional cost of $300 for each cesspool plus digging around for the cesspools, which the original building plan says are block.

Not sure if I should go the additional expense. Though the system has probably never been serviced as far as I know so maybe I should go all out.

 

[mitchell721]

It doesn't seem like you should really have too. Key words Rd being should. If my understanding is right cesspool are just essentially dry wells that allow the water to permeate back into the ground the solids should all be in your first tank. Now that's where the should comes into place. I would be there with them when they pump and see how high the actual solids where and if they were close or at the line going to the cess pools then yes I would have them done also. That's just my 2 cents. Mind you the tank is always full but it the solid level your looking for. There's also a benefit to being there. You can ask the guy pumping questions. They are usually pretty helpful in my opinion.

 

[iamlucky13]

$325 is a good price in my area. The company I used had a flat fee up to 1000 gallons of somewhere in that price range, and then a per 100 gallons add on fee based on size to cover the extra time and disposal costs for larger systems, since he has to pay to dispose of the waste at the municipal sewer plant.

I think mitchell is right. You should not need to pump the cesspools, but if significant solids are reaching them, you might.

The solids are comprised of the sludge settled into the bottom of the tank, which should not reach the cesspool unless the tank has filled up too far, and scum that floats on the top, which also should not reach the cesspool unless the level has filled up too far, or if the baffle is damaged or missing.

You can measure the level yourself. Here's one method:
(broken link removed to http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehoss/inspect_septic.html)

The baffles are harder to inspect if the tank hasn't just been pumped.

Installers in this area also typically offer inspections (they'd love to convince you to do them annually - usually only done by home sellers who want a document confirming the system is in good condition) for a lower price.

 

[peakbagger]

When I talked to a local pumping firm years ago they didn't recommend pumping the cesspool as their experience was that there was good chance that the pool would collapse in on itself if disturbed.

 

[jatoxico]

Considering you're doing this for maintenance and not due to any problem I would pump the septic and call it a day. Far as I ever heard that's what you're supposed to do. Once on-site a certain amount of info will be clear to the guy doing the service. So if the pools start back-flowing as he pumps then maybe you need to go ahead and pump them. For that reason it might be worthwhile to at least locate the other pools.

But even if they do have to come back it doesn't sound like a big discount for doing it all at the same time ($325 vs $300) so having them come back a different day is no biggie IMO.

 

[vinny11950]

Alright, it's happening tomorrow morning.

Will try to get some nice pictures for the group here.

Thanks again for all the replies. Let's see what happens.

 

[Highbeam]

Alright, it's happening tomorrow morning.

Will try to get some nice pictures for the group here.

Thanks again for all the replies. Let's see what happens.

Ah, the smell of money. It may be poo to you but it's my bread and butter.

 

[vinny11950]

Well, it was pumped on Saturday (luckily before the wind storm hammering us now).

Getting the lid off was a PITA. I don't think it had ever been removed.



The guy said it wasn't full and the scum on top wasn't too thick.

First he stirred the brew with what he called the spoon and then drained it.



The sludge at the bottom was piled on the corners, so he had to move the hose around to get to it.



Behind the hanging wall are the outlet pipes to the cesspools, I guess. The guy didn't have mirrors to check things out. But I take it the hanging wall keeps the scum from the outlet pipes.

Anyway, this is what it looked like towards the end.



I leave you all with a nice picture of the Maple tree in the backyard.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well, it was pumped on Saturday (luckily before the wind storm hammering us now).

Getting the lid off was a PITA. I don't think it had ever been removed.

View attachment 188514

The guy said it wasn't full and the scum on top wasn't too thick.

First he stirred the brew with what he called the spoon and then drained it.

View attachment 188515

The sludge at the bottom was piled on the corners, so he had to move the hose around to get to it.

View attachment 188516

Behind the hanging wall are the outlet pipes to the cesspools, I guess. The guy didn't have mirrors to check things out. But I take it the hanging wall keeps the scum from the outlet pipes.

Anyway, this is what it looked like towards the end.

View attachment 188517

I leave you all with a nice picture of the Maple tree in the backyard.

View attachment 188518

You need a new camera man...those are some crappy pics!

 

[vinny11950]

crappy pics

So true.