Seasoned Feel

[basswidow]

I woke up this morning to a black stove. Seems I must have put in a green split before bed and the creosote was all over the glass and brick. I cleaned the glass and got a good hot fire going in it.

Last Sept/Oct - when I covered my stacks with tarps, I used some newly split green wood on top of the tarps to keep them from blowing off (about 10-15 splits). Problem is, when I moved my wood to the house, some of these splits got mixed in. I won't make that mistake again. But now - I want to weed these out of my remaining wood (2 big rows).

When burning - the difference is obvious. Just looking at the wood - it's not so obviouis. How do people burn green wood? I hate it. I don't have a moisture meter, so I am checking each split by feel and anything too heavy becomes suspect. Most of my wood is cherry which seasons very dark. It's easy to tell when it's good. It's the lighter colored wood that I am suspect of. I am setting anything aside that doesn't feel right (too heavy).

How else could I weed out these evil green splits?

 

[Jack Straw]

I check the end grain for cracks-no cracks=moisture

 

[billb3]

I use rocks. (got plenty)
Bricks. (plenty of those, too)
and window weights (from old double hungs)

I've got some window weights hanging from holes in plywood.
Even if the wind does blow them of the pile, they don't go far.

If you've got some long 2x4 or 2x4 sized straight young saplings or branches they can be tied to the eyelets on the tarps. Like an upside down curtain rod, used as a weight, instead.

 

[LLigetfa]

I can tell just by the weight.

 

[muncybob]

Wet wood has a thud when clunked together...dry has that nice "hollow" sound.
I keep my tarps on with gallon milk jugs filled with gravel...so far it works just fine.

 

[basswidow]

Lligetfa, that's what I was thinking. I will also look at the ends for checking. I know all the oak and cherry should be good to go. It's the other splits I suspect. I have some unknown trash wood - that I bucked and split that my boss thought he was helping me out with and I think that might be it. I hate to have to sort these out - but burning just one green split really makes a mess of my stove. I will set these aside and throw them on next years pile just to be sure. I guess I could also split the split and see if it's wet inside.

Alot of good tips on how to keep the tarps weighted.

 

[savageactor7]

Riffing on LLigetfa's comment, yes, the heft of the split. You should have noticed the difference when you were picking up the 6-8 pieces you were bring in and noticed the one split was heavier. Now that's an observation not a criticism against you. I suppose the next time you go out there just pick up some splits and compare with the splits that hold down the pile. After a few times you'll be able to feel and detect the difference even blindfolded...

...well that it, back to the woodpile for me.

 

[jjh3d]

I always have some creosote in the morning. I just figured that it was because I do a slow burn all night, which is cooler, so it doesn't burn off. Am I wrong? I definitely don't have a black stove like basswidow, but the windows are about half dark brown, the bottom half. Is it a problem if I have some creosote in the morning?

 

[LLigetfa]

jjh3d,
Either you are choking the stove back way too far or burning wood before its time.

 

[jjh3d]

Thanks, LLigetfa. I'm going to keep the choke in a little more tonight and keep the blower way down. Some of my wood is a little punky and that surely isn't helping. However, no matter what happens, I can always crank it up during the day and burn off all of the creosote. Therefore, the wood must be OK, right? I NEVER have to clean creosote off the glass.

 

[azsteven]

I put some 4 or 5 foot rounds (maybe 5 inch diameter) on top of the tarps. I've also used off-cuts of pressure treated 4x4s, which are good and heavy. It's very clear which is which...

 

[gzecc]

The weight concept just doesn't hold water if you have different species of wood throughout your piles. Even if you have all the same species of wood some is heavier than others. I think some of you guys just get 6 or 8" logs of the same species and process them (no wye's or branches). If we all had that, it would be easy to tell the weight. Also if you split by hand, its likely most of the splits will be different sizes.

 

[LLigetfa]

My eyes and brain have no problem to estimate what any particular split should weigh. I don't have a shed full of mystery wood.

As soon as I pick it up I know if it's wet. When I'm moving my wood into the shed, I sort through it. I will often find a heavy piece that for one reason or another was taking on or holding onto moisture. I sort them into now, later, and much later stacks.

 

[Battenkiller]

I check the end grain for cracks-no cracks=moisture

That so? Check out these large hickory splits. The wood was cut in the middle of December, delivered the next day and left outside in a pile under tarps. Last Monday on MLK Day (Jan 18), my wife helped me bring in about a cord to dry by the stove This photo was taken three days later. Go or no-go, you tell me:

 

[Jack Straw]

I check the end grain for cracks-no cracks=moisture

That so? Check out these large hickory splits. The wood was cut in the middle of December, delivered the next day and left outside in a pile under tarps. Last Monday on MLK Day (Jan 18), my wife helped me bring in about a cord to dry by the stove This photo was taken three days later. Go or no-go, you tell me:

What do the other ends look like, you have to check both ends. I will admit that hickory tends to crack too soon. It does seem to work on most other wood. It sounds to me that you are rushing things a bit.

 

[firefighterjake]

I use my X-ray vision to determine whether a split is seasoned or not . . . and then I fly back to the porch with a ton of wood in tow.

Actually, like others, once in a while I get a split or two that is questionable . . . and since I do not have a moisture meter I simply toss that split aside for burning later. I generally go by the heft of the wood . . . it may sound stupid, but after awhile of being so intimate with the wood you get to know what a particular sized split of a particular tree species feels like when it is seasoned vs. unseasoned. Of course, you may also use your other senses besides the sense of touch . . . seeing if there are weather cracks or not sometimes helps and listening to the sound of two pieces of wood knocked up against each other.

Now that said . . . I'm not perfect . . . just ask my wife . . . and once in a while one of these questionable splits ends up in my firebox where it starts to spit and hiss for a bit. What I do in this case is simply keep the air open a bit more and a bit longer until the moisture in that one split has been driven out . . . not quite as efficient vs. having a firebox full of all-seasoned wood, but dealing with the occasional semi-seasoned split in this manner is not a real issue.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

End cracks don't mean much of anything. It means that the ends started to dry before the middle. I've seen rounds start to crack in less than a week, and splits in a few warm days. Are you telling me that my oak splits that normally take 2 years are dry in a couple weeks or less if they have checks? I have also had splits that were super dry with few or no checks- especially if they were left in log form a long time.

You may have a system down where checks tell you something about the species of wood and how you dry it- but I wouldn't give it as advice to someone new looking for info!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I check the end grain for cracks-no cracks=moisture

Jack, generally speaking you will be correct. However, it does not always hold true. For example, here are a couple of examples of cracking or no cracking on the ends along with different coloring on the ends or middle of the splits:

This is what I think about every time I read about someone judging by the looks of the wood. That is, someone says some of the wood looks light colored on the ends and other pieces look dark. Some is checked on the ends and some not. So then someone else tells him that he is getting some seasoned wood and some not-so-seasoned.


The wood in the top picture is around 6 or 7 years old (maybe 8?). The second picture is 5 years old. The third picture is wood that was cut a year ago.

Question: For a new wood burner, how would he tell seasoned from not seasoned wood in these pictures? Notice some are dark colored on the ends and some are quite light colored.

 

[Battenkiller]

What do the other ends look like, you have to check both ends. I will admit that hickory tends to crack too soon. It does seem to work on most other wood. It sounds to me that you are rushing things a bit.

OK, that's easy enough since I have to walk past the far side on every trip to the stove. Different splits this time, about half of which are oak. First shot on left is the stove side, on the right is the far side. Not a huge difference between them because the relative humidity in the room is about the same on both sides. Of course, the stove side gets a lot hotter, so there will be some difference, but as you can see, both hickory and oak are severely checked due to the harsh treatment I am giving them. You can also see several round indentations in some of the splits as well. These are from hitting the stack with a small sledge to get them to settle. It also allows me to bring in another one of my senses - hearing. You can definitely hear the wood get brighter and more resonant in tone as it dries over 2-3 weeks inside.

Adios is correct, the end checks don't tell you much. Wood dries from the end grain up to 15 times as fast as it does from the sides. When it dries very rapidly in extremely low RH conditions, the wood shrinks much faster at the ends than it does in the middle, and the grain is literally pulled apart on the ends because the middle is not shrinking much. Kiln operators keep the RH very high in the beginning of the cycle (near 100%) to reduce the chances of case-hardening and to keep end checking to a minimum. I want just the opposite - to destroy the grain on the end so the inside can dry along the multiple fissures that propagate from both ends. The effect is somewhat like splitting the wood into very thin splits, but still keeping it bound together so it won't burn fast like it would if all the splits were carried through the wood. In practice, the end checks appear after a very short time inside, but the actual drying takes a few weeks or more. I determine which ones go into the stove and when they go in simply by hefting them.

How well does this "system" that new burners aren't supposed to be hearing about actually work? Well, I grabbed one of the splits of oak (now 10 days inside instead of only three) and hefted it. Heft is not exactly the same thing as weight. Other tactile sensations are brought into play, and it is more a matter of feel than weight. Anyway, this one felt "right", so I plopped it down on top of three well involved splits (yup, all of them hickory from the same stack). The first photo is after a minute or so with the doors open. The second was taken seconds after I re-opened them, after about 5 minutes with the doors closed, bypass damper open and the intake air opened all the way. No smoke, sizzling or water coming out the ends. A good clean burn, leading to a nice hot stove in short order.

To address the original complaint of the OP, check out the doors and the back of my stove in the photos. Last night I loaded up the stove with big splits of that same hickory. I woke up to a cool stove with only a small bed of coals. The inside of the stove and all the latches were bone white, all indicating a real hot and clean overnight burn. When I started up the stove this morning, I used the very same hickory as the night before, except much smaller (and therefore drier) splits. But then I deliberately closed the bypass damper down prematurely and shut the intake air almost all the way to see what would happen. All of that black soot was created in about one hour of a smoldering burn. Which is what I think happened to basswidow, and not some errant damp piece of wood.

For the record, all of the information that I share on this site is intended to help new burners that are having problems with burning to understand how wood burns, not to tell them how they should burn it in their own stoves. I only have experience with half a dozen stoves in my life. I don't sell them, repair them or collect them. But wood burns the same pretty much however you burn it, at least in a regular wood stove. I read all kinds of advice here that seems inaccurate to me, and at times just downright wacky (among the craziest is to go get some kiln-dried wood), but I try to keep an open mind and investigate what is said. 99% of the time I just keep my thoughts about these things to myself because I know that my experiences often run counter to the prevailing wisdom. My methods work for me just about 100% of the time, so that's all I really care about. I see nothing wrong with sharing my system/systems here if it will help a light come on inside some struggling person's head. I never once insisted that anybody follow my way. The assumption on my part is that folks will take everything posted here with a grain of salt and then figure it out on their own.

 

[Jack Straw]

Well thanks for the info on the cracks on the end grain. Your never too old to learn new things. I am on a 2 year drying cycle so I am not too worried about my wood being dry. (I have very little oak and lots of ash)

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Ya- ash dries super fast as it is

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Jack, you have things done right!

 

[Skier76]

1st year burner here so some of my firewood isn't exactly 100% seasoned. I've supplimented with some pallets and dryer pine. I'll add wood slowly so I don't choke down the fire. I find once the box is hot, even wet split will sizzle for a bit, then get up to temp pretty quickly. I'm sure next year will be easier for me. For now, I work with what I have.