Sawmills anyone?

[McKraut]

Good Afternoon,
The closer I get to retirement, the more hobbies I come up with. I spend a lot of time in the woods, but it is never enough. I am starting to think about buying a portable sawmill for myself. I am not interested in doing it as a business, but more in line with milling lumber for the countless number of projects around the house. I am hoping to hear from anyone on the forum that owns their own mill or regularly uses a mill. I expect to spend in the $5K range. I am lucky enough to already have the peripherals (chainsaws, JD tractor w/ FEL, forks, trailers). In the past (and in two weeks) I have helped mill lumber off of my property with a neighbor's Wood Mizer (hired) and the set-up was amazing. Something of that caliber is out of my price range. The drawback with hiring is that I find that I always put off a job until I get enough wood to justify the cost (I usually hire every 2 to 3 years, but wish I did it more often). I am interested in something I can use as the need arises to saw or re-saw boards, blow downs, or for projects.
Thank you,
Bob

 

[Muskoka Guy]

Good Afternoon,
The closer I get to retirement, the more hobbies I come up with. I spend a lot of time in the woods, but it is never enough. I am starting to think about buying a portable sawmill for myself. I am not interested in doing it as a business, but more in line with milling lumber for the countless number of projects around the house. I am hoping to hear from anyone on the forum that owns their own mill or regularly uses a mill. I expect to spend in the $5K range. I am lucky enough to already have the peripherals (chainsaws, JD tractor w/ FEL, forks, trailers). In the past (and in two weeks) I have helped mill lumber off of my property with a neighbor's Wood Mizer (hired) and the set-up was amazing. Something of that caliber is out of my price range. The drawback with hiring is that I find that I always put off a job until I get enough wood to justify the cost (I usually hire every 2 to 3 years, but wish I did it more often). I am interested in something I can use as the need arises to saw or re-saw boards, blow downs, or for projects.
Thank you,
Bob

I to am thinking about a mill, if your on FB there are some groups by Brand or general, I am also thinking in the $5000.00 range I have looked at them all I think, I like the Woodmills saws price and features, if your not on FB. have a look on YouTube. Lots of pro's and con's of all makes. " Let the Sawdust fly" Rick

 

[SpaceBus]

In the $5k range you can do a Logosol mill like I have. The Woodland Mills units from China have decent reviews and happy customers. I have milled a lot of boards with my Logosol and have been very happy with it. Using a saw like a 395xp for milling is loud, but I don't hear much of anything with two layers of hearing protection on. A band mill *could* be faster, but I think you would be spending a lot more than $5k.

 

[McKraut]

I to am thinking about a mill, if your on FB there are some groups by Brand or general, I am also thinking in the $5000.00 range I have looked at them all I think, I like the Woodmills saws price and features, if your not on FB. have a look on YouTube. Lots of pro's and con's of all makes. " Let the Sawdust fly" Rick

I've never been on FB. I do watch a lot of YouTube videos and have read some other forums. From what I've read most people are happy with the set up they have. I am just trying to get an opinion from woodburners to see if there was a different POV. If you get something, let me know!
Bob

 

[McKraut]

In the $5k range you can do a Logosol mill like I have. The Woodland Mills units from China have decent reviews and happy customers. I have milled a lot of boards with my Logosol and have been very happy with it. Using a saw like a 395xp for milling is loud, but I don't hear much of anything with two layers of hearing protection on. A band mill *could* be faster, but I think you would be spending a lot more than $5k.

Thanks for the insight. I looked at the Logosol and I am wondering if you have the chain sawmill or the band sawmill?
Bob

 

[Nealm66]

I bought my first chainsaw mill because it made me sick to firewood some of the beautiful sometimes huge logs that there was just no way to get them out for a self loader. For me it was a lot of trial and error. The YouTube videos didn’t help much. I have since got it down to a successful/rewarding pleasure. In reality, if I was wanting lumber, I would mill cants and haul it to a resaw mill or the like. But there’s a pretty good market for slabs with good character and there’s the ability to mill any length and mill where they lay( within reason) . Fair warning, there’s no easy button with a chainsaw mill in my experience

 

[sweedish]

If you’re just doing it for you, I’d say get a bandsaw mill, if you’re trying to make some money, get a swing arm saw, like a Lucas or Peterson they are a lot faster, but you’re spending 25k vs 5k.

 

[peakbagger]

If your wood supply is unlimited and your need is low a chainsaw mill is a potentially cheap entry point. I personally have an issue at throwing away so much wood due the wide kerf of a chainsaw compared to a bandsaw mill.

 

[SpaceBus]

I bought my first chainsaw mill because it made me sick to firewood some of the beautiful sometimes huge logs that there was just no way to get them out for a self loader. For me it was a lot of trial and error. The YouTube videos didn’t help much. I have since got it down to a successful/rewarding pleasure. In reality, if I was wanting lumber, I would mill cants and haul it to a resaw mill or the like. But there’s a pretty good market for slabs with good character and there’s the ability to mill any length and mill where they lay( within reason) . Fair warning, there’s no easy button with a chainsaw mill in my experience

It took me a good 1,000 bdft to get used to the Logosol and get it dialed into consistent boards.

 

[SpaceBus]

Thanks for the insight. I looked at the Logosol and I am wondering if you have the chain sawmill or the band sawmill?
Bob

Sorry, should have specified. I'm running a Logosol F2+ 6m kit with a 395xp. If I could go back and change anything it would be to get the Logosol hard nose bar and Stihl 63PMX loops and find an adapter to fit the Logosol bar on my Husky. After I build a saw shed and a few other structures I would like to run power to the saw shed and get the Logosol electric Speedsaw. The chainsaw does convert more of the log into sawdust with a larger kerf, but it will not have issues with knots or other tough spots like the bandsaw will. My boards also come off the mill with a smoother finish/cut than a band mill and the chainsaw is easier to sharpen than a bandsaw blade. A bandmill will obviously produce more boards in less time, but the initial investment is much higher.

 

[McKraut]

Sorry, should have specified. I'm running a Logosol F2+ 6m kit with a 395xp. If I could go back and change anything it would be to get the Logosol hard nose bar and Stihl 63PMX loops and find an adapter to fit the Logosol bar on my Husky. After I build a saw shed and a few other structures I would like to run power to the saw shed and get the Logosol electric Speedsaw. The chainsaw does convert more of the log into sawdust with a larger kerf, but it will not have issues with knots or other tough spots like the bandsaw will. My boards also come off the mill with a smoother finish/cut than a band mill and the chainsaw is easier to sharpen than a bandsaw blade. A bandmill will obviously produce more boards in less time, but the initial investment is much higher.

I'm not sure if I'd need another chainsaw for the mill. The largest I have is a Stihl 034 with a 20" bar. As dumb as it sounds, I doubt I could convince my wife to let me get another chainsaw (that would be number 8), but I think the saw mill is a possibility. If you know can you tell me the difference in time it takes to saw a board with your mill compared to a band saw? I've never seen a mill like yours in action, but I have worked with band saws a few times.

 

[McKraut]

If you’re just doing it for you, I’d say get a bandsaw mill, if you’re trying to make some money, get a swing arm saw, like a Lucas or Peterson they are a lot faster, but you’re spending 25k vs 5k.

This is just for me. I am not interested in sawing for others regularly. I have a multitude of projects planned in the next few years and all of them require lumber. I usually plan projects for more than a year so I would be comfortable milling the wood and letting it air dry for a year. I know that sawing looks easy while I am sitting on a couch watching YouTube, but I do think it will be something I will enjoy. I love being outside and out in the woods.

Bob

 

[McKraut]

If your wood supply is unlimited and your need is low a chainsaw mill is a potentially cheap entry point. I personally have an issue at throwing away so much wood due the wide kerf of a chainsaw compared to a bandsaw mill.

The size of the kerf is a consideration, but for me the biggest thing is the speed. I would like to know what the speed differential is between the chainsaw mill and the band saw mill. I have a pretty good supply of wood, but limited supply of time for the next few years.
Bob

 

[Nealm66]

Bandsaw is waay faster

 

[peakbagger]

Yup a bandsaw mill is way faster

 

[Bill in the U.P.]

I had a Logsol M5 for a number of years with a 095 Stihl saw. It cut very nice lumber and I found the speed to be adequate (which is saying a lot because I'm a pretty impatient sort). I liked the fact that I could sharpen the chain and the technology was something I already had experience with.

 

[SpaceBus]

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I don't know about your needs, but none of my sawdust "waste" really goes to waste. We use it for our chickens and alpacas and it will eventually become compost/soil. Bar length is not the limit on the saw, it's really about oiler and torque. You will need a 395xp or Stihl 660 or 880 (or whatever they call them now) to reliably mill boards, but I have gotten by with my husky 460 when my 395xp was down. Something I don't like about bandmills is the way they lubricate, which is to say most folks use diesel and other petroleum lubes. I use canola oil at $6-8/gallon and use about 1/2 gal of canola oil per gallon of premix and haven't had any issues with bar wear. The canola oil flows easier than most bar lube and the 395xp oiler is adjustable. Honestly I keep it about mid range since the canola oil flows so well. The dust from a bandmill is always contaminated with liquid petroleum products.


This style of mill will not have a huge hourly yield like the big Woodmizers or swing blade mills. I'm totally ok with this since I'm just milling lumber for myself. With the 395xp I can mill several 16"+ logs per day, but usually my wife tires of the noise after a few hours. A bandmill isn't exactly quiet, but the frequency range is different and I think it doesn't bother folks as much. The Woodland Mills bandsaw mills also use a lot of Chinese parts and labor and it felt nice to support fair trade by going with the Logosol. Not to judge anyone that buys Chinese, sometimes I buy chinese stuff but try not to.

 

[McKraut]

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I don't know about your needs, but none of my sawdust "waste" really goes to waste. We use it for our chickens and alpacas and it will eventually become compost/soil. Bar length is not the limit on the saw, it's really about oiler and torque. You will need a 395xp or Stihl 660 or 880 (or whatever they call them now) to reliably mill boards, but I have gotten by with my husky 460 when my 395xp was down. Something I don't like about bandmills is the way they lubricate, which is to say most folks use diesel and other petroleum lubes. I use canola oil at $6-8/gallon and use about 1/2 gal of canola oil per gallon of premix and haven't had any issues with bar wear. The canola oil flows easier than most bar lube and the 395xp oiler is adjustable. Honestly I keep it about mid range since the canola oil flows so well. The dust from a bandmill is always contaminated with liquid petroleum products.


This style of mill will not have a huge hourly yield like the big Woodmizers or swing blade mills. I'm totally ok with this since I'm just milling lumber for myself. With the 395xp I can mill several 16"+ logs per day, but usually my wife tires of the noise after a few hours. A bandmill isn't exactly quiet, but the frequency range is different and I think it doesn't bother folks as much. The Woodland Mills bandsaw mills also use a lot of Chinese parts and labor and it felt nice to support fair trade by going with the Logosol. Not to judge anyone that buys Chinese, sometimes I buy chinese stuff but try not to.

The sawmill is a lot faster in the video you posted than I thought it would be. I think it would be have been great to have a few years ago when I was doing a lot of timber framing. The sound of the different sawmills is something that I never would have considered. I have been making a list of the pros and cons of both and I am definitely leaning towards a bandsaw mill. One of the biggest factors is the ability to cut thinner wood. A few list the capability to cut as thin as 1/8inch. I do some woodworking and that would be a big plus. My life would be easier if I won the lottery, then I could buy both.
I am tired of dealing with all the crap that comes from other countries. On an almost weekly basis I deal with: Japanese stiltgrass, Russian olive, Japanese Barberry, mile-a-minute weed, Japanese Beetles, Emerald Ash Borer, and soon the Spotted Lanternfly (I know I've forgotten a few invasive species here). I am a fan of buying American made, but it is almost impossible to find something 100%. We are truly in a global economy. Even my beloved Dewalt tools are "Made in the USA with Global Materials". You can't get away from it. I have nothing against our worldly neighbors but I prefer to buy in my own neighborhood.

Thank you to all who gave me your assistance. This is exactly what I am looking for!

Bob

 

[711mhw]

I just bought a used TimberKing bandmill this past summer, similar use situation as yours. In my long search I decided for myself, a hydraulic mill (log handling and saw operations) was what it would take for it to realistically not end up in the shed after the novelty has worn off. Over the years I've worked around bandmills and circle mills, and even with all the support machinery, there's a ton of physical work that is required and I have plenty of other chores that require that. I have a great logger nearby that saws in bad weather or mud season, and will cut HIS logs for .50c/bd ft and that makes it very hard to justify nearly any mill.*
One thing that I've observed is that as with most "machinery" as long as you don't completely kill it, a mill also will retain much or all of your investment when carefully buying used. I'd be thinking of the entry level Woodmizers, dang near everyone knows of them and they seem to be the "Kubota" of portable mills in terms of the general perception by the public. The little extra up front will return proportionally when you get out or move up.
On the other side of the coin, I can't tell you how rewarding it is to saw out your own lumber for a project, a huge un- anticipated bonus that's hard to put a dollar value on.
Watch (and learn) locally on c/l or other similar markets and just do it.

*I paid $15k for my 20 year old (hobby) mill with a siding jig, unused sharpener and tooth setter along with about 40 blades, half of them new. That saw NOW sells in the $30k range and I'm confident that I could unload my mill for that in "the blink of an eye" and I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for a little more than my purchase price as long as I take good care of it.

 

[SpaceBus]

The sawmill is a lot faster in the video you posted than I thought it would be. I think it would be have been great to have a few years ago when I was doing a lot of timber framing. The sound of the different sawmills is something that I never would have considered. I have been making a list of the pros and cons of both and I am definitely leaning towards a bandsaw mill. One of the biggest factors is the ability to cut thinner wood. A few list the capability to cut as thin as 1/8inch. I do some woodworking and that would be a big plus. My life would be easier if I won the lottery, then I could buy both.
I am tired of dealing with all the crap that comes from other countries. On an almost weekly basis I deal with: Japanese stiltgrass, Russian olive, Japanese Barberry, mile-a-minute weed, Japanese Beetles, Emerald Ash Borer, and soon the Spotted Lanternfly (I know I've forgotten a few invasive species here). I am a fan of buying American made, but it is almost impossible to find something 100%. We are truly in a global economy. Even my beloved Dewalt tools are "Made in the USA with Global Materials". You can't get away from it. I have nothing against our worldly neighbors but I prefer to buy in my own neighborhood.

Thank you to all who gave me your assistance. This is exactly what I am looking for!

Bob

You can't use 1/8 thick band milled wood for anything in woodworking. You have to cut it thicker and plane it so it is smooth. Unless you are going to plane from 1/8 to veneer thickness, in which I guess it will work for you. Surprised to hear you don't like Russian Olive, it is beautiful for woodworking, very dense, and fast growing. The biggest downside to the Logosol mill is manual everything. There is a power feeding option, but I use a hand crank. Logs must be loaded and turned by hand. I get around this by using a "log table" for staging logs with my loader and then I roll those onto the log lifters of the mill. A peavy/cant hook makes it easy work, but I'm not yet old.

There are some US made mills, but they are all bandmills and come at a decent cost. Wood Mizer makes a small band mill starting in the $5k range, but it didn't really appeal to me. There are of course the green chinese mills that keep popping up around where I live, but I think that is the lumber shortage. I had a hard time getting my F2+ to be honest, the vendor, Fox Forestry, was selling them faster than they could get here from Sweden. My mill was the last one in the summer shipping container and they sold the second container load before it showed up as well. My favorite part about the Logosol, aside from low cost of entry, is the comfortable working height. That was something lacking in Alaskan mills and inexpensive band mills.

If things improve economically I'd like to send my 395xp in to get ported to make milling even faster.

 

[McKraut]

I just bought a used TimberKing bandmill this past summer, similar use situation as yours. In my long search I decided for myself, a hydraulic mill (log handling and saw operations) was what it would take for it to realistically not end up in the shed after the novelty has worn off. Over the years I've worked around bandmills and circle mills, and even with all the support machinery, there's a ton of physical work that is required and I have plenty of other chores that require that. I have a great logger nearby that saws in bad weather or mud season, and will cut HIS logs for .50c/bd ft and that makes it very hard to justify nearly any mill.*
One thing that I've observed is that as with most "machinery" as long as you don't completely kill it, a mill also will retain much or all of your investment when carefully buying used. I'd be thinking of the entry level Woodmizers, dang near everyone knows of them and they seem to be the "Kubota" of portable mills in terms of the general perception by the public. The little extra up front will return proportionally when you get out or move up.
On the other side of the coin, I can't tell you how rewarding it is to saw out your own lumber for a project, a huge un- anticipated bonus that's hard to put a dollar value on.
Watch (and learn) locally on c/l or other similar markets and just do it.

*I paid $15k for my 20 year old (hobby) mill with a siding jig, unused sharpener and tooth setter along with about 40 blades, half of them new. That saw NOW sells in the $30k range and I'm confident that I could unload my mill for that in "the blink of an eye" and I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for a little more than my purchase price as long as I take good care of it.

I am always looking for a sawmill for sale but so far have not found anything that I want to invest in. I do understand that it is a lot of work but that is what I love. I get my greatest satisfaction from a good day's honest work. I figure I still have another decade of intensive labor left in this body and I intend to use it all up before I go.
On the other side of the coin, I can't tell you how rewarding it is to saw out your own lumber for a project, a huge un- anticipated bonus that's hard to put a dollar value on.
-- This is the type of stuff that a lot of people don't get but I find the most rewarding. I don't always like doing things the easy way. I find that making/building/constructing projects is a great hobby, but making things from scratch is a unique way of life. There have been many times I have stared at things I have done over the last 40 years on this farm and think to myself "Wow, I did that!". It is a feeling that not much else in my life provides.
I learned a long time ago that it is better to buy quality, and pay for it up front, then it is to buy a bargain and pay for it later (Wow, that really sounds deep, doesn't it? That's a quotable quote and you read it here first). I will bide my time and wait for a quality machine becomes available.
Thanks for your post.
Bob

 

[McKraut]

You can't use 1/8 thick band milled wood for anything in woodworking. You have to cut it thicker and plane it so it is smooth. Unless you are going to plane from 1/8 to veneer thickness, in which I guess it will work for you. Surprised to hear you don't like Russian Olive, it is beautiful for woodworking, very dense, and fast growing. The biggest downside to the Logosol mill is manual everything. There is a power feeding option, but I use a hand crank. Logs must be loaded and turned by hand. I get around this by using a "log table" for staging logs with my loader and then I roll those onto the log lifters of the mill. A peavy/cant hook makes it easy work, but I'm not yet old.

There are some US made mills, but they are all bandmills and come at a decent cost. Wood Mizer makes a small band mill starting in the $5k range, but it didn't really appeal to me. There are of course the green chinese mills that keep popping up around where I live, but I think that is the lumber shortage. I had a hard time getting my F2+ to be honest, the vendor, Fox Forestry, was selling them faster than they could get here from Sweden. My mill was the last one in the summer shipping container and they sold the second container load before it showed up as well. My favorite part about the Logosol, aside from low cost of entry, is the comfortable working height. That was something lacking in Alaskan mills and inexpensive band mills.

If things improve economically I'd like to send my 395xp in to get ported to make milling even faster.

I am planning on using 1/8inch rough sawn oak to make a variety of sizes of fruit and vegetable boxes. I do like the ability to mill whatever thickness I want which is what I don't have when I get it custom milled ( I can mill it/re-saw it as I come up with ideas).
I hate Russian Olive. I have spent the last 15 years trying to eradicate it from our property. I sometimes think the effort is futile when I look at my neighbor's place and see his acres of it. The property acts as a never ending seed bank.That stuff is prolific and has nasty thorns. I went into a thicket of it to cut it down and spent the better part of a day doing it. When I came up I was all cut up and bleeding everywhere. I lost that battle but I am winning the war. I have found a few very tall trunks but never looked at the wood. I will keep an eye out for them and save a few to saw.
I am hoping that after this pandemic has passed, or at least significantly improved, that someone that bought a sawmill because of all of their free time, will get tired of using it. When they decide they are tired of it, I will be waiting to buy it.

Bob

 

[AndrewU]

Having watched a lot of Matt Cremona YT vids, when he was chainsaw milling he had a log that took about 20-30 minutes per pass. He built his own bandsaw mill and finished the cutting on the same log. Those cuts were about 2 minutes per pass. The finish off the band mill was better too.

CSM is great if you just can’t swing the $$ for a bandsaw mill, or if you get wood that’s impossible to extract to a band mill. Otherwise the reduced kerf waste alone can pay for the band mill pretty quickly. Figure on a 30” diameter log you could get an entire extra slab with a band mill. If 8’ long that’s 40bf more extracted from the log (assuming 8/4 thickness) c ompared to a CSM, and at just $5 a bf that’s $200 (depending on species and local market that might be high or low). After 25 such logs the $5k budget is covered.

Combined with the faster cut speed and if you want to make money (or at least not waste as much time that could be spent making money elsewhere) a band mill is hard for a CSM to beat.

If you’re only going to make dimensioned lumber a swing blade mill can be great. But if you want to make live edge slabs it’s not so great.

 

[SpaceBus]

Having watched a lot of Matt Cremona YT vids, when he was chainsaw milling he had a log that took about 20-30 minutes per pass. He built his own bandsaw mill and finished the cutting on the same log. Those cuts were about 2 minutes per pass. The finish off the band mill was better too.

CSM is great if you just can’t swing the $$ for a bandsaw mill, or if you get wood that’s impossible to extract to a band mill. Otherwise the reduced kerf waste alone can pay for the band mill pretty quickly. Figure on a 30” diameter log you could get an entire extra slab with a band mill. If 8’ long that’s 40bf more extracted from the log (assuming 8/4 thickness) c ompared to a CSM, and at just $5 a bf that’s $200 (depending on species and local market that might be high or low). After 25 such logs the $5k budget is covered.

Combined with the faster cut speed and if you want to make money (or at least not waste as much time that could be spent making money elsewhere) a band mill is hard for a CSM to beat.

If you’re only going to make dimensioned lumber a swing blade mill can be great. But if you want to make live edge slabs it’s not so great.

A Logosol CSM makes a cut nearly as fast as a bandsaw mill, faster depending on the bandmill. It would be more accurate to specify an Alaskan mill is very slow. Nobody is using a CSM of any kind to make money unless there is a specific situation that requires an Alaskan mill. It would take a LOT of $200 slabs (what's that market look like anyway?) to make up the huge difference in price between the less $4500 I have invested into my 6m long Logosol mill, including ripping loops, sharpener, etc. and the tens of thousands it would cost for a bandmill fast enough to produce lumber for profit. We all know that a hobby level sawmill is a lot different than a professional grade mill and you could easily spend ten times what I have invested on a nice setup. Admittedly there really aren't alternatives in the CSM market and Logsol pretty much has it cornered. I've seen some nice DIY chainsawmill setups built by welders and other fabricators, but that's not something I would recommend to anyone.

 

[AndrewU]

A Logosol CSM makes a cut nearly as fast as a bandsaw mill, faster depending on the bandmill. It would be more accurate to specify an Alaskan mill is very slow. Nobody is using a CSM of any kind to make money unless there is a specific situation that requires an Alaskan mill. It would take a LOT of $200 slabs (what's that market look like anyway?) to make up the huge difference in price between the less $4500 I have invested into my 6m long Logosol mill, including ripping loops, sharpener, etc. and the tens of thousands it would cost for a bandmill fast enough to produce lumber for profit. We all know that a hobby level sawmill is a lot different than a professional grade mill and you could easily spend ten times what I have invested on a nice setup. Admittedly there really aren't alternatives in the CSM market and Logsol pretty much has it cornered. I've seen some nice DIY chainsawmill setups built by welders and other fabricators, but that's not something I would recommend to anyone.

I must be missing something. How can a Logosol CSM cut faster than an AK mill? Both are using a chainsaw power head and pulling ripping chains through the log, far as I can tell. For the same width of cut on the same species of wood they should cut at exactly the same speed. You can only push it so fast before the saw bogs down, and that won’t change based on the rig guiding the saw.

Does the Logosol system provide a much narrower kerf chain, like 1/4” or 3/16”, vs a 3/8” a typical chainsaw uses? Are you using the chainsaw power head to drive a band saw blade? Those are about the only ways I can see a Logosol getting even close to bandsaw mill cutting speeds, never mind faster. If one of those things are what it does then please tell me more. That might be a great next step for me.