Santa Fe giving me all sorts of problems

[thundermustard]

Let me start with the most recent.
Woken up at 5:30 by our smoke alarms going off (the are Nest Protects which connect to each other).
It was in the bonus room over the garage where our Santa Fe is.
There was no fire in the Santa Fe but the room was full of smoke.
I aired the room out and restarted the fire while I watched the room.
It ran fine for a couple of hours, turned it off, no smoke.
What could have caused that?
I did clean the stove a few minutes ago and it had a fair amount of ash behind the baffles but nothing insane.
The ash draw only has a small amount of ash in it.

 

[johneh]

It is that time of year . Stoves that had a full cleaning from intake to exhaust termination
are now full of ash in every crevas. With your stove, do a full cleaning, including
the leaf blower trick (if you can). Then check to see how it runs

 

[thundermustard]

It is that time of year . Stoves that had a full cleaning from intake to exhaust termination
are now full of ash in every crevas. With your stove, do a full cleaning, including
the leaf blower trick (if you can). Then check to see how it runs

But what could explain that I restarted the fire, doing nothing, and it worked just fine?

 

[johneh]

Not enough fire (heat) to keep the combustion fan running.
Hence, smouldering pellets are in the burn pot and smoke in the house.
maybe you turned the stove down to low?

 

[stovelark]

I was thinking how this could occur, but I'm still not sure. The santa fe t-stat calls for heat, exhaust blower comes on, it drops pellets, ignites and when thermocouple senses ignition (heat build up to 200 degrees in burnpot) it starts feeding again... convection blower comes on when exhaust path warms up snapdisc #1. I'd think the only way smoke could develop and get into the room was if somehow the exhaust blower did not start. But if that was the case, initially it never should have fed pellets to light or smoulder, if exh blower doesn't run, vacuum is not produced, vac sw does not close, allowing the feed cycle to start. Its almost like initial exh blwr started and when pellets dropped and ignition happened (or partial ignition) then exhaust blower shut off for some reason... its weird. And for weird problems, a full complete cleaning as John suggested is in order, and keeping an eye on her for awhile to regain trust... Stay warm.

 

[Whitenuckler]

The pressure switch could be set very low ie 0.05" H2O. A very low amount a combustion air will make it close, and then if you don't have enough air flow the fire would not burn properly and could go out. Then as was mentioned the stove will cool down and shut off. How was the flame before the failure? Do you use OAK?
Vacuum Switch SRV7000-531. ) 0.05" Boy that seems low. My P43 is 0.1"

 

[Ssyko]

No stove uses pressure anymore. They all use vacuum through the stove. I would install an OAK so the smoke dont happen again.

 

[Whitenuckler]

No stove uses pressure anymore. They all use vacuum through the stove. I would install an OAK so the smoke dont happen again.

My mistake. The parts is Vacuum Switch SRV7000-531 as I indicated. Bad habit to use the term pressure for sure as the combustion fan draw a vacuum in the stove and make pressure in the stove pipe.
If there is no OAK, is it possible to make a room air tight enough to loose air? I guess if it was all built super tight with new windows and doors and sealed it could happen. Considering the amount of air the stove is exhausting, it might be possible in the "bonus" room.

 

[stovelark]

Obviously something occurred though to change the way the stove normally operates. The most logical source of the issue is airflow through the stove dropped, causing the stalled operating condition. If nothing else, its always best to eliminate a dirty stove condition initially, and to monitor how stove runs a little more than normal. Stay warm.

 

[thundermustard]

Sorry, been busy for a few days, thanks for all the post.
The stove has not done this since I posted a few days ago. Only difference is I vacuumed out the inside and behind the baffles. Not a complete, spring cleaning.
This stove has been a bit of a lemon for a while now.
It is unreliable at best.
It is in the bonus room over the garage where my wife works out. She will go up there and find it is 48° and the stove is off.
Sometimes the pot will be empty, sometimes it will have unburned pellets in it.
I did have to replace the ignitor a few months ago.
What I typically find is that it doesn't drop enough pellets in the start phase. Switch is on high, feed plate is wide open.
I have vacuumed out the auger area recently.
What happens is it is a low burn, not even over the top of the burn pot. It obviously doesn't trip the heat sensor.
If I hit the reset button on the back after a few seconds the second burst of pellets will get the fire big enough to get going and all is well.
The exhaust goes out of the house parallel to the floor and is on the windward side of the house. It does have an elbow that pivots it away from the wind.
It has been that way for the 5 or 6 years we have had the stove and most of our problems are recent.
I do notice the fire flickering a bit as it tries to start and there is big wind gust.
We have very strong winds from time to time but I will say that they are often enough, and it runs correctly most of the time (except for failing to start up) that I don't think that can be it.
And everything is intermittent. It won't start up tomorrow but it will today, the smoke was a one time event in 6 years.
It is very frustrating.

 

[Ssyko]

Check your ash pan gasket, i changed mine and it was a new stove.

 

[thundermustard]

Check your ash pan gasket, i changed mine and it was a new stove.

My manual is a .pdf on my computer.
I didn't say I cleaned it good, I said after it smoked up the room I vacuumed out the inside and behind the baffles. But that was after a successful run without doing anything.
That is what I meant about everything happening so randomly.
There is no gasket on the ash drawer. It just slides in, metal to metal.

 

[stovelark]

Ssyko may have been referring to the burnpot gasket. Also, check the little half moon that is the ash dump mechanism below burnpot, ensure that is not leaking air, that it fits snug. The Castille (cast stove sister) I believe does have an ashpan gasket, Santa Fe depends on the burnpot ashdump mechanism to seal it. Those stoves have been out since the late 90's, they are a proven design. Not perfect, but if maintained, historically they are a good stove. For the missed ignitions occasions, is the red call light on, but the stove does not start its ignition cycle? On high heat, the feed rate is set to have the flame 6-8" above the burnpot, will your stove not meet this? If not, you could set the control board on +10 percent feed (the control board is used on many units, so Santa Fe has its setting , the Castille has its setting, Classic Bay its setting. They have a +10 setting to account for different lengths of pellets, which sometimes affect the amount it will drop with each auger movement. You have the feeder plate all the way open? Very unusual to have to do that. Are the pellets you are using very long? (>1" in length?) Still, some of the quirkiness you're mentioning would be worth doing a complete cleaning, removing the exhaust blower, cleaning out the exhaust path thoroughly. Ensure also the thermocouple cover is not broken, and the thermocouple itself is pushed all the way in the cover, should hang over about an inch, to inch and a half over into burnpot. Don't give up on her, we just need to figure out what ails it. Keep warm.

 

[thundermustard]

The half moon you describe, that is the part that swivels out of the way to drop the pellets?
If so, when I looked at it this morning it was not snug. I pushed on it and it fell into place.
The pellets are not long, they work just great in the Classic I have downstairs.
I haven't noticed the light. When it doesn't start. This morning I turned on the heat, pellets fell into the pot. The ignitor got red hot, I saw a few embers dance around, after a few minutes I heard a click and saw the ignitor go off. I pushed the reset button and the stove started fine in a few minutes. It just doesn't get enough pellets to drop in the initial call.
If I throw a handful of pellets in before hand it will also start fine.

 

[stovelark]

I have heard of your problem before, it sometimes not starting up on the first dropping of pellets, but resetting and it fire off. I don't believe the initial feed time can be adjusted on the board, the only choice is that extra 10% of auger run time mentioned before. One thing though, is the ignitor slit in front of burnpot clear of debris, so ignition is not being delayed? With my Castille I had, I used it as a continuous running unit, either on low or medium, to prevent such occurrences with missed ignition and trying to save the ignitor, but I see why in your case running it only when it was needed. One more thing, initial feed of pellets normally cover up air holes in burnpot except the two most to the front (we called it snake-eyes when looking at the burnpot), is yours feeding that much? I like your giving it a handful more to help it start, I'd always do that too if I was just starting off... Stay warm.

 

[thundermustard]

The dealer recommends getting in and looking at the full auger assembly to see if there is something keeping a normal batch of pellets from dropping at start up. Anyone have a link for how to get to it?

 

[Whitenuckler]

The dealer recommends getting in and looking at the full auger assembly to see if there is something keeping a normal batch of pellets from dropping at start up. Anyone have a link for how to get to it?

That I cannot help you with. However, can you run it in "test" after letting it burn itself out of pellets? Then when you run it with new pellets and watch you might see how well it works feeding. I would use a different pellet for the test pellet, in case you see some old pellets come out too. If it does not have a test mode, perhaps you can jumper power to the motor after disconnecting from the board.

 

[Ssyko]

Quads don’t have test mode

 

[Ssyko]

Only one i found with a breakdown of assembly.

 

[Ssyko]

Pull motor then pull auger out. If you have room pull it all together

 

[Whitenuckler]

Does that auger pull pellets up on an incline?

 

[Ssyko]

yep

 

[EbS-P]

Switch is on high, feed plate is wide open

Was the feed plate set according to the manual?

 

[stovelark]

The auger screw assembly is held on by two 7/16 nuts forward of the auger motor. Careful, do not drop them after you take them off. You can then back out the screw assembly for inspection. Check to see if the auger spring set screw is tight. The auger motor comes off with little phillips screws. If the auger motor is going bad, it will normally make clicking or mechanical noise. Might not be a bad idea, maybe you have a partial clog in the auger housing, doesn't hurt to check.

 

[stovelark]

i'm not certain and could not find the control board printout, but I do believe position 1 on board will do a sequential test of auger and blowers. Don't think thats going to help, as all have said, I'd pull the auger assembly out and inspect the auger chute. I'd also look up into the pellet drop tube with a mirror and light to see if the drop area has a pellet bridged/jammed by pellet dust too, I'd do that before pulling the auger. With inspection mirrow and light, you'll see the drop hole at top of pellet chute. Stay warm.