Salvaging a chain.............

[WoodMann]

Hey guys,
hit a rock yesterday as I was raising a stump so nautally I had to come back to base and sharpen the chain. thin is that when I got back out to the spot the saw would make a curved grrove, causing me to finish the cut with the nose of the bar. I always thought a bench monted disc type grinder was a good idea to return a chain to uniform angles..........

Edit; or would the money be better spent on a new chain, at 11 bucks a pop..........

 

[Corey]

Yes - I think that is about the only time to really use a bench grinder - when heavy amounts of stock need to be removed to repair damage. Otherwise a [insert method of choice here (file, dremmel, stone, etc)] is all you need for a touch up.

With that said, it sounds like you didn't remove enough stock to completely eliminate the damage or the grinder is adjusted incorrectly giving odd angle cuts. The last thing would be wear of the bar causing the chain to cut the curve, but it sounds like the issue started immediately after the rock encounter/sharpening - so most likely something to do with the damage to the chain or the sharpening itself.

 

[WoodMann]

That's the thing, cozy- I don't have a bench grinder, I sharpen with a bastard file and guide. I most always notice that the file is geting more of a bite when filing one side than the other, guess I'm gonna hafta look more closely at every thing...............................

 

[savageactor7]

The thing with a bench grinder is that you have to peck at the chain or it will lose its temper. Eyeball that chain carefully if there's any evidence of bluing where you ground...then save that chain for squaring off Christmas tree butts cause that's all the chains good for. Generally if the chain is cutting down and to the left it means the left side teeth are sharper than the right.

 

[WoodMann]

That's my big fear, blueing the chain. I don't have a benchgrinder, I was just thinking if that could be the nirvannah for chain sharpening. I'm gonna try eye- balling the chain a little closer. Some things are still in development, I've been cutting wood for heat since mid- 2007 and yesterday was my first outing with the trailer.............

 

[Kong]

First off there is no reason on earth that a chain grinder has to take off more material at a pass than hand grinding other than the operator was inpatient. Yes, they are the way to fix a chain that has been badly damaged.

When you sharpen a chain you can't just use any old Bastard file, you need one that that is the same continous diameter end to end. Like almost all files they only cut in one direction and will quickly dull if you try to file in two directions - let me say that again, if you try to file in two directions the file will quickly dull. They (with rare exceptions) are made to cut only when pushing away from yourself.

Next thing is the file must be held up out of the cutter's gullet to cut the edge at the proper angle, that means you need a file guide. The file guide will ride on the top of the cutter and the top of the raker and hold the file at the optimum depth to obtain the edge you need for cutting, it is also the reason you need to use the proper diameter file.

The final thing is holding the correct angle. The angle is marked on the file guide and some chains have the angle marked on top of the cutters as well. Its easy to see and hard to misinterpret.

Why is it cutting a circle? Two reasons. One is the cutters are uneven and the other is the guidebar is worn out. If your chain rides upright and when lose can't be tilted very much from upright you are OK. Most of them cut circles because of uneven sharpening, the cutters on one side of the chain are longer overall than the other side. You can get some sort of caliper and measure them and then make corrections by hand, or for a few bucks you cah take the chain to a place that will put it on their machine and recut the angles. Here that costs $7 off the saw and $10 on it.


My chains cost more than yours, $15 to $18 each. I cut about 10 cords of firewood per year as well as using the saw for other minor cutting duties. I usually buy one or two chains per year. I don't send them out to be sharpened, but I'm good about counting file strokes so my chains remain pretty even right down to the end. Even at that before next year is over I will own a grinder. The only question is how much am I willing to spend on it.

Grinders vary in price a lot. For those sharpeners readily available you might spend between $35 and $450 for one, The high end standard for home or light industrial use is Oregon's 511AX. The things are made in Italy, apparently the only manufacturer on earth that makes the things other than Chineese knockoffs. Oregon has one higher model, it has a hydraulic apparatus to hold the chain in place that automatically deploys compared to a manual device on others. There are other company names too, but they are all the same. Your money buys you a cast metal body if you want the good one, cheaper ones are plastic. There are some $100 units that have been well received, I believe Northern Tool or one of thos discounters sells one that people like; aparently they are OK once you replace the cheap grinding wheels they come with.

The thing about the grinders, just like hand filing, is that if you don't let the chain get too dull then you don't have to take too much metal off to get it right again. So its really kind of a myth that grinders take off too much metal, its really more like people take chains to grinders when they need way too much metal taken off because something very bad happened to them. When that hapens the operator simply has to take their time getting it back in shape - and if that takes one little nib at a time so be it, but thats really not the same thing as everyday use. If you had a grinder and used it regularly, say after every day's use, then you could set it up to take off very little metal to bring our chains back to factory-new condition. You see, that's not what is being done to it when its already hit a rock - its really talking about using a grinder for two different purposes. So I'd say buy one and it is my recommendation that you buy the best one you can. Oh, Stihl makes one too, but I have no idea how much it cost but I'm sure the cost would be staggering.

 

[WoodMann]

Thanks- I currently use a guide and bastard file, not a tapered rat tailed file. Here's a pic. And yes I'm aware of filing in one direction, what I was saying in fileing side to side that one side I seemed to get more bite was when I turn the saw around to file the other cutters it seems that I get a better leverage angle with my left hand and therefore get a sharper edge on the one side than the other..................

 

[ROBERT F]

Getting the angle, pressure, and stroke even on both sides of the chain is key to hand filing. thats were the practice comes in. took me about 2 years to get "good" at it. and that was sharpining about 40-50 times a cutting season. every now and then still get one that pulls a little, and have to re-do it.

 

[Kong]

Woodmann,

I read in your post that you knew how a file is supposed to be used, but I've read so many posts by guys who thing you can see-saw a file back and forth and that's the way its supposed to work, which as we well know it ain't.

On that getting the hang of filing I can make two suggestions that may help a bit. The first is find a way to secure the saw at a comfortable working height*. You can not file a chain properly with the saw sliding all over the tailgate of a truck or on a wet stump. I don't touch my chain unless the guide bar is secured in my vice where it can't move a bit. As luck would have it my vice swivels and can be locked on its base, I was able to turn and mark my vice at 30 degrees on both sides which makes filing even easier.

So that's the first suggestion, lock down the saw somehow. Second suggestion is to file with light strokes. Put just enough pressure on the file so you can feel it bite but not so much that the stoke chatters across the file. That allows you to concentrate on holding the file steady but of course; Count your strokes!


* height is a matter of preference but I find it best to have the cutters and file just below shoulder level. It allows me to hold the file steady and rock the full weight of my body to actually do the filing.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Rocks suck :ahhh:

Many people (aka pros) can fix rock damage on-site. I can't. Some people can't hand sharpen as good as they think they can.

I bought a bench grinder. Works very well. In fact, so well that I don't sharpen by hand at all any more. Yeah, it probably shortens the cahin life a bit. But when I 'go cut', I want to cut, not push a saw through wood. I carry spare chains now so I know I can get a full cutting session in despite any rocks.

Jimbo

 

[WoodMann]

Thanks guys- I'm gonna pack some chains along too now on. I've also thought about a vise to secure the bar, here's what I currently do, see the little round at the bottom of the bar? my only concern doing it this way is holding the file level, granted I could prolly sit on a 5 gallon pail so I'd be at eye level on this. Right now money is tighter than ever, I cooked the motherboard on my Dad's computer so I hafta get'em a new mobo as well as getting gifts and everything that goes with the holidays. Here's a pic of a file guide I'd been thinking about, and look at that- it's made in Italy...........

 

[jebatty]

The Pferd is the easiest and best hand sharpener I've ever tried and still use. A touch-up filing after each tank of gas keeps the chain in great condition.

 

[freeburn]

Thanks guys- I'm gonna pack some chains along too now on. I've also thought about a vise to secure the bar, here's what I currently do, see the little round at the bottom of the bar? my only concern doing it this way is holding the file level, granted I could prolly sit on a 5 gallon pail so I'd be at eye level on this. Right now money is tighter than ever, I cooked the motherboard on my Dad's computer so I hafta get'em a new mobo as well as getting gifts and everything that goes with the holidays. Here's a pic of a file guide I'd been thinking about, and look at that- it's made in Italy...........

I was thinking about getting this one too. $35 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Oregon-23736A...?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1261536090&sr=8-13. Seems like a pretty easy way to get a precise and unaltered cut on each tooth. Anyone have any experience with this sharpener?

Otherwise there is this one too - http://www.amazon.com/Granberg-Bar-Mount-Chain-Sharpener-G-106B/dp/B0002ZY1WG/ref=pd_cp_hi_1

 

[TMonter]

I used of the the oregon bar mount sharpeners and it works well. It takes a few uses to get the hang of it but once you do you get a sharp chain every time which is nice.

 

[John_M]

Woodman, A couple of months ago there were a few excellent threads about sharpening chains in the DIY forum. Suggest you check these out for much specificity about techniques and practices.

Best wishes,

John_M

 

[WoodMann]

Thanks John, I'll check'em out...................

 

[John_M]

Woodman, I just rechecked my post. Those excellent threads about chain sharpening appear in this forum -"The Gear" and not in the DIY forum. Those additionsl threads add to the very good suggestions posted in this thread. Sorry about my error.

John_M

 

[SWI Don]

Woodman

Are your teeth the same length? Is your chain tight in the bar groove? Is the the edge of the bar perpendicular to the sides of the bar? No burrs on the edge?

Filing more on one side than the other is pretty common. Most people are more adept with one hand than the other. If at home clamp the bar in a bench vise, tighten the chain so it is snug and file. You can loosen the chain a bit after filing.

Rig up some sort of caliper or go gage to get your teeth all the same. Take two pieces of flat, a feeler gage set and a vice grip and make a go gage that doesn't quite go over the shortest tooth on the chain. File all of the teeth until you can just get the go gage over each tooth.

If your bar is wallowed out the best thing is to get a new bar. They make bar groove closers to get another round of wear out of a bar but it probably doesn't make sense for a homeowner to have one.

Bars can get worn crooked and there is a file by Pferd that will straighten them up. Make sure you don't have burr on the edge of the bar.

Hope you get to the bottom of the problem.

Don

 

[WoodMann]

Thanks guys- I'll let y'all know. I'm good with wood for right now and I'm holding down 2 forts so the way is on the back burner. I can't think that it's the bar, though I'll check it as it's fairly new. My folks just got me the Oregon file guide for Christmas so things are looking good.

 

[WoodMann]

Woodman

Are your teeth the same length? Is your chain tight in the bar groove?

Don

Ah, a few more pecious nuggets of information. I have a longer learning curve, guys- but I get there, too. Thanks for the advice..................

 

[precaud]

Mark, I have a grinder here, so if you don't get it done with your new file guide drop me a PM.

 

[WoodMann]

10-4, Thanks. I've got your number.....................

 

[precaud]

I've got your number.....................

The last time someone said that to me, it wasn't with good intent...

 

[WoodMann]

Hey guys, everythings gereat. I salvaged the chain, cuts almost duantingly well! THing I always noticed when free hand sharpening with that light guide cutting performance would fall off gradually with each sharpening; prolly because I get a good bite filing one side more than the other..............

 

[precaud]

Glad to hear you got it. By hand, I always get more bite on the port side of the chain, too.