Rookie looking for advice on 80's set up

[From Aus]

Hi All

Apologies now as I am an absolute rookie here. I grew up with a woodburning fireplace in New England and so have a very romantic view of them. I just moved to Missouri and bought my first house and it has an old fireplace from 1984. My husband and I would LOVE to have a function wood burning fireplace but we have a situation and would very much value any expert advice from you all. He is Australian and excited about winter and a fireplace

The situation:
- The old fireplace was converted to gas by previous owner and isn't working properly - I am too scared to mess around with the gas to try to get it to work
- We want to convert back to wood burning for warmth (in addition to our furnace) and ambiance for our ground level 1500 sq ft and if it can help provide heat to the upstairs, even better.
- I had the fireplace professionally inspected and these are the notes from his assessment: 1- Firebox has rust damage. Fireplace has a vent less gas log set which goes against manufacturer instructions. Firebox dome appears to be compromised, it shows signs of overheating. 2.- Damper is functional. 3.- Flue liner - chamber transition has a gap around. 4.- Roof stack is in good condition. FIREPLACE ISMNOT LONGER SAFE TO USE, REPLACEMENT IS RECOMMENDED
- So we need to replace the fireplace box which will require removing the drywall in the room behind the fireplace as there is a large brick wall in front of the fireplace.
- My crazy engineer dad felt that it might be possible to cut out the box, measure matching pieces and weld a new box in place to avoid having to tear through a wall. I got excited about this idea and then realized it might not be safe or up to code.
- The frame of the fireplace which I can see is 43in wide and 31in tall (no idea how big behind the brick) and the box part is about 29in x 20in. Not sure how much this matters

Our goals:
- Install a new fireplace box, remove gas, and repair gap around flue liner.
- We are hoping to keep project costs below $5k if possible and are interested in value for money for renos. If it is really worth it we can go higher in budget.
- Would be good to use a tax credit if it makes sense
- Ideally the new set up would be up to code
- We plan to sit in front of the fire in winter so it should look nice

Questions:
- What should be my first step? How to pick a good contractor to help?
- Any recommendations on the best fireplace to buy for this situation considering value for money?


Many thanks in advance for the help and suggestions!!

 

[begreen]

If this is for a zero-clearance fireplace replacement, the budget is too small and it is unlikely that the tax credit would apply. There aren't many EPA ZC fireplaces that qualify for the tax credit. An alternative might be the total removal, and replacement with a freestanding stove. but even that will be stretching the budget of $5k. Need more info.

 

[From Aus]

OK, I had to google zero clearance and I think that would be right as the fireplace is in a wall but I think we would also be open to a freestanding stove. Probably the ZC fireplace would look better in the brick wall space currently there? Are there any other details that I could provide? What would be a better budget to plan for? Good to know

 

[begreen]

There are a lot of threads on ZC replacement. The budget for a modern, EPA unit replacement will depend on how tall the chimney is, but the fireplace and the chimney alone can add up to over $8,000 pretty quickly. No telling how high this will go after tariffs hit.

Can you post a picture of the entire wall so we get the full picture?

 

[From Aus]

ok, picture attached of the wall. Behind the wall is a room and the inspector mentioned that it would be easy to go through the back of the wall and just redo the dry wall in that room after. This is the ground floor so it goes up through the second floor - a tall chimney. The flue is apparently in very good condition still so I am hoping that just the fireplace needs to be replaced. That is also something the inspector said was possible.

I think I am looking for an insert but not sure.

 

[begreen]

Great. Yes, the inspector is correct. In some cases addressing this from the rear can be more practical though it is rare to match the opening size with a new ZC and one must be sure that the construction for the old fireplace is safe enough for the new, ZC that will be producing a lot more heat. The deep recess of the fireplace is not helping it heat. That may need to be surgically removed, especially if it does not meet the new ZC requirements.

The chimney must match the new fireplace's requirements too. Modern EPA fireplaces usually use a better quality, higher temperature chimney than the basic ZC fireplaces. It probably will need replacement too. That can be half the cost.

 

[Rickb]

ok, picture attached of the wall. Behind the wall is a room and the inspector mentioned that it would be easy to go through the back of the wall and just redo the dry wall in that room after. This is the ground floor so it goes up through the second floor - a tall chimney. The flue is apparently in very good condition still so I am hoping that just the fireplace needs to be replaced. That is also something the inspector said was possible.

I think I am looking for an insert but not sure.

An insert would be used if you had a full masonry fireplace.

 

[Brawndo71]

ok, picture attached of the wall. Behind the wall is a room and the inspector mentioned that it would be easy to go through the back of the wall and just redo the dry wall in that room after. This is the ground floor so it goes up through the second floor - a tall chimney. The flue is apparently in very good condition still so I am hoping that just the fireplace needs to be replaced. That is also something the inspector said was possible.

I think I am looking for an insert but not sure.

I have been putting together a project to go from my old Heatilator fireplace to a high efficiency fireplace, such as from Osburn. Complete tear out, install of high eff and chimney, and rebuild of brick veneer. Estimates are ~$17000 and up. Maybe if I knew how to do the brick veneer it would lower the cost. What area of MO are you in? I've contacted maybe 4 fireplace contractors so far. Even looking at fireplaces that don't meet the 2020 EPA standards, other fireplaces still have clearance to combustibles to meet.

 

[From Aus]

Thanks for the feedback. I am in the St Louis area. I was really hoping to somehow avoid a full rebuild and over $10k to fix Any recommendations on where/how to go about finding a good contractor to help with the details?

 

[Brawndo71]

If you reside in the StL county, a new install has to be permitted. Retro-fit one, maybe? Any EPA 2020 high efficiency needs all the extra work and chimney. Wiegmann and Hechlers are two names I've looked into that deal in high efficient fireplace models that fit my space. I haven't asked to install a similar ZC as to what I have now, as they just aren't efficient.

 

[Rickb]

yea anything in STL or STL county requires a lot of permits. I'm south and in Jefferson county. That said i have found no good stove people in the area. Went out to troy mo to hechlers. They were awesome but they didn't do installs this far. i was doing the install myself so it worked out.

Either way wont matter you need a Zero Clearance fireplace and will probably need to rebuild the whole thing or just tear the whole thing out and make it a stand alone stove.

 

[From Aus]

Thanks All, it seems this project will be a lot more intensive and pricey than what the inspector communicated. We are starting to talk to contractors about quotes. One interesting point is that people seem to have different answers around whether a high efficient insert could be put in or not.

 

[begreen]

Thanks All, it seems this project will be a lot more intensive and pricey than what the inspector communicated. We are starting to talk to contractors about quotes. One interesting point is that people seem to have different answers around whether a high efficient insert could be put in or not.

Anything can be done if enough money is sunk into the project. The main pushback is with the $5k budget. There are less expensive solutions, but if the desire is to replace the current ZC with a modern, EPA ZC it can be done. How much refitting or changing of the facade will depend on the new ZC size and requirements and whether matching brick can be found if needed. Until the old ZC is removed and the chase construction is determined, most estimates will be somewhat speculative and on the high side to cover the unknowns.