Researching for our first wood burning insert.

[bholler]

Hi Poindexter and EbS-P, as well as others: Thanks for all the good info...stoves, wood, etc... While the two living rooms on each side of the house are both good-sized...15 x 30, we're really not set up in either room to allow for a free-standing unit, hence utilize the existing fireplace hole.

Each floor is zoned, and we tend to keep the upstairs zone turned back. My additional thought is I would also install 3 small 'pass-throughs' to the 3 immediate rooms upstairs that are above the room our insert would be in (both kids' bedrooms and a small play room. This will aid in some supplemental heat going to those rooms from the stove.

From a budgeting standpoint, I was thinking 10k would have me ready to fire it up.

Thanks again, I'm learning quite a bit.

$10k should be more than enough even with our current inflated prices

 

[Poindexter]

Couple items. I have been trying to think of encouraging things to say to the star student this decade.

I have an inlaw who runs ultra marathons. If he doesn't lose all ten toenails on a 'short' 50 miler he feels like he should have tried harder. So kudos for you for even trying those. I am the fat guy at mile 48 sitting on a lawn chair with a cooler of beer beside me wishing you well.

Hall and parlor? If you are in a timber framed hall and parlor (in the lower 48) , with the generous fireplace you have described in the central hall at ground level, you are more or less the ideal candidate to 'get away' with an insert. I don't like inserts. I live in the north half of Alaska, and I buy hundreds of millions of BTUs every year. To me, up here at 64 degrees north latitude, an insert is a poor compromise. In the lower 48 in a hall and parlor, with a south facing front door, central spacious fireplace, and then a stairwell on the north wall of the central hall, you are in high cotton. That house was built to deal with an insert.

Your priority one right now is to pick your top 3-5 units that will fit your existing fireplace, get on the phone asking about due dates and whip out your visa card on whatever is in your top five with a reasonable due date. I am a BK fanboi and don't pretend otherwise. If a BK Princess insert would fit and can be installed in mid October I would be done shopping.

Priority 2 is choose an installer. You are going to need an insulated liner in your existing chimney, and it is going to be several thousand dollars. If you find someone who knows what they are doing but you don't want the installer to meet your teenage daughter, send the kid to do campus tours at like U of Vermont or Radcliff or something.

You DO want a blockoff plate. I don't even own an insert, but I have been active here for several years. I have never once heard someone here say a blockoff plate between insert and fireplace chimney was a waste of money. I regularly hear folks say installing a blockoff plate made a huge difference in the perceived performance of their insert.

Priority 3 is going to be to look at your wood shed again. Average, in the lower 48, is about 4 cords per year. Can your wood shed hold 8 cords? Do you have 8 cords split and stacked? I burn about 8 cords per year up here, and I had my wood (just saying) for August 2022 stacked and starting to season in March.

Your priority one is still to get an insert on order, but while you are waiting for installers to call you back (P2) you can be getting going on your wood pile. If you do have 4 cords of eastern hardwoods split recently as of this weekend, you are not at game over for October 2022 but winter is coming (to coin a phrase) and you are running out of time.

There is a guy here, @Woodsplitter67 , in New Jersey, who has a passive solar firewood kiln system that is coming up with some impressive results as far as drying east coast hardwoods from standing green to ready to burn (<20%MC ) in one season.

His most recent thread is here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/solar-kiln-for-hardwoods-part-deux.175875/

I found an intermediate thread here, haven't found his original experiment: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fall-winter-seasoning-in-mini-kilns.189629/


Also, the passthroughs you are thinking about are effective, but they will give your local fire chief severe heartburn and would probably have to be reversed if you ever want to sell the house. They are good for passing heat from the insert up to the upper level, but they are really really good at facilitating a small trash can fire to having the entire building engulfed mui pronto. If you really want to heat the upstairs from the ground level you want a hall- parlor- parlor- hall floor plan, with the wood burner in one hall and cold air coming down the stairs at the other end.

Good luck and best wishes. You are going to be sitting pretty in Sep 2024.

 

[BKVP]

Wood that is >20% moisture content will result in degraded wood stove performance and lower heat output. Most hardwood takes at least 2 yrs to season. Ash being the exception. Wood purchased now most likely will not be fully seasoned, regardless of the seller's claims, unless it sells at a very high premium. Consider enlarging the shed if possible.

The OP wrote "My interest in a CAT stove is lower temp, cleaner and longer burn time".

OP, multiple studies have shown what in addition to what BeGreen pointed out, even the slightest increase in moisture can increase PM (particulate matter) and decrease the "cleaner" burning you are seeking. Try to get wood split down to a small enough size to help drying of fuel. Larger pieces, desirable for increased burn times can take up to 2 years to get below 20% in most regions of the USA.

 

[BKVP]

Clearances for the catalytic BK AF25 for example.

View attachment 296719

For the Regency CI2700
View attachment 296720

BeGreen,

Where did you pull the spec for the AF25 insert? We must have an old file somewhere. Here are the correct mantel clearances with significant reductions.

 

[BKVP]

Couple thoughts is the current heating in the house zoned? If you run a cat stove on 12 hour reloads your primary heat source will probably come on regularly December to mid February. That’s fine but a big secondary combustion insert could be $1-2k less expensive. You could burn fast and hot and I’m guessing The primary heat would be used the same amount. What’s your budget?

BKs are 12 weeks out minimum right now.

Our turn around time is model specific. 12 weeks is about correct for certain models. Also, the 25D Tax credit is only for completed installations by 12/31/2022. If a dealer handles the installation, there is of course their schedule to keep in mind as well.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I’ve just started researching inserts for this coming winter. Install will be going into a typical fireplace box. House is a traditional center-hall colonial, 3000 sq. ft, that I completely opened up on first floor. My plan would be to primarily heat with the insert, and supplement only when necessary. I would go with a catalytic, but would consider a hybrid unless there are reasons not to.

Insert recommendations appreciated.

Thank You.

Where are u at with your wood supply.. Connecticut can be a tough place to season firewood in a short time depending on where u are and elevation..

 

[begreen]

BeGreen,

Where did you pull the spec for the AF25 insert? We must have an old file somewhere. Here are the correct mantel clearances with significant reductions.

That's good to know. I got it from the 2018 manual. Looks like it has been updated with the 2020 certification? Going from 38" to 20" is a huge difference, almost half. The Sirocco25 had the same 38" mantel clearance pre-2020. What changed?

PS: When I went to get the new manual, the one posted on the site is in French.

Ashford 25 - Blaze King

The Ashford 25 is a medium sized fireplace insert. At 2.3 cu. ft., the firebox will take up to a 22" log and can deliver warmth for up to 25 hours on low. The Ashford 25 is very clean and efficient and can heat from 400 - 1,600 sq. ft. The door features a large, 24" x 11", wide-screen glass...

www.blazeking.com

 

[BKVP]

That's good to know. I got it from the 2018 manual. Looks like it has been updated with the 2020 certification? Going from 38" to 20" is a huge difference, almost half. The Sirocco25 had the same 38" mantel clearance pre-2020. What changed?

PS: When I went to get the new manual, the one posted on the site is in French.

Ashford 25 - Blaze King

The Ashford 25 is a medium sized fireplace insert. At 2.3 cu. ft., the firebox will take up to a 22" log and can deliver warmth for up to 25 hours on low. The Ashford 25 is very clean and efficient and can heat from 400 - 1,600 sq. ft. The door features a large, 24" x 11", wide-screen glass...

www.blazeking.com

The original versions required a special section of ultra heavy duty liner (custom made for us) to the first 36". We added a baffle and that cured the issue of the added section of liner (which came with the unit) and dealers liked using the liners they each sell. The benefit is it reduced mantel clearance by quite a bit....

 

[begreen]

That's a great improvement and a win all around. With that big of a change, I would expect a model number update to 25.1.

 

[BKVP]

That's a great improvement and a win all around. With that big of a change, I would expect a model number update to 25.1.

Unfortunately model change designation is would require recertification! EPA is very concerned about model number changes, seems too many things were tried in the past!

 

[begreen]

Yes, but this is such a major change that we need to be careful when providing info on clearances. When was this change made and how does one know which version the insert is if the unit is sold used? Did this happen after the 2020 certification?

 

[BKVP]

Yes, but this is such a major change that we need to be careful when providing info on clearances. When was this change made and how does one know which version the insert is if the unit is sold used? Did this happen after the 2020 certification?

The change was made prior to 2020 certification, or that would have triggered a retest. Our site has been updated since the change. Perhaps you keep older documents elsewhere? Where did you pull up the older clearances? Thanks for pointing out the French version, that link will be fixed.

 

[begreen]

I keep old manuals as well as new ones. We get a lot of inquiries for old stove installations and new. And we often see folks here with other issues with older stoves so it helps with understanding how to service them. I've added the latest manual for the Sirocco 25 to the collection and will download the new AF25 manual too.

 

[Ultrarunner]

Been moving along. Wood shed is nearly roofed so stacking of wood to begin shortly. There is a Regency dealer near me and I have quotes for both the Pro Series Ci2700 and the Cascade i2500. Both look very comparable, with my leaning toward the more efficient Cascade unit. The latter is also quite a bit shorter, so not much manipulation in placement of my combustable material, and without having to use the OEM's heat shield. Visually, I like the bump out of the Cascade. The two units are within 300 bucks of each other, and each well under what I had anticipated for a budget, including install, and both are available in a couple of weeks. Pluses for the Pro series are a larger viewing area, but I think that's minor for our room depth, and it's taking slightly larger logs...but not an issue with the size of my splits. Steady as she goes....

 

[Ashful]

I thought I was the only person on earth to use Simpson framing connectors in combination with hand-hewn timber, although you've certainly found a new way to do it! In my case, it was just a few post bases, to keep the timber off the concrete.

 

[Ultrarunner]

Yep, its more than needed, as plenty of air will be able to move through the shed, with no worry of the roof lifting off, I just like to over-build ;-)

The joist hangers on the lower forward "decorative" beam I will remove, once I shoot some long screws in, so the original tenons will show. I didn't have enough 14 foot beams so had to go with the lumber 4 x 4's at the front, but have enough of the barn material to wrap them to blend in with the crowd.

I have enough structural barn posts left over (stuff that folks in Old Greenwich use for mantles) that I'll likely sink a couple and do a lower shed roof off the hidden back side and back, so as to have more covered area for wood storage. When done, maybe 6-8 cords under cover. I have 30 feet of covered front porch of the house that'll store a fair amount without have to stack too high over windows. So, easy logistics for daily-log loading, and I can restock easy enough from the shed.

Should be a reasonable setup and easy for wifey and kiddos to restock the stove when I'm on a trip. Fun times.

 

[Silversniper]

Goodness. I thought the treatment I received was bad enough, but here is someone else asking a reasonably straightforward request for advice and being bombarded with unsolicited admonishment for not using dry wood.

Why have a sticky about dry wood, if these threads don’t stay on topic?

 

[Ashful]

Goodness. I thought the treatment I received was bad enough, but here is someone else asking a reasonably straightforward request for advice and being bombarded with unsolicited admonishment for not using dry wood.

Why have a sticky about dry wood, if these threads don’t stay on topic?

I think the OP's original questions were answered. But to answer your question:

Because, despite there being a sticky on it, the vast majority of problems new burners bring to this forum are the result of wet wood, and because an ounce of prevention is always worth a pound of cure.

I'd guess very few bother even reading that sticky topic.

 

[Niro]

My two cents; we bought a lopi Large last year for the looks and it was the largest that could fit. We also have colonial approx 2800 Sq. It is a great stove and we use the boiler as a secondary back up. On the 10 most coldest nights it's unable to heat upstairs adequately but I have the zone set to 65 min.

Fortunately we have a second fireplace in a "formal living room" but now my home office and we are not "formal living room" people. I'm insearch of a second unit to really ramp up the wood burning. The Lopi in the Family room with open concept does a great job of off setting, Although I didn't get the 26% tax credit, I still saved a bunch on oil and we love the look.

My advice is get the one you love they are all so efficient anyway.

 

[Ultrarunner]

My two cents; we bought a lopi Large last year for the looks and it was the largest that could fit. We also have colonial approx 2800 Sq. It is a great stove and we use the boiler as a secondary back up. On the 10 most coldest nights it's unable to heat upstairs adequately but I have the zone set to 65 min.

Fortunately we have a second fireplace in a "formal living room" but now my home office and we are not "formal living room" people. I'm insearch of a second unit to really ramp up the wood burning. The Lopi in the Family room with open concept does a great job of off setting, Although I didn't get the 26% tax credit, I still saved a bunch on oil and we love the look.

My advice is get the one you love they are all so efficient anyway.

View attachment 297003

I’m going for the most efficient unit Incan get, generally, that will fit in the hole. Which isn’t that hard as I have a good sized opening. Aesthetics, while important, are second on the list. We both like the looks of the units we are looking at.

 

[Ultrarunner]

So, the moisture tester is handy. Put it on the most demanding setting and poked all over my wood pile. Highest setting I saw was 13 percent or so. Given the fact that this woods performance in a fire-pit would make a 'gender-reveal fire starer' proud, I suspected it was fairly dry

 

[bholler]

So, the moisture tester is handy. Put it on the most demanding setting and poked all over my wood pile. Highest setting I saw was 13 percent or so. Given the fact that this woods performance in a fire-pit would make a 'gender-reveal fire starer' proud, I suspected it was fairly dry

Did you split each piece open and test on a fresh split face?

 

[bholler]

I’m going for the most efficient unit Incan get, generally, that will fit in the hole. Which isn’t that hard as I have a good sized opening. Aesthetics, while important, are second on the list. We both like the looks of the units we are looking at.

I would recommend not obsessing of a point or two of efficency. In real world operation that is going to mean absolutely nothing.

 

[Ultrarunner]

Did you split each piece open and test on a fresh split face?

I did and those random pieces averaged out to around 15%, with the highest at 17%. Again, I scrolled the tester to display the highest setting.

 

[bholler]

I did and those random pieces averaged out to around 15%, with the highest at 17%. Again, I scrolled the tester to display the highest setting.

Good any test that isn't on a fresh split face means nothing. But if you are getting 15 to 17 on a fresh split face you should have no problems