Replacing my Fisher papa bear

[bcrtops]

It's 53F outside and we are heating with the woodstove. It's comfortable and fine inside, not overheated at all. Living room is at 74ºF. There are many more degrees with a non-cat besides hot and hotter.

Well said & very true!
We are in the same/similar weather pattern & close to the same inside & outside temps -- burning right along!

 

[begreen]

Darn, temp just dropped to 49º in about 15 minutes. Crazy weather.

 

[Highbeam]

It's 53F outside and we are heating with the woodstove. It's comfortable and fine inside, not overheated at all. Living room is at 74ºF. There are many more degrees with a non-cat besides hot and hotter.

Of course. My non-cat is ice cold right now! Filled with wood and ready to start though. Looks like summer arrives tomorrow.

 

[bholler]

I never bash non-cats. Are you smoking crack?

so you didnt say this?
"air leaks on a noncat are not nearly as big a problem as on a cat stove. There are many full throttle, unregulated, intentional, air "leaks" built into the noncat stove. Uncontrollable by design"

or this?
"I don't bother trying to leak test or dollar bill test this gap because who freaking cares? Right inside the door is a dime sized hole feeding full throttle unregulated air into the fire from the doghouse."

or this?
"Seriously, it's a non-cat. Full of holes. Swiss cheese from the factory."

or this?
"The only way to create the outside corner is to push the steel around a die. You have to over flex it so that the corner is 90 degrees when off the die. This means that the area between the two corners will not be 180 degrees."

 

[tarzan]

It's 53F outside and we are heating with the woodstove. It's comfortable and fine inside, not overheated at all. Living room is at 74ºF. There are many more degrees with a non-cat besides hot and hotter.

Begreen heating with wood at 53F outside temp What gives?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The Summit baffle is nice if someone other than you load the stove. Possibly your spouse or kids... I am very careful to not hit the NC30 burn tubes and baffles, others may not be so careful. With the Summit this is not an issue.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

The baffle was a big reason behind the purchase of the T5.
But I never had any real problems with the baffle on the 30. I did have some concerns though. It's narrower than the firebox, letting smoke around the edges. I solved this by stuffing kaowool around the edges so smoke had to go the path I wanted it too. I have a burn tube that never had the securing screw tapped. Unfortunately it had hardened by the time I'd noticed it and drill bits and self tappers skid across the metal I'd like to put a hole in. It really isn't an issue though. After 7 years, I'm pretty good at reinstalling it when it falls in a hot stove. I guess the point is, I never had any real trouble with the baffle and its reported brittleness. I've hit mine with numerous rounds.

I liked the baffle of the Century better than the Englander. It was firebrick. I could whack the smack out of it and not have any issues.

I could never keep the glass clean. I've seen this attributed to the doghouse air. It never bothered me though. The stove is in the basement. I don't new to look at the fire. The same wood left me with clean glass on both the century and PE.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Begreen heating with wood at 53F outside temp What gives?

He probably can't find socks... And besides, socks and sandals clash.

 

[kennyp2339]

I don't mean to put down cat stoves at all if you have a need to burn low and slow often they are a great solution. Also if you mainly have access to soft woods I think they work much better with them because they slow down the really fast burn of soft woods. But non cats can also work very well and they cost less to buy and take less to maintain. It all comes down to your needs.

True that, After switching from a tube stove to a cat stove, my honest opinion is still mixed, the cat stove seems much more sensitive to wood between 20 -25 % (yes I has some wet pieces) than the tube stove, but the cat stove also burned at a more solid plan.
The firebox in the cat stove stayed much cooler than the tube stove on low, but because the cat was positioned right under the top plate there was a hotspot that was hotter than the tube stove on low, then because have that long flat heat curve temps in the house were easier to control, staying consistent for long +14hrs at a time, but hardly no radiant heat from the front glass area, because you are essentially smoldering the fire.
Now when it got real cold out (single digits) the cat stove's burn time was just like the epa stove, but imo the epa stove (like a NC30 or PE) would burn better as the whole stove would be hotter and you would get a ton of radiant heat.
So really to each his own in this dept, there is no magic stove that will cover all bases, unless you have a super tight house with an open floor plan that allows the perfect convective loop to setup.
My plan of action is to possibly build an addition onto my existing house, put the cat stove in that room and run a tube stove in the basement for that extra oomph we need every once in a while, but I'm a realist I guess.

 

[begreen]

Begreen heating with wood at 53F outside temp What gives?

I know, it's crazy. Temps got down to 43F last night. We had an overnight guest with a medical condition and wanted her comfortable and cozy. She arrived chilly and damp, so I warmed up the house for her with a nice fire she could stand in front of. It worked and the cat is real happy too. Temp dropped from 53 to 48 in the last hour. Can't wait for it to dry out and warm up later in the week.

 

[Highbeam]

so you didnt say this?
"air leaks on a noncat are not nearly as big a problem as on a cat stove. There are many full throttle, unregulated, intentional, air "leaks" built into the noncat stove. Uncontrollable by design"

or this?
"I don't bother trying to leak test or dollar bill test this gap because who freaking cares? Right inside the door is a dime sized hole feeding full throttle unregulated air into the fire from the doghouse."

or this?
"Seriously, it's a non-cat. Full of holes. Swiss cheese from the factory."

or this?
"The only way to create the outside corner is to push the steel around a die. You have to over flex it so that the corner is 90 degrees when off the die. This means that the area between the two corners will not be 180 degrees."

You mistook the above for bashing? That's ridiculous. Those are not negative things at all, just the facts, it's how they work. Really, you need to step back and rethink how you interpret things man.

 

[bholler]

You mistook the above for bashing? That's ridiculous. Those are not negative things at all, just the facts, it's how they work. Really, you need to step back and rethink how you interpret things man.

The problem is that those things are not by any means true of all non cats. The air is carefully directed where the designers want it directed at specific levels just like a cat stove. You say air leaks don't matter which could not be further from the truth.

 

[Highbeam]

The problem is that those things are not by any means true of all non cats. The air is carefully directed where the designers want it directed at specific levels just like a cat stove. You say air leaks don't matter which could not be further from the truth.

That's not what I said. Some air leaks do matter, like big ones, like a broken door glass. Please contribute more and criticize less. We're all here to help. I believe that lots of stoves would fit the OP's listed needs.

 

[bholler]

That's not what I said. Some air leaks do matter, like big ones, like a broken door glass. Please contribute more and criticize less. We're all here to help. I believe that lots of stoves would fit the OP's listed needs.

That is absolutly what you said. And yes i am critical of installs that is my job. I am also critical of people giving innacurate or misleading info.

 

[Highbeam]

That is absolutly what you said. And yes i am critical of installs that is my job. I am also critical of people giving innacurate or misleading info.

Nope. I read all of the quotes you posted without links and don't see that. Read carefully, words matter. Regardless, that has NOTHING to do with this thread and you are not being helpful. You are being rude and confrontational.

 

[begreen]

 

[bholler]

View attachment 197522

I have been to that hotel lol.

 

[BKVP]

Hell I live in that hotel!

Let me weigh in and not get shot...since I am the manufacturer. The benefit to our products isn't a cat vs non cat fight....that argument has been around since 1983, and just like the Hatfield and McCoys, it will probably continue. I do think that unless you have specific experience with the stove model being discussed, you should contribute in a manner that is constructive (that means everyone) and not comment on the stove itself. I can't comment on Dodge trucks because I only have owned Fords. I can tell you why the 7.3 is awesome and my 6 speed manual tranny is amazing, but if I had never driven one, pulled 12 huge 60' trees at one time etc., etc., I would not say a word. Does my love of the truck I own make any other truck less impressive, not in the least! But you might think I'm a fan but in reality....I'm the OWNER of one.

So, let's talk about the fuel. All cordwood, regardless of species, is not a metered fuel for heat output. (Unless you make it into pellets).

What you get with a bimetallic coil spring thermostat is the ability to have a "shock absorber" for the natural uneven burning nature of the fuel. I have at my disposal much better lab equipment and data that most participants on this site. I can tell you unequivocally, a manual control damper cannot compensate for the unmetered characteristics of cordwood unless it is tended continually by an operator. This applies to cat and non cat (let's call them what they are, secondary combustion stoves) alike.

The reason many folks love the stoves isn't because they are catalytic, it's because of the even heat (bimetallic thermostat), long burn times (bimetallic thermostat) ability to burn at 550f and not 1176f (ok that one's a cat attribute).

Let the OP learn that each of us has something to contribute. Stick to what you know and what you burn. Don't weigh in even if you think someone has been over zealous. The OP's will figure it out on their own.

So, I'm in California and just drove down from Lake Tahoe. It was snowing man! Next week I'll be in Minneapolis. My offer to buy a beer to anyone in the area has now been moved up...I'll buy you a drop of good Irish whisky. (No "e" in whiskey in Ireland).

Best to all, be cool minded, remember our goal to help others and move on.

As we said in the early 70's....I'm outta here.

BKVP

 

[begreen]

Good point. We have found that the cast iron cladding on our stove also acts as a shock absorber too. It acts like a flywheel absorbing the ramp up of high heat and then gently releasing it hours after the fire has died down. BK makes the Ashford series which is also cast iron clad and should provide the best of both worlds, but that may be too fancy for the basement setting and not all that necessary. Seems like the Princess would get the job done fine. Insulate that knee wall area to reduce heat loss.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'll second the shock absorber effect. Swinging out the trivets lessens it a bit as it opens the top to let the plate steel do its job.

 

[Mike M.]

Mostly oaks, maple, ash, and birch. Lucky to have a nice selection. Lots of dead standing behind my house. As far as softwood, I usually have a pile of popal and pine and is burned in the spring and fall or cut up for kindling. But mostly kindling.

I figured you had hardwood in WI. Pretty much the same selection I have. The only thing to keep in mind is the wood will coal up in the new stove. This takes some getting used to. Make sure to open the air wide open during the end of the burn to burn down of the coals. If the stove is sized right this may not be an issue at all.

 

[BKVP]

And rake the coals forward where the airwash may be and that too will burn hardwood coals down a bit quicker...

 

[45cheese]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't you want a hot bed of coals on a reload?

 

[bholler]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't you want a hot bed of coals on a reload?

Yes but some have problems with to.much coal buildup. I usually dont but it can happen

 

[BKVP]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't you want a hot bed of coals on a reload?

If you have a larger firebox, a layer of coals is fine, and helpful. However, if you have a smaller firebox, it can limit how much fuel you can fit into the stove on reloads.

This tends to happen when you have very cold temps, push the stove harder to a higher burn rate and lastly, because that's a burning characteristic of hardwood fuels.

 

[Highbeam]

If you have a larger firebox, a layer of coals is fine, and helpful. However, if you have a smaller firebox, it can limit how much fuel you can fit into the stove on reloads.

This tends to happen when you have very cold temps, push the stove harder to a higher burn rate and lastly, because that's a burning characteristic of hardwood fuels.

A thin bed of coals is fine but if you are running a stove hard you will get too many coals, not enough heat output (coals burn colder), and no room for more fuel. Happens with softwood too! Here's my NC30 in a high coal situation burning doug fir. I run my non-cat at high output all the time so I've been down this road! Some people have even had to shovel out the red coals to make room for fresh fuel. Note that if your stove is loafing along at lower settings and/or you don't need high output you can wait for the coals to reduce naturally before reloading and this isn't a problem.