Really bad/annoying problem with my pellet stove. Please help?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Your tee and two 90 elbows starts you off at 15 and that is about the limit for a 3 inch flue.

Your 2' + 2 ' of horizontal adds 4 to that making it 19 which is over and then how much vertical pipe do you have ?

I think you may need 4" flue in order for that poor stove to properly draw.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

BTW if this is the case I think it maybe the reason the other stove also had problems.

 

[MCPO]

eyeaml337,

Could you tell us about your exhaust system?

Does the owners manual have a set of timings for the feed system?

Lastly, have you verified that your air path is sealed?

Sure thing. My pipe/chimney is set up that basically right out of the stove is my T and then that shoots upward. i then have a 90 degree elbow that goes 2' into the thimble and through the wall (i believe this is another 2' or so) once outside i had to go up off the ground so i finished it off with another 90 degree and a straight shot up and then the standard kit cap out there. (i can illustrate this if needed via my awesome MSPaint skills lol) i was considering potentially getting another T with a cleanout for the outside pipe but was told that it woudlnt be needed and also upon visual inspection there was no debris or clog at that 90 degree upward elbow there.

The fresh air is set up a good 6' away from the exhaust and isnt clogged

I have gone piece by piece and quadruple checked everything for air flow out of the pipe. nothing leaks that i can see, feel, or detect. Everything seems ok ... obvioulsy not but whatever is wrong with this thing - i am absolutely AMAZED

Doesn`t sound like a very efficient exhaust vent to me, especially at only 3". No wonder you have problems. There was no debris or clogs probably cause nothing got thru it, maybe not even the exhaust.
But as you say you are " pissed " huh?

 

[eyeaml337]

well every store sells the same 3" pipe kit for pellet stoves, and via store/englander/home depot/lowes/friends/family that have pellet stoves I was told that the kit was fine and that I could add if needed. I think we added a single 90 degree to the kit. other than that its what came in the box. ripping my 3" out and replacing with 4" doesnt sound like a good time at all and i checked with the depot and lowes and neither has the 4" pellet pipe in a kit or sold standalone ...

 

[eyeaml337]

also, on the outside it is a pretty strong amount of air/wind/smoke/etc blowing out - and when the stove is hot and operational it gets out there very well ... the first unit was tested by a tech from an auth reseller of englander in my area on site at one point and he couldnt figure out what was wrong with it either so it was deemed defective.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Yes every store sells 3" vent kits and yes you can in fact add to it.

However, that third 90 degree elbow is more than a minor addition (it is the same as adding 10' of vertical or 5' of horizontal vent pipe).

Why do you actually need the that additional 90 degree (air flow restriction) bend?

Since we are examining your air piping what kind of weather/small animal protection do you have on the end of the OAK?

 

[eyeaml337]

Yes every store sells 3" vent kits and yes you can in fact add to it.

However, that third 90 degree elbow is more than a minor addition (it is the same as adding 10' of vertical or 5' of horizontal vent pipe).

Why do you actually need the that additional 90 degree (air flow restriction) bend?

Since we are examining your air piping what kind of weather/small animal protection do you have on the end of the OAK?

So I needed it to get the exhaust higher off the ground really but I can probably figure a way around it such as large rocks instead of dirt and leaves etc. I just didnt want the ground to go up in flames. it is approximately 32" off the ground without running it upwards. I could just take off that 90 degree and put the exhaust there and maybe point it at an angle instead of straight at the ground right? would that work? is there a minimum clearance from exhaust to ground? i imagine that the heat coming out would be able to ignite things correct? lol i could put a small pond back there under it :-D

So the OAK i have set up the way the kit tells you to do it with the deflector plate - that is up and away from the ground etc. I thought about boxing it in with some 2x4's etc but it seemed unnecessary. it has the screen and all that from the kit and hasnt been clogged or invaded by animals.

 

[eyeaml337]

also just found this about the 4" pipe dealio:

Through-the-wall 4" Pellet Vent Kit for high-altitude installations (over 4,000 ft.). Contains all the parts needed for most (high-altitude) pellet installations. Comes with 3" - 4" increaser, so it will work with our stoves (or others) with 3" diameter exhaust.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Actually the 4" is a requirement at high altitudes and may be needed at any altitude depending upon the amount of air flow resistance produced by the exhaust system.

Does your stove have a manual draft control, if so how did you set it?

And you have a PM.

 

[eyeaml337]

4" might make sense or if removing one of the 90s would work as well ... seems like that is a major pain point for my piping right?

no manual draft control that i know of. the only options are the ones on the board which basically is pellete feed rate (1) burn air (9) and air on temp (1) the AoT just makes the room blower kick on at a low temp and factory setting is 1. actually 1-9-1 is factory setting now according to Englander.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What is directly under where the vent would hit if you removed the outside 90 degree elbow?

If that is concrete or dirt or rocks then you should be fine. If it is grass etc... my stove install book says 24" from the top of any combustible items.

 

[PunKid8888]

Could you remove the final bend before the vertical stack on the out side and run the stove like that for testing purposes. See if it helps out the stove?

 

[eyeaml337]

What is directly under where the vent would hit if you removed the outside 90 degree elbow?

If that is concrete or dirt or rocks then you should be fine. If it is grass etc... my stove install book says 24" from the top of any combustible items.

I 2x check my book just in case but since it is dirt (weeds grow sometimes but i have roundup) and i happen to have a good 1/2 cu.yd left of crushed stone I will dump the crushed rock there and remove the 90. Should know within a few hours if this will work. Just have to do it after work I'll be home at about 5pm so that wont be until about 8pm EST tonight for a full test of it.

Other than the obvious no clogging is there anything else I should look for? More heat? better flame? Indicators that it may be the problem solver?

Also, while I'm out there ... should I bother boxing in the OAK intake? I have plenty of PT scrap to do it if its needed ...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Flying ash embers but not flying pellets in the stove is a good start ;-).

Oh please don't mention cu yards of anything related to snow, rock, loam, or manure. My back starts complaining when it hears such things.

I wouldn't touch that OAK.

 

[eyeaml337]

Flying ash embers but not flying pellets in the stove is a good start ;-).

Oh please don't mention cu yards of anything related to snow, rock, loam, or manure. My back starts complaining when it hears such things.

I wouldn't touch that OAK.

haha i have my girlfriend at home right now digging down an extra 12" then filling it with "stuff" and then when i get home i'm taking that 90 off. I'm tempted to leave work early for this because I'm so excited by the possibility of fixing it rather than dealing with a new stove LOL!

 

[PunKid8888]

Now thats a girlfriend worth keeping.

How is the soil by you? mine is pretty much frozen solid can't imagine it being much fun

 

[eyeaml337]

she said its not horribly solid and i told her that she didnt have to do it if it was too hard. maybe it will work out. if not oh well ill just dump rock :-D

 

[MCPO]

If I was in your situation I`d remove the verticle section and vent the stove straight out (temporarily) just to see if this causes the stove operation to improve dramatically.
It`s a shame to have to depend upon sales people at HD or other stores but unless you pay more for the professional services of a legitimate dealer you really have to do your homework and or be knowledgeable regarding pellet stove installations.
Most claims given by most products are almost always sugar coated and usually the best possible conditions / situation and all too often don`t mention any of the countless variations for obvious reasons that aren`t obvious to the consumer.

 

[eyeaml337]

does anyone have a chart or formula handy for calculating things properly. I am kind of curious. I guess also what the proper requirements would be as well.

 

[eyeaml337]

disassembled the pipe - dumped some rock and have a bunch of good non flammable clearance from things. will run tests tonight as it is supposed to snow and be mighty cold in the next few days. negative temps this weekend etc. so HOPEFULLY removing the 90 degree and more direct venting will help. if not ... oh boy!

 

[MCPO]

disassembled the pipe - dumped some rock and have a bunch of good non flammable clearance from things. will run tests tonight as it is supposed to snow and be mighty cold in the next few days. negative temps this weekend etc. so HOPEFULLY removing the 90 degree and more direct venting will help. if not ... oh boy!

Well , if nothing else it should give you an indication of whether the vent is the problem or not.

 

[eyeaml337]

Driving home in this wonderful weather we are having stuck LOL. No luck still piles up. I'll keep the new pipe confit though since it looks better on the outside of my house

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

How long does it take to pile up?

Did the amount of time change?

 

[eyeaml337]

roughly 1.25 hours. Before it was maybe 10-15 minutes faster. I could probably shut off clean and restart and get a different time though. Know what I mean? All in all I'd say it didn't make a noticeable difference or maybe no difference not that I *want* to but if I say moved the entire stove outside and ran no pipe would that even be something I should try or consider trying?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

No to the last of the items, no need to take the stove out.

I still have plenty of questions since you are likely still close to the cut off point on that exhaust system.

Does that stove have two augers, and a shallow sloping fire pot that should allow the ash to be pushed out of the pot by the feed of new pellets from the back of the fire pot?

Is it the burning pellets that are in danger of falling out of the pot or will the ash be what falls out?

My unit is a drop feed and the ash can only leave the pot via being ejected by air when disturbed by incoming pellets or by the air flow through the firepot.

The other thing is since the stove has an OAK does the outside end of the OAK have any guard that covers it?