Re-figuring my house, heat and circulation.

[BrianN]

Thanks Fort. I'll get it figured out here soon. As mentioned before, a whole lot better in the house than it was last year.
My wife mentioned to me the other day that she does not miss the fan from the pellet stove at all blowing at her while sitting on the couch watching tv.

 

[Ash]

Hey Ash,
I simply cut holes in my basement ceiling and main level flooring then fitted the holes with 4" x 10" duct grates that would normally be used in a forced air system.
I didn't do any duct work between, just aligned the ceiling and floor holes.
I would have liked to go bigger but we couldn't find larger grates that both my wife and I liked the style of.
There is a local code here that doesn't allow any type of ducting over a woodstove so I didn't locate any grates straight above the stove.
Definitely check with your local building and woodstove installation code.

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Thanks wiser and thanks for the photos. Looks great.

 

[Hogwildz]

64F aint' that bad if that is at the end of the burn in the morning as you wake up.
Are you loading that thing full and opening up the thermostat?
Say it ain't so that the mighty blaze king can't keep up?

 

[begreen]

Hey Ash,
I simply cut holes in my basement ceiling and main level flooring then fitted the holes with 4" x 10" duct grates that would normally be used in a forced air system.
I didn't do any duct work between, just aligned the ceiling and floor holes.
I would have liked to go bigger but we couldn't find larger grates that both my wife and I liked the style of.
There is a local code here that doesn't allow any type of ducting over a woodstove so I didn't locate any grates straight above the stove.
Definitely check with your local building and woodstove installation code.

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4" x 10" vents are nibbling at the edges and much too small to get a good convective flow going. Also, between floor penetrations require a fusible link fire damper. You can find a wide variety of register grilles and fusible link dampers at www.atlantasupply.com.

 

[mfetcho]

4" x 10" vents are nibbling at the edges and much too small to get a good convective flow going. Also, between floor penetrations require a fusible link fire damper. You can find a wide variety of register grilles and fusible link dampers at www.atlantasupply.com.

A fusible link damper? Does it close when the link melts during a fire?

 

[Hogwildz]

A fusible link damper? Does it close when the link melts during a fire?

Yeap, then it flaps shut to slow flame spread between floors.

 

[Fort Wisers]

4" x 10" vents are nibbling at the edges and much too small to get a good convective flow going. Also, between floor penetrations require a fusible link fire damper. You can find a wide variety of register grilles and fusible link dampers at www.atlantasupply.com.

I do argee that 4x10 is very small for the use, but again we chose them because we couldn't find anything that suited the look we wanted and figured some convection has got to be better than nothing.
In our case they have served the purpose we needed.

I can't say I had ever heard of fusible link dampers before this post......
When I was first thinking of cutting holes in the floor I consulted a WETT cert'd installer in our area to ensure I was fine to do what I proposed.
The only thing he mentioned is that the vents could not be located directly over the stove for fire spread reasons.
Either he was simply going easy on me or our local building codes are much less stringent.
I took a quick look through some building code docs and only found mention of these dampers in walls that must meet fire break code.
Thanks for the great info, it has got my curiosty piqued!

If I have mis-lead, I apologize....

 

[Ash]

I do argee that 4x10 is very small for the use, but again we chose them because we couldn't find anything that suited the look we wanted and figured some convection has got to be better than nothing.
In our case they have served the purpose we needed.

I can't say I had ever heard of fisble link dampers before this post......
When I was first thinking of cutting holes in the floor I consulted a WETT cert'd installer in our area to ensure I was fine to do what I proposed.
The only thing he mentioned is that the vents could not be located directly over the stove for fire spread reasons.
Either he was simply going easy on me or our local building codes are much less stringent.
I took a quick look through some building code docs and only found mention of these dampers in walls that must meet fire break code.
Thanks for the great info, it has got my curiosty piqued!

If I have mis-lead, I apologize....

Have not mis-lead here. I've looked into if they were required here earlier.
Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Fusible link damper info has been posted here several times a year, for many years. There are lots of decorative registers at the provided site. There is a point where function has to trump form if the goal is to have a working solution. A 4 x 10 vent is tiny, bathroom vent sized.

 

[Fort Wisers]

Fusible link damper info has been posted here several times a year, for many years. There are lots of decorative registers at the provided site. There is a point where function has to trump form if the goal is to have a working solution. A 4 x 10 vent is tiny, bathroom vent sized.

Sorry I'm relatively new to the forum......still searching through all the good info......

Yes a 4x10 vent is tiny, but in our case they have accomplished the task required. Previous to putting the vents in (4 of them), the temperature differential was about 4-5 degrees C between the basement (where the woodstove is located) and our main floor.
Now, with the vents, even on the coldest days the differential is generally 2-3 degrees C.
I'm not saying that this size vent will work for everyone, I'm just expressing what worked for us.

 

[area_man]

4" x 10" vents are nibbling at the edges and much too small to get a good convective flow going. Also, between floor penetrations require a fusible link fire damper. You can find a wide variety of register grilles and fusible link dampers at www.atlantasupply.com.

Well thank you for that, friend. That link just answered a number of questions.

 

[altmartion]

4 by 10 is a small vent, but sometimes the bigger you go the more out of place and worse they can look. you want it to look decent. or at least I do. I would also think that they need to be at least 10 feet away because if you were to run ductwork it has to be 10 feet away.

 

[Hogwildz]

Oh where is Elk when you need him...

 

[webbie]

Oh where is Elk when you need him...

A lot of these questions come up - folks have finished basements, so then what? Many of them, like in split levels, are actually part of the house (no door between downstairs and upstairs)....

I'm not an expert on building codes, but it would seem to me that either the lack of a door between the spaces (assuming they've been inspected for code at some recent time...like when the house sold, etc.), means that vents would be fair game....

It would be nice to have the various interpretations of this to refer to.

 

[BrianN]

Well, off I go to my stove dealer. He has an O.A.K. adapter plate for my King for $20, then, I have to go to the hardware store to get some vent pipe and wall plates. Should be able to get it all for under $50.
Hope that I have the time and ambition to have it done and installed today before I go to work.
And, that it is my magical cure all for my heat circulation.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hope it works out for ya. Trial and error usually prevails.

 

[BrianN]

Alright. O.A.K. is installed, fans are off, stove is fueled and ready to roar. I did however, forget to purchase a wall plate for the inside wall. Ooops, sure the wife won't like the looks of that. Now, to just sit back and see if it makes any difference.
Only time will tell now, but, as I have to head out to work soon, I won't know until I get home at around 1:30am. With the temps getting to -25 (-13), I hope that it works.
If not, I'm not too worried, only $50 and about an hours time put in. Then, I will look at doing some thing else that may help.

 

[BrianN]

64F aint' that bad if that is at the end of the burn in the morning as you wake up.
Are you loading that thing full and opening up the thermostat?
Say it ain't so that the mighty blaze king can't keep up?

I load it pretty full. I don't cram it full up though. I usually load it when I get home about 1:30, then, the wife will put a few splits in when she gets up. Then I will fill it again before I leave for work in the afternoon.
The thermostat is usually set between 2 and 2.5. I will be cranking it up more this weekend when I can keep an eye on it. I am a bit scared because when I set it up to 2.5 the cat probe pins out well over the "active" zone.
Hope fully with the O.A.K. in there now, that may help. Not sure if it will, but, we'll see.
I'm sure that the king will keep up, as soon as I get every thing figured out. Sure do wish I had some good hard wood though. I'm sure that would help out a lot.

 

[Hogwildz]

Tell ya what, that is a nice job!
You cut it in nice and tight, might not even need a wall plate back there.
You did put a screen outside to keep the critters out right?
Fine job!

 

[BrianN]

Thanks Hogwildz. Wife said I don't need a wall plate on the inside either. Looks good just like that.
Yes, there is a screen on the outside to keep critters out, but, for now, it is just out the wall into the garage. Not to worry though, there are no vehicles parked in the garage.
I don't think that this was a cure for my air distribution, if anything, it is hindering it.
Now, I am really not sure what to do.
I guess onto my next idea.
I am going out today and going to buy some really smokey incense. The stuff we have does not produce enough smoke. (Maybe I can convince the wife into letting me buy a nice cigar?) and see how the air is moving around.
Now, this is getting frustrating.

 

[saladdin]

I thought it would be a breeze, but, I think it is our bay windows in the living room, as that is the coldest room down stairs, plus, the windows are old.
I am looking for an incense that burns with more smoke so that I can look for drafts. I can't feel drafts, but, there has to be cold air coming from some where. I am also thinking of getting a home evaluation done.
As for now though, I will keep the wood flowing, the king cranked and the fan blowing.
It is still way better than last year. Where I couldn't even get our living room to stay at 20

Use this instead of incense.

http://www.amazon.com/Smoke-Pencil-Draft-Detector-Puffer/dp/B00746F5HG/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1386440102&sr=1-1&keywords=smoke pencil

Research windows. The number I've seen is 10% of heat is lost due to windows. People blame windows instead of the leaks from uninsulated casing. Try this to see if it helps. Read lots of people who pay a crap ton for new windows thinking that will help and it doesn't.

http://www.amazon.com/Duck-281506-10-Window-Insulator-420-Inch/dp/B002GKC2GW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386440297&sr=8-1&keywords=ducks window film

I use one of these for the room with the pellet stove to move air.
http://www.amazon.com/Thru-Wall-Roo...=1386440629&sr=8-1&keywords=thru+the+wall+fan



I should have paid more attention in school to Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

4" x 10" vents are nibbling at the edges and much too small to get a good convective flow going. Also, between floor penetrations require a fusible link fire damper. You can find a wide variety of register grilles and fusible link dampers at www.atlantasupply.com.

I don't know about the USA, but I can tell you that in Canada building codes vary from region to region and after 30 years of being in the building industry in Canada I've never heard any code restrictions about putting air circulation holes between floors, or any requirement to install said "fusible links" in residential one family dwellings. That isn't to say there isn't some somewhere, but the restrictions, if they are there, might not even be in any actual building codes. For instance, my woodstove in my garage is required to have an elevated hearth that is 18" off the floor. That requirement is not part of any building code, but rather part of the WETT requirements that you will probably need before insurance companies will insure you.
The fact is the area where I currently live is one of the rare areas that has no "building code" restrictions, except for septic and electrical, but I was still required to get WETT certification on my hearth, stove and chimney in order to get home insurance. I passed the WETT requirement no problem, and even had the insurance company come out and take pictures of the hearth. And yes I do have a 4x10" vent hole cut in the ceiling in a storage room immediately behind my stove, but that wasn't even questioned.
I cut the hole hoping air would flow upstairs, but as it turned out the convective flow actually went the other way, flowing cooler air down into that storage room, which actually worked better because it creates a natural flow of warm air up the stairwell that flows through the upstairs rooms and spills down through that vent eventually returning to the stove. I am actually planing to improve on this by installing a larger in floor vent and installing an in wall fan that blows the air directly out of that storage room and directly over the back and top of the woodstove.
The main thing WETT looks for is certified stoves and flue components, and required clearances to flammable objects.

 

[altmartion]

I don't know about the USA, but I can tell you that in Canada building codes vary from region to region and after 30 years of being in the building industry in Canada I've never heard any code restrictions about putting air circulation holes between floors, or any requirement to install said "fusible links" in residential one family dwellings. That isn't to say there isn't some somewhere, but the restrictions, if they are there, might not even be in any actual building codes. For instance, my woodstove in my garage is required to have an elevated hearth that is 18" off the floor. That requirement is not part of any building code, but rather part of the WETT requirements that you will probably need before insurance companies will insure you.
The fact is the area where I currently live is one of the rare areas that has no "building code" restrictions, except for septic and electrical, but I was still required to get WETT certification on my hearth, stove and chimney in order to get home insurance. I passed the WETT requirement no problem, and even had the insurance company come out and take pictures of the hearth. And yes I do have a 4x10" vent hole cut in the ceiling in a storage room immediately behind my stove, but that wasn't even questioned.
I cut the hole hoping air would flow upstairs, but as it turned out the convective flow actually went the other way, flowing cooler air down into that storage room, which actually worked better because it creates a natural flow of warm air up the stairwell that flows through the upstairs rooms and spills down through that vent eventually returning to the stove. I am actually planing to improve on this by installing a larger in floor vent and installing an in wall fan that blows the air directly out of that storage room and directly over the back and top of the woodstove.
The main thing WETT looks for is certified stoves and flue components, and required clearances to flammable objects.

It may be more of a co danger than a fire hazard. like I said before, any return air ducting within 10 feet of heating appliance must be sealed. this is to reduce the chance of co being distributed via ducting. maybe this is part of the "open register" concern. plus the obvious smoke and fire hazard. but they make automation stuff to control this. I am not sure the cost of the stuff though. personally, if you have a GOOD co detector and smoke alarm you are safer than a mechanical part that is iffy from the start. and a lot of them are a one time only.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

It may be more of a co danger than a fire hazard. like I said before, any return air ducting within 10 feet of heating appliance must be sealed. this is to reduce the chance of co being distributed via ducting. maybe this is part of the "open register" concern. plus the obvious smoke and fire hazard. but they make automation stuff to control this. I am not sure the cost of the stuff though. personally, if you have a GOOD co detector and smoke alarm you are safer than a mechanical part that is iffy from the start. and a lot of them are a one time only.

I can agree with that, smoke detectors and co detectors are much better bets than fusible link vents.
That thing about air duct returns being 10 feet away is definitely a co risk, but one would think a properly installed and functioning OAK would nullify that risk.
As to the fusible link in vents between floors, that is definitely a fire hazard risk issue, and is certainly a building code in commercial buildings and multifamily dwellings. In fact they have very strict codes about fireproof barrier breaks between floors and walls in such places, but those codes don't generally apply in floor levels and walls in single family dwellings, however I am just now thinking of one exception in single family dwelling where they do require a fire resistant break with no vents or holes, and that is the walls and ceiling between attached garages and the actual dwelling part of a home. So Brian installing his OAK into the garage may actually be breaking some code? But if he doesn't keep any cars in the garage, and the insurance company doesn't have any issues with it, I don't think there is any real risk.

 

[altmartion]

I can agree with that, smoke detectors and co detectors are much better bets than fusible link vents.
That thing about air duct returns being 10 feet away is definitely a co risk, but one would think a properly installed and functioning OAK would nullify that risk.
As to the fusible link in vents between floors, that is definitely a fire hazard risk issue, and is certainly a building code in commercial buildings and multifamily dwellings. In fact they have very strict codes about fireproof barrier breaks between floors and walls in such places, but those codes don't generally apply in floor levels and walls in single family dwellings, however I am just now thinking of one exception in single family dwelling where they do require a fire resistant break with no vents or holes, and that is the walls and ceiling between attached garages and the actual dwelling part of a home. So Brian installing his OAK into the garage may actually be breaking some code? But if he doesn't keep any cars in the garage, and the insurance company doesn't have any issues with it, I don't think there is any real risk.

I don't think there is any "real world" danger. someone else may see it different. the theory on the garage may be the same as a window called "intent of use" or something like that. an oak I don't think would change it. I install high efficiency systems that draw combustion air from outside and I still have to seal the ductwork.