RE: Brake rotors

[bholler]

Should and actually are separate things. Sometimes brake systems are under-designed. Early Honda Accords had weak rotors that were undersized for the car. I pick them out because I owned 2, though this is not unique. We live in hilly and mountainous country. These early Accords were notorious for rotor failure after having to brake a lot coming down a steep mountain or long hills. You could feel it both in brake fade as they got hot and increasing shudder afterward. My last 1981 Accord got so bad after coming down a local, curvy hill that I had to drive it straight to the shop afterward. The car braked fine right before coming down that hill. I should also note that these cars went through brake pads faster than any car I have owned since. Always replaced with factory parts.

80s and early 90s gm brakes were just as bad.

 

[begreen]

I'm glad to say that my GM Volt brakes may last longer than I do.

 

[bholler]

I'm glad to say that my GM Volt brakes may last longer than I do.

GM seems to have finally figured out how to properly size brakes. All of the 2000 or later gm stuff I have had has had pretty good brakes.

 

[peakbagger]

Mine usually start rusting on the outside edge and works its way into the turned area.

 

[saewoody]

I am confident my 2004 Suburban 2500 will out-brake my 2005 Nissan Sentra under any circumstances. Although I have to admit that it doesn’t have a stock set up. It had slotted and drilled rotors with the pads to match at all four wheels. However I have had 3 different Suburbans (01, 03, 04) all with stock brakes and they have all had good braking.

On the OPs original topic, I almost always run a good quality ceramic pad and have great results. The Wagners and Wearevers have always served me well. Raybestos too, and ACDelco.

 

[PaulOinMA]

Mine usually start rusting on the outside edge and works its way into the turned area.

Rust a problem here in MA, too. I replace rotors when I do pads since I have the wheel off, and they're cheap enough. I've been using OEM rotors.

I have coffee Friday mornings with the old guys from my wife's former church. There's a brake supply place here that it looks like the local garages use. They get their brake parts there.

Automotive Brake Warehouse Inc. Home

automotivebrakewarehouse.com

They have three locations in MA.

I've been there a couple of times, last time for a brake parts kit after I received the wrong one from an online place. I always see people picking up lots of brake parts and piles of items for pick-up by garages.

 

[PaulOinMA]

… Wagners …

The person that does great Ford service videos posted that Wagner ThermoQuiet is what Ford deaers use if they don't have Motorcraft available.

 

[SpaceBus]

Drilled and slotted rotors reduce pad surface area to reduce weight and heat. You have a less durable rotor that is harder on the pad. Unless you are racing, blanks are fine. Maybe if you drive up and down mountains all day slotted rotors, like Bholler uses, might be an advantage. Otherwise drilled rotors have much less strength than blanks.

 

[SpaceBus]

The person that does great Ford service videos posted that Wagner ThermoQuiet is what Ford deaers use if they don't have Motorcraft available.

Wagner makes a lot of OEM pads as well and probably makes them for Ford Motorcraft private label.

 

[SpaceBus]

Rust in the turned area also doesn't matter since it will get scrubbed by the pads. A bigger issue is the vanes getting clogged by rust. This is where the ceramic and zinc coated rotors do better. Another trick is to just paint them with high temp enamel when you put new pads and rotors on and just let the pads clean the rotor for you.

 

[bholler]

Drilled and slotted rotors reduce pad surface area to reduce weight and heat. You have a less durable rotor that is harder on the pad. Unless you are racing, blanks are fine. Maybe if you drive up and down mountains all day slotted rotors, like Bholler uses, might be an advantage. Otherwise drilled rotors have much less strength than blanks.

Yeah I don't like drilled

 

[fbelec]

i agree with not changing the rotors if not needed. my last E250 was a 96 i bought it with 14000 miles on it i never replace the rotors until 200,000 miles and i had to because it rusted so bad in between the front and back surface the vanes that the face came off of one side. i never had warped rotors on it and used to get 50,000 miles out of a set of pads. jake a friend of mine decided to change his rotors on his 2010 outback with drilled and slotted rotors for more braking power. he felt his 88 crown vic stopped faster than the outback. he said the slotted and drilled rotors stopped way better than the original but warped really fast and had to get rid of them. he's back to oem

 

[SpaceBus]

i agree with not changing the rotors if not needed. my last E250 was a 96 i bought it with 14000 miles on it i never replace the rotors until 200,000 miles and i had to because it rusted so bad in between the front and back surface the vanes that the face came off of one side. i never had warped rotors on it and used to get 50,000 miles out of a set of pads. jake a friend of mine decided to change his rotors on his 2010 outback with drilled and slotted rotors for more braking power. he felt his 88 crown vic stopped faster than the outback. he said the slotted and drilled rotors stopped way better than the original but warped really fast and had to get rid of them. he's back to oem

Sounds like poor quality rotors, also they would be worse at braking unless he got a racing pad.

 

[peakbagger]

The local shops will typically not pass rotors that are rotting from the outside edge inwards. That's what I have seen over the years when I have had to change rotors is the outer diameter of the friction surface is no longer shiny but has rust pits in it. Sometimes they can be turned to clean it up but as discussed earlier the cost for labor to turn the rotor exceeds the cost for new rotor. I was hoping the fancy coating on the outside edge would slow down this rot, IMO it doesn't.

I do remember years ago that some European cars possible BMWs and VWs were supposed to be turned while mounted on the car it required a special factory tool but the claim was it was better. Given the price they charged it was better for their bottom line but not so sure it was noticeable for most folks.

 

[vinny11950]

Jake, I just installed Wagner rotors from RockAuto, $25 each, with some type of coating. I went with their brake pads too. They are real smooth, and quiet, and stop really well. Around me, it is $50 to get an old rotor turned, so why do it when you can get 2 new ones for the same price. Napa also gets good reviews in the Jeep forums. I have had bad experiences with AZ rotors.

 

[SpaceBus]

The local shops will typically not pass rotors that are rotting from the outside edge inwards. That's what I have seen over the years when I have had to change rotors is the outer diameter of the friction surface is no longer shiny but has rust pits in it. Sometimes they can be turned to clean it up but as discussed earlier the cost for labor to turn the rotor exceeds the cost for new rotor. I was hoping the fancy coating on the outside edge would slow down this rot, IMO it doesn't.

I do remember years ago that some European cars possible BMWs and VWs were supposed to be turned while mounted on the car it required a special factory tool but the claim was it was better. Given the price they charged it was better for their bottom line but not so sure it was noticeable for most folks.

It ultimately is better for the car and longevity of the brake and wheel bearing systems, but for most folks it's probably a wash.

 

[firefighterjake]

Follow up: After checking out various sites, rotors and brakes, including many of the recommended brands I ended up going with a full set from PowerStop. I also opted for regular blanks vs. drilled/slotted as I was thinking blanks are fine for how my wife drives and I was a bit leery about how salt and grime might collect in the holes/slots. I checked out several brands and oddly enough found more than a few times that a brand or two would only offer rotors for the front or back, but not both, which seemed a bit odd.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Follow up: After checking out various sites, rotors and brakes, including many of the recommended brands I ended up going with a full set from PowerStop. I also opted for regular blanks vs. drilled/slotted as I was thinking blanks are fine for how my wife drives and I was a bit leery about how salt and grime might collect in the holes/slots. I checked out several brands and oddly enough found more than a few times that a brand or two would only offer rotors for the front or back, but not both, which seemed a bit odd.

Couldn't keep rotors on the wife's Civic from warping so I installed Powerstop drilled and slotted rotors and pads. The rotors are slightly noisier than blanks, but stopping is improved and after 18 months they're still smooth as silk.

 

[semipro]

I have the hardest time keeping shops from over-torquing lug nuts despite repeated requests.
I've actually taken videos of me using a large impact or breaker bar (trying) to get the lug nuts loose after shop service.
I now carry my torque wrench and socket with me when I pick up my vehicle so I can loosen and torque the lug nuts to spec before driving. I'm convinced that the over-torquing may result in warped rotors though I don't understand why.
I put this video on Youtube just so I could show shop owners what's going on. The lug nut torque spec for that car is 77 ft-lb. If the audio was better you'd hear the accompanying groaning/squeaking from the lug nuts.

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[bholler]

I have the hardest time keeping shops from over-torquing lug nuts despite repeated requests.
I've actually taken videos of me using a large impact or breaker bar (trying) to get the lug nuts loose after shop service.
I now carry my torque wrench and socket with me when I pick up my vehicle so I can loosen and torque the lug nuts to spec before driving. I'm convinced that the over-torquing may result in warped rotors though I don't understand why.
I put this video on Youtube just so I could show shop owners what's going on. The lug nut torque spec for that car is 77 ft-lb. If the audio was better you'd hear the accompanying groaning/squeaking from the lug nuts.

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I don't think over tourquing will do it. Uneven tourque will though

 

[Ashful]

Rotors are cheap (less money than the local garage charges to reface a set)...

Not always. List price on rotors for my car is $2268.00 if I buy them thru my dealer, although I have seen speed shops sell them as low as $1700 per set.

I also have issues with the local dealer over-torquing. After complaining two separate times to the service manager, and both times being told I must be mistaken, I brought my torque wrench and showed him. They had torqued the aluminum wheels on my truck to 160 - 165 lb.ft.! Spec was 80 - 100 lb.ft.

 

[lsucet]

Not always. List price on rotors for my car is $2268.00 if I buy them thru my dealer, although I have seen speed shops sell them as low as $1700 per set.

I also have issues with the local dealer over-torquing. After complaining two separate times to the service manager, and both times being told I must be mistaken, I brought my torque wrench and showed him. They had torqued the aluminum wheels on my truck to 160 - 165 lb.ft.! Spec was 80 - 100 lb.ft.

There is a lot to it, if you have a good torque wrench I will say okay. What was the last time it was calibrated? What brand and from where you got it? Now it is for sure that many places and technicians just use the impact gun and don't torque the lug nuts correctly. I will give you that.

 

[johneh]

In Ontario in order to get the Warranty for any woke done
with the wheels of. The rims have to be torqued to manufactures spec's
They also have to be retorqued after 100 K. Aluminum wheels are known to loosen off
and needs a retorque.

 

[SpaceBus]

They should at least be using torque limiters.

 

[bholler]

They should at least be using torque limiters.

Yeah should be. But many don't.