Questions about heat pump for my shop

[Ashful]

It should go through a breaker that is sized to the wire gauge of the surge protector.

I'm not sure what code dictates here, but as surge suppressors only take impulse loads and are completely contained within the breaker panel itself, there may not be the expected relation between wire gauge and required breaker on this device.

The typical momentary (magnetic) trip current on a residential breaker is something like 10,000 amps, and that value tends to be constant across a large range of breaker sizes (eg. 15A thru 50A), making its relation to wire gauge on a surge suppressor rather un-critical for a dedicated circuit contained within the panel. Of course, that's theory and not code, check your manual or code book.

 

[begreen]

You could be right, but I am uncomfortable with skinny wires attached to the main bus and definitely not before the main breaker. @fbelec would know.

 

[JRP3]

You could be right, but I am uncomfortable with skinny wires attached to the main bus and definitely not before the main breaker.

It goes after the main breaker

 

[JRP3]

Turns out it was the indoor circuit board, got a new one today from Mr Cool and I'm up and running again. Similar procedure as this but they sent the housing with the board unlike in this video, plus they skip a bunch of steps. Very annoying connections on the power wires, you back off the screws and really have to yank the wires to get them out, which can distort the crimped on tabs so they won't go back in unless you squeeze them back into shape, never seen anything like it before. The screws push on thin tab which pushes on the U shaped crimps on the wires.

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[Highbeam]

I contacted Ingram's and asked. They wrote that an optional surge protector is not required for warranty maintenance and that they don't even sell them. I quickly got the feeling that they think the devices are stupid.

 

[JRP3]

Could be but something took out my circuit board right after a power outage, and some new building codes require them. Also Ingram's doesn't handle Mr Cool warranty any more they just forward you to Mr. Cool.

 

[Highbeam]

Could be but something took out my circuit board right after a power outage, and some new building codes require them. Also Ingram's doesn't handle Mr Cool warranty any more they just forward you to Mr. Cool.

Surge protector can’t hurt. New electrical code does require them on the main panel. It’s just not something that will void your heat pump warranty if you don’t have it.

 

[EbS-P]

Surge protector can’t hurt. New electrical code does require them on the main panel. It’s just not something that will void your heat pump warranty if you don’t have it.

Most surge protection devices have some warranty. I wonder how you prove it was a surge that knocked out a protected appliance?

 

[Ashful]

Most surge protection devices have some warranty. I wonder how you prove it was a surge that knocked out a protected appliance?

Without a surge sufficient to show obvious external damage, proof is difficult. At least in the case of plug-in surge suppressors used for computers, the method of proof is typically inspection of the suppressor, which is typically done by the manufacturer. Not exactly a "disinterested third party".

 

[JRP3]

New electrical code does require them on the main panel. It’s just not something that will void your heat pump warranty if you don’t have it.

I recently saw some people on reddit claiming that some manufacturers are requiring one for warranty, I haven't done any investigating to verify.

 

[begreen]

I recently saw some people on reddit claiming that some manufacturers are requiring one for warranty, I haven't done any investigating to verify.

If it is so important then why aren't they building it into the equipment?

 

[JRP3]

Yes that does seem like the sensible answer, though from what I've seen a suppressor may be more effective closer to the main circuit feed since after market panel suppressors say to keep wiring as short as possible for effective protection.

 

[begreen]

What puzzles me is why our heat pump has dealt with all sorts of surges, dropouts, and outages for 17 yrs without an issue and no external surge protection. So have the electronics on our oven, refrig, washer, dryer, etc. survived. During that period I had two local friends that had control boards on their mini-splits get fried.

 

[JRP3]

Some have said the inverter controls are more sensitive to surges, maybe they are cheaping out on components or maybe there is something inherent to those circuit designs. Might be interensting to know if the failures are all from the same OEM, Midea seems to make many of the different brands, MrCool and Pioneer included as I understand it.

 

[peakbagger]

Surge protectors have limited lives, every hit them are exposed to reduces their life. Unless they are easy to replace, surge suppressors built into equipment means it fails faster. Take a look at power strips, the built in suppressors rarely last more then one hit, the good ones have an LED that shows the are still protected. The cheap ones keep working but the suppressor is no longer functional. Our mill complex got zapped bit time one, we had to buy cases of new power strips and throw way the same number.

 

[Ashful]

Surge protectors have limited lives, every hit them are exposed to reduces their life.

Exactly. But do the suppressors that snap into your breaker panel have some sort of indicator to let you know they've been compromised?

 

[JRP3]

Exactly. But do the suppressors that snap into your breaker panel have some sort of indicator to let you know they've been compromised?

Yes they have an LED that stays lit as long as the device is functioning.

 

[JRP3]

Surge protectors have limited lives, every hit them are exposed to reduces their life. Unless they are easy to replace, surge suppressors built into equipment means it fails faster.

Good point.

 

[Ashful]

Yes they have an LED that stays lit as long as the device is functioning.

I'd wonder if this LED just indicates it's receiving power, or if there's actually on-board diagnostics sufficient to detect diminished performance.

 

[JRP3]

I'd wonder if this LED just indicates it's receiving power, or if there's actually on-board diagnostics sufficient to detect diminished performance.

Mine says if the light is out replace it. I'd say it's an either or proposition, either it's working or it's dead.

 

[EbS-P]

What puzzles me is why our heat pump has dealt with all sorts of surges, dropouts, and outages for 17 yrs without an issue and no external surge protection. So have the electronics on our oven, refrig, washer, dryer, etc. survived. During that period I had two local friends that had control boards on their mini-splits get fried.

I wonder how many different units share a common or nearly common board. The power delivery side of the electronics is probably very similar unit to unit and when boards go out to bid I wonder how many different suppliers there are and how different the designs are.

The the non inverter compressors are just direct connectives to the L1 and L2. The control board I’m guessing runns of a 24v transformer. So I don’t see why the mini split boards would be different unless they don’t use a transformer.

 

[gthomas785]

I don’t see why the mini split boards would be different unless they don’t use a transformer.

My mini splits use a switched mode power supply, complete with rectifier diodes that could easily be blown out by a power surge.

 

[JRP3]

Some things I've found out about operating these units. The remote has "turbo mode" which helps the unit reach temperature faster and seems to make a real difference when it's colder out. (Probably for cooling as well). However "turbo mode" does not seem to be an option when using the app. Also when using the app temperature sensing is done by the head unit and since that is the heat source it causes the unit to shut off sooner. When using the remote it uses the sensor in the remote itself which can be more indicative of general room temperature and seems to provide a better experience. The remote must have line of site to the head unit.

 

[maple1]

Some things I've found out about operating these units. The remote has "turbo mode" which helps the unit reach temperature faster and seems to make a real difference when it's colder out. (Probably for cooling as well). However "turbo mode" does not seem to be an option when using the app. Also when using the app temperature sensing is done by the head unit and since that is the heat source it causes the unit to shut off sooner. When using the remote it uses the sensor in the remote itself which can be more indicative of general room temperature and seems to provide a better experience. The remote must have line of site to the head unit.

Ours don't sense temp at the remote. They do it at the head. In the incoming (return) air area. Seems to work OK.

 

[JRP3]

Ours don't sense temp at the remote. They do it at the head. In the incoming (return) air area. Seems to work OK.

Does yours have the "Follow me" function on the remote?